Nick Rolovich

[Autzenoise]

Couldn't agree more Snoop.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[dd10snoop28]

Kyrie Irving
Jonathan Isaac
Bradley Beal
Andrew Wiggins

A few of the names of NBA players that will not comply with the jab mandate set in place in certain cities and/or by certain NBA teams. Will be interesting to see how the NBA/owners/GM's/coaches/players react to this. Media is going nuts so far.

My first reaction is good for these NBA players. They may not know it, but they are shining a light on the 100million of people who reject the notion that a jab is required to operate in a society. Media/politicians should be representing the people, but they have done the opposite and so it is left up to athletes to generate the media attention necessary to represent the voiceless.

Obviously it would be nice to have processionals in medicine/history/politics talk about the implications of forced mandates but we know that the media will not do this.

[greenyellow]

That list of NBA players is not exactly a who's who of smart players. They've said and done some rather stupid things that throws their credibility out the window in this circumstance. I don't get all this hesitancy with getting a vaccine that has proven it can keep people safely out of the hospital and isn't causing all these far-out side effects that people are scaring others with.

[lukeyrid13]

^ I agree with both of the last 2 points

1. People should make decisions for themselves and not be ostracized / segregated

2. The vaccine is pretty dang innocuous and safe; there shouldn't be a massive fear of it

[dd10snoop28]

That list of NBA players is not exactly a who's who of smart players. They've said and done some rather stupid things that throws their credibility out the window in this circumstance. I don't get all this hesitancy with getting a vaccine that has proven it can keep people safely out of the hospital and isn't causing all these far-out side effects that people are scaring others with.

Irving yes. I've not heard anything about the others but I'm sure there will be a concerted effort to delegitimize them as soon as possible (as with anyone who raises any objections whatsoever). Obviously they are athletes which means there is a good chance that the platform outsizes their depth of knowledge, but they are representing 100s of millions of people nonetheless.

However, whether it is safe or not is besides the point. I think you are focusing on the wrong thing. The larger and more worrisome trend is the exclusion of non-vaccinated people from society. Essentially, they are taking a stand against authoritarianism, and that is commendable.


In regards to risk assessment of the vaccine, here are a couple of thoughts:
Nobody has argued that the virus has a rate of death that is less than the seasonal flu for those that are not old, diabetes, or overweight. Basically, the average human being is no more at risk at dying from getting the virus than other types of flus. That said, just like everyone doesn't need a flu shut to operate in society; they don't need a experimental therapeutic. The only scenario where there might have been a legitimate case to get a jab for risk assessment purposes would be to reduce the spread. We were told it would reduce spread/cases by ~90% which was not true. Most virologists knew that this virus was highly mutatable and that a vaccine would not accomplished what is was billed to do. In fact, Israel is showing higher case rates for the vaccinated. So with this narrative dispelled, what is the motivation to getting an expiremntal therapeutic at this point if you are the average human being? The only remaining logic is to prevent hospitalization/death. OK, great. That means we arrive back at the risk for the regular person in the world. What is their risk? This takes us back to the fatality rate. That is, the normal citizen is not at an abornmal risk of dying from covid-19 compared to other flu's. Therefore, the only legitimate case would be to vaccinate the elderly, fat, and diabetic and everyone else should resume normal activity.

[woundedknees]

At 68, you have just described me pretty well (Although I am not what most people would consider "fat")... The flip side is I had the virus rather early in the process, and given my personal history, my physician never pushed the vaccine hard.

The only reason I got it was due to the fact that had I needed to travel, such as when my son passed away in June while on a visit with his daughters in Tennessee, I would have been barred from public transport.

Coercion is NOT a legitimate way for our government to achieve their goals.

[dd10snoop28]

That list of NBA players is not exactly a who's who of smart players. They've said and done some rather stupid things that throws their credibility out the window in this circumstance. I don't get all this hesitancy with getting a vaccine that has proven it can keep people safely out of the hospital and isn't causing all these far-out side effects that people are scaring others with.

I just watched the interviews of Bradley Beal and Jonathan Isaac. Both gave measured, logical, and evidence-based responses to the questions they were asked regarding their reasons for not wanting to be forced to get the vaccine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MefFhRBrc0w

Watch and decide for yourself.

[mrpd21]

The manufacturers are not allowed to be sued or held liable for any of the side effects from the shots. Therefore, considering that, nobody should be forced to get the shot if they don't want it. It's nonsensical to force it.

You can still get Covid (the last 20 or so people I personally know that have contracted it all got their Covid shots. Unvaccinated still get sick and die so I am not saying this is 100% of the time, but the cases I know of so far are indeed 100% on the side of the vaccinated over the last 2 months. Plus one friend has had both blood clots and liver failure after the J&J...liver failure unrelated to alcohol per their Dr.; another just got out of the ICU with clotting) as well transmit it to others. So why make everyone get the shot if there are no repeatable and consistent measurables of positive success at this point? Should be a personal choice.

You may say well it reduces the effects and at least I don't get as sick. How do you know that, who told you that, and where's the data that analytically validates that? Before any vax was available there were apparently thousands upon thousands of asymptomatic Covid positive people...can't get much better than zero symptoms.

I saw the CDC recently found that college football games weren't superspreader events. You're telling me that 60-110k maskless, non-socially distanced people aren't a threat to spread Covid? Sounds like states and stadiums that refuse to comply with such extreme measures as states like Oregon just made their own science.

[frogsnouts]

The manufacturers are not allowed to be sued or held liable for any of the side effects from the shots. Therefore, considering that, nobody should be forced to get the shot if they don't want it. It's nonsensical to force it.

You can still get Covid (the last 20 or so people I personally know that have contracted it all got their Covid shots. Unvaccinated still get sick and die so I am not saying this is 100% of the time, but the cases I know of so far are indeed 100% on the side of the vaccinated over the last 2 months. Plus one friend has had both blood clots and liver failure after the J&J...liver failure unrelated to alcohol per their Dr.; another just got out of the ICU with clotting) as well transmit it to others. So why make everyone get the shot if there are no repeatable and consistent measurables of positive success at this point? Should be a personal choice.

You may say well it reduces the effects and at least I don't get as sick. How do you know that, who told you that, and where's the data that analytically validates that? Before any vax was available there were apparently thousands upon thousands of asymptomatic Covid positive people...can't get much better than zero symptoms.

I saw the CDC recently found that college football games weren't superspreader events. You're telling me that 60-110k maskless, non-socially distanced people aren't a threat to spread Covid? Sounds like states and stadiums that refuse to comply with such extreme measures as states like Oregon just made their own science.

No repeatable and consistent measurables of positive success at this point? Have you looked at the data? 80% of the deaths in Oregon from August came from the <25% of the adult population that isn't vaccinated fully. That data carries to every other state in the country. You don't have to take it, you can make that personal choice, but let's not pretend like it hasn't been proven to work fantastically for those who have chosen to get it. You can argue symptoms in the future, whatever, but give the vaccine the credit it's due in that it does reduce or eliminate symptoms and risk of hospitalization/death in a vast majority of cases.

You also have to give credit to Delta and other strains that have proven more dangerous than the initial strain of COVID from 2020. Yes there were likely millions who contracted the disease and had no negative effects, but that number appears to be lower for the unvaccinated who contract the latest variants (and yes there are still plenty of people who won't experience symptoms from Delta and the other variants).

[mrpd21]

The manufacturers are not allowed to be sued or held liable for any of the side effects from the shots. Therefore, considering that, nobody should be forced to get the shot if they don't want it. It's nonsensical to force it.

You can still get Covid (the last 20 or so people I personally know that have contracted it all got their Covid shots. Unvaccinated still get sick and die so I am not saying this is 100% of the time, but the cases I know of so far are indeed 100% on the side of the vaccinated over the last 2 months. Plus one friend has had both blood clots and liver failure after the J&J...liver failure unrelated to alcohol per their Dr.; another just got out of the ICU with clotting) as well transmit it to others. So why make everyone get the shot if there are no repeatable and consistent measurables of positive success at this point? Should be a personal choice.

You may say well it reduces the effects and at least I don't get as sick. How do you know that, who told you that, and where's the data that analytically validates that? Before any vax was available there were apparently thousands upon thousands of asymptomatic Covid positive people...can't get much better than zero symptoms.

I saw the CDC recently found that college football games weren't superspreader events. You're telling me that 60-110k maskless, non-socially distanced people aren't a threat to spread Covid? Sounds like states and stadiums that refuse to comply with such extreme measures as states like Oregon just made their own science.

No repeatable and consistent measurables of positive success at this point? Have you looked at the data? 80% of the deaths in Oregon from August came from the <25% of the adult population that isn't vaccinated fully. That data carries to every other state in the country. You don't have to take it, you can make that personal choice, but let's not pretend like it hasn't been proven to work fantastically for those who have chosen to get it. You can argue symptoms in the future, whatever, but give the vaccine the credit it's due in that it does reduce or eliminate symptoms and risk of hospitalization/death in a vast majority of cases.

You also have to give credit to Delta and other strains that have proven more dangerous than the initial strain of COVID from 2020. Yes there were likely millions who contracted the disease and had no negative effects, but that number appears to be lower for the unvaccinated who contract the latest variants (and yes there are still plenty of people who won't experience symptoms from Delta and the other variants).

You fail to recognize that they are counting people as unvaxed up to 14 days after receiving the 2nd shot, which is highly disingenuous IMO. I know of at least 5 people that tested Covid positive (with symptoms) within around the first few days to a week after the second shot, therefore they would be counted as unvaccinated. Also, there is that pesky comorbidity variable that you need to have factored in to determine whether the cause of death was actually the virus or the underlying factors. Scaring the majority populous with Covid deaths of many who are either incredibly unhealthy or in the 70-90 yr old range is fear porn at best. Finally let's analyze other nations that are more vaccinated than the US, especially those that began administering doses before the US. Israel and Singapore are viable test cases; check out the state of Uttar Pradesh in India as a comparative analysis.

Finally, there are whistleblowers beginning to emerge from the medical field. There is, in at least some cases, intentional suppression of reporting VAERS data in many institutions. Your information is overly trusting of the parameters and that those who are campaigning for the shots (and what will now be scheduled boosters) are looking out for your best interests, though they are making $$ hand over fist.

I'll also say it's debatable where these variants originate from. This is an entirely separate conversation but it can be argued that the mrna creates spike proteins that spawn variants of the SARS-COV-2 virus. I don't have enough data and research myself to conclude or assume either way, however, it's worth looking into.

I appreciate your response but your information and data are arguably arbitrary. I have looked at the data, I have actually predicted how this last year or so would go with pretty fair accuracy to family and friends. Much of this you could see a mile away if you weren't solely getting news from major networks or social media. Have you researched the fact that Flu disappeared and wasn't even counted in places like Australia for the past year to year and a half? The Covid reporting results are not even quantitative as the data provided is highly suspicious and unreliable.

Bottom line is death is a part of life. If we were so worried about ingredients in food, poverty and world hunger, exercise, smoking, drinking, overall health in general as we were Covid...this world would be a much better place. The fact the Gov suddenly cares about you and your neighbor is somewhat laughable to me. We'd be tackling so much more than this "pandemic" if that were so the case.

Regardless we are Duck fans. In the end it's Go Ducks and screw everything else!

[dd10snoop28]

UPDATE from NBA regarding the despised "unvaccinated":

-The second-class players will be subject to testing on any day that involves basketball activities or travel and can be tested multiple times on game days.
-The second-class players must quarantine if they come into close contact with someone who tests positive for the virus.
-NBA will not pay players for games missed
-Second-class players will not be able to eat meals with the team, nor be in the locker room at the same time

All in the name of "saving lives" even though most of the things mentioned above are not scientific in the least.

You remember when the Germans put "charity" in French on the sides of the trains that they used to transport Jews out of France? Master-marketing. Hope we do better than the French.

[UOducksTK1]

UPDATE from NBA regarding the despised "unvaccinated":

-The second-class players will be subject to testing on any day that involves basketball activities or travel and can be tested multiple times on game days.
-The second-class players must quarantine if they come into close contact with someone who tests positive for the virus.
-NBA will not pay players for games missed
-Second-class players will not be able to eat meals with the team, nor be in the locker room at the same time

All in the name of "saving lives" even though most of the things mentioned above are not scientific in the least.

You remember when the Germans put "charity" in French on the sides of the trains that they used to transport Jews out of France? Master-marketing. Hope we do better than the French.

The last two are insane.

[Duck07]

As other people have rightly noted online about this, a person with a negative covid test is safer than a vaccinated person without one so these NBA rules are absurd, especially when nobody has suggested a need for 100% herd immunity.

IF this was really about safety, they'd still be doing daily tests on everyone and that would be the litmus.

[UOducksTK1]

I haven’t watched NBA or NFL in two years and don’t plan on watching ever again. They are treating certain humans like animals, it’s really messed up. Until they practice basic human rights for players like Johnathan Isaac and Andrew Wiggins, see ya!

[dthomas=ddixon]

We’ve absolutely lost the plot as a country. While I disagree with snoops case for it being a modern day equivalent of racial segregation, the derogatory rhetoric and punitive measures directed at the unvaccinated is disturbing, and so transparently mean-spirited.

I’m vaccinated, and have encouraged any of my friends or family that are worried about getting Covid to get the jab, but the belief of the über pro-vax crowd that the vaccine is a cure all but also the unvaccinated are putting us all at risk is some serious cognitive dissonance. At this point, the vaccine is readily available to anyone who wants it so anyone without it has made a decision to take a calculated risk, which is their right. The data shows (obviously it could be being manipulated but I don’t have evidence of that at the moment), as well as my personal experience, that it’s almost entirely the unvaccinated who are being hospitalized. I know quite a few people who’ve been hospitalized over the last few months and none were vaccinated. Those who were vaccinated and got Covid had very minor cases. So while it kills be to see my friends ending up in ICU when they could’ve just gotten vaccinated, it’s their right to make that choice. And I’m willing to fight and die for those rights to be maintained.


And seeing people like pez, who seem to be otherwise good-faith people, getting sucked into the vitriolic, resentful attitude towards their fellow citizens is especially frightening. I’m trying to stay away from drawing parallels to the extreme examples like Nazi Germany or racial segregation but it’s not hard to see how otherwise good people can be turned against their fellow human and ultimately dehumanize them.