Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

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Alan
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by Alan »

it's was a dumb stunt made by a dumb kid, throw in the words and possibility it was a dumb kid who feels some entitlement doing a dumb things. Some consequence should be enforced but its a long ways from being a serious offense in comparison to some stunts that football players pull.....and yes that makes it okay...give him a game to sit. I think the person who posted this said it best.


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GoDucksIn09
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by GoDucksIn09 »

I think it depends on his attitude about the incident. If he is truly remorseful then 1 or 2 games is enough. If he thinks since he is an athlete that he is entitled and law enforcement is beneath him then 6 games be ok. I don't know the kid. I think the university needs to find out what he is telling his friends and make some assessment of penalty then. In our society we seen lot of rich people or actors or athletes think they are above the law. I hope this kid does not think that.
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by ncduck »

If he has to miss any game time, it should be the first quarter against a cupcake + a nice conversation about responsibility. This was an act non-violent stupidity with no damage to any property. Start small with punishment and give yourself room to maneuver. People can learn tough lessons without getting an overly harsh punishment.

Generally, kids just need a conversation to get a reality check. Let them know that next time the punishment will be more severe. Have the player address the team to explain the selfish act and how selfish acts can affect the team.
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by Duck07 »

Tray Dub wrote: I'm pretty sure John Locke believed in the need for taxes (which is essentially what metered parking is) and punishments for failure to pay them.

If you've got a better way to deal with people who refuse to feed the meters, I'm all ears. But in the meantime, invoking Enlightenment-era political philosophy in a conversation about parking tickets seems like the real absurdity.
Of course its absurd, my entire post was absurd :lol: however if you hold an anachronistic view of the Social Contract then ah I'm just going to pass.
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pezsez1
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by pezsez1 »

You need to break a few laws in your life and live a little Pez.
And who says I haven't? If you don't get caught, then what are you doing wrong?

But once you get caught, you'd better man up and face the music -- not rip the boot off your car and move along like there won't be consequences.
Willie Taggart is a dick.
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DuckMastaFunk
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by DuckMastaFunk »

pezsez1 wrote:
I think you're missing my point here.
You're absolutely right. It probably happened when you completely changed your point in between those two posts. :lol:
pezsez1 wrote:
But once you get caught, you'd better man up and face the music -- not rip the boot off your car and move along like there won't be consequences.
You're really going all in on this "taking a boot off your car is a horrendous crime" thing. I still think it's dumb, short-sighted and fairly ghetto/redneck but mostly just a kid being stupid. Like I said before, agree to disagree.
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by pezsez1 »

You're absolutely right. It probably happened when you completely changed your point in between those two posts.
No, you just missed the point. That's not entirely your fault, though -- I didn't expect you to take what I said so literally. Had I known anyone would do that, I'd have clarified earlier that evading police is, obviously, a more serious crime than ripping a parking boot off your car.
You're really going all in on this "taking a boot off your car is a horrendous crime" thing.
No, no, no. I clarified in my last post that the issue here isn't this being "a horrendous crime." Rather, it's a horrendous disrespecting of law enforcement. Please tell me you see the difference?
Like I said before, agree to disagree.
You can't actually disagree if you keep missing the point. Otherwise, you're arbitrarily disagreeing with an argument that nobody is making.

That said, if you understand my point more clearly now, then yes -- I'm happy to agree to disagree. What we think on this doesn't matter anyway. 8-)
Willie Taggart is a dick.
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Phalanx
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by Phalanx »

Tray Dub wrote:
Duck07 wrote:
You need to break a few laws in your life and live a little Pez. I think it's absurd that we can place a literal ball and chain on someone's property over a parking violation. That's a violation of the Social Contract in my eyes.
I'm pretty sure John Locke believed in the need for taxes (which is essentially what metered parking is) and punishments for failure to pay them.

If you've got a better way to deal with people who refuse to feed the meters, I'm all ears. But in the meantime, invoking Enlightenment-era political philosophy in a conversation about parking tickets seems like the real absurdity.
It may be the circles I hang out in, but I'm pretty sure the phrase 'Social Contract' has been used a time or two since the Enlightenment. It's a bit like saying someone is being Medieval for discussing the use of eating utensils.
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by Tray Dub »

Phalanx wrote:
Tray Dub wrote:
Duck07 wrote:
You need to break a few laws in your life and live a little Pez. I think it's absurd that we can place a literal ball and chain on someone's property over a parking violation. That's a violation of the Social Contract in my eyes.
I'm pretty sure John Locke believed in the need for taxes (which is essentially what metered parking is) and punishments for failure to pay them.

If you've got a better way to deal with people who refuse to feed the meters, I'm all ears. But in the meantime, invoking Enlightenment-era political philosophy in a conversation about parking tickets seems like the real absurdity.
It may be the circles I hang out in, but I'm pretty sure the phrase 'Social Contract' has been used a time or two since the Enlightenment. It's a bit like saying someone is being Medieval for discussing the use of eating utensils.
The notion of the social contract comes from the Enlightenment. That's why I described it as "Enlightenment-era." You're making a leap to saying I called *him* anything.
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Phalanx
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by Phalanx »

Tray Dub wrote:
Phalanx wrote:
Tray Dub wrote:
Duck07 wrote:
You need to break a few laws in your life and live a little Pez. I think it's absurd that we can place a literal ball and chain on someone's property over a parking violation. That's a violation of the Social Contract in my eyes.
I'm pretty sure John Locke believed in the need for taxes (which is essentially what metered parking is) and punishments for failure to pay them.

If you've got a better way to deal with people who refuse to feed the meters, I'm all ears. But in the meantime, invoking Enlightenment-era political philosophy in a conversation about parking tickets seems like the real absurdity.
It may be the circles I hang out in, but I'm pretty sure the phrase 'Social Contract' has been used a time or two since the Enlightenment. It's a bit like saying someone is being Medieval for discussing the use of eating utensils.
The notion of the social contract comes from the Enlightenment. That's why I described it as "Enlightenment-era." You're making a leap to saying I called *him* anything.
Lots of things come from the Enlightenment. The phrase 'United States of America' comes from the Enlightenment. Does that mean that people are being absurd if they use that phrase today? The phrase 'Social Contract' is still in use today. It didn't stay in the Enlightenment. It isn't absurd to bring it up in a conversation about parking tickets or any other law.

a few example of of non-Enlightenment usage of the phrase:

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2 ... -contract/

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... ct/282511/

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/opin ... tract.html
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by Tray Dub »

Phalanx wrote:
Tray Dub wrote:
Phalanx wrote:
Tray Dub wrote:
Duck07 wrote:
You need to break a few laws in your life and live a little Pez. I think it's absurd that we can place a literal ball and chain on someone's property over a parking violation. That's a violation of the Social Contract in my eyes.
I'm pretty sure John Locke believed in the need for taxes (which is essentially what metered parking is) and punishments for failure to pay them.

If you've got a better way to deal with people who refuse to feed the meters, I'm all ears. But in the meantime, invoking Enlightenment-era political philosophy in a conversation about parking tickets seems like the real absurdity.
It may be the circles I hang out in, but I'm pretty sure the phrase 'Social Contract' has been used a time or two since the Enlightenment. It's a bit like saying someone is being Medieval for discussing the use of eating utensils.
The notion of the social contract comes from the Enlightenment. That's why I described it as "Enlightenment-era." You're making a leap to saying I called *him* anything.
Lots of things come from the Enlightenment. The phrase 'United States of America' comes from the Enlightenment. Does that mean that people are being absurd if they use that phrase today? The phrase 'Social Contract' is still in use today. It didn't stay in the Enlightenment. It isn't absurd to bring it up in a conversation about parking tickets or any other law.

a few example of of non-Enlightenment usage of the phrase:

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2 ... -contract/

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... ct/282511/

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/opin ... tract.html
Obviously the phrase is still in use today. That doesn't make it any less silly to invoke highfalutin political philosophy to justify yanking off a parking boot when you fail to pay your tickets. You don't need to read the Second Treatise on Government to know how dumb it is to think you're legally or morally entitled to not pay parking meters. This is common sense. (And no, I don't mean the Thomas Paine version.)
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Phalanx
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by Phalanx »

Tray Dub wrote:
Obviously the phrase is still in use today. That doesn't make it any less silly to invoke highfalutin political philosophy to justify yanking off a parking boot when you fail to pay your tickets. You don't need to read the Second Treatise on Government to know how dumb it is to think you're legally or morally entitled to not pay parking meters. This is common sense. (And no, I don't mean the Thomas Paine version.)
I disagree that the application of a parking boot so that people can't drive to and from their job as punishment for not being able to afford to pay parking tickets is automatically 'common sense'. During the enlightenment, Dr. Samuel Johnson used to argue how ridiculous it was to put someone who couldn't pay their debts in debtor's prison where they had no ability to earn the money to pay the debts off. So maybe you are right that this sort of thinking comes from the Enlightenment. It still makes sense to me, however. In any case, you should be aware that there are others in the world who don't necessarily agree with various 'solutions' that the government has constructed to raise revenue, and they don't always view them as 'common sense'.

As I said before, the phrase 'Social Contract' is used fairly often in my circle, and nobody considers it highfalutin. It just depends on what one is accustomed to discussing.
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Tray Dub
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by Tray Dub »

Phalanx wrote:
Tray Dub wrote:
Obviously the phrase is still in use today. That doesn't make it any less silly to invoke highfalutin political philosophy to justify yanking off a parking boot when you fail to pay your tickets. You don't need to read the Second Treatise on Government to know how dumb it is to think you're legally or morally entitled to not pay parking meters. This is common sense. (And no, I don't mean the Thomas Paine version.)
I disagree that the application of a parking boot so that people can't drive to and from their job as punishment for not being able to afford to pay parking tickets is automatically 'common sense'. During the enlightenment, Dr. Samuel Johnson used to argue how ridiculous it was to put someone who couldn't pay their debts in debtor's prison where they had no ability to earn the money to pay the debts off. So maybe you are right that this sort of thinking comes from the Enlightenment. It still makes sense to me, however. In any case, you should be aware that there are others in the world who don't necessarily agree with various 'solutions' that the government has constructed to raise revenue, and they don't always view them as 'common sense'.

As I said before, the phrase 'Social Contract' is used fairly often in my circle, and nobody considers it highfalutin. It just depends on what one is accustomed to discussing.
So, first, even if you don't like the policy, it's still common sense that you have to follow laws or face the consequences. That's completely divorced from the question of parking boots, and that much I do consider common sense.

As for the policy itself, I understand your opposition to debtors' prisons and can see the analogy. But, two things. First, it costs a couple dollars to pay for parking on campus. I just do not believe that any but a very small number of people can't pay that much. There's also two-hour parking on lots of nearby side streets. And then even if you do get a parking ticket, it's usually like $16 bucks (I speak from experience). So I just doubt that the issue is frequently being so poor that you can't afford to pay for parking, or even to pay the tickets. I think it's usually just not wanting to deal with it. Second, I wonder what you'd propose instead of giving people tickets, and if they repeatedly refuse to pay them applying a boot. Maybe you think that all parking should always be free. If not, I'm curious how you think meter non-payment should be handled. If you think it's unethical to impose fines, okay, but how do you get people to feed the meter?
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by Duck07 »

Tray Dub wrote:That doesn't make it any less silly to invoke highfalutin political philosophy to justify yanking off a parking boot when you fail to pay your tickets.
Fine, I'll jump back in but just for this! Obviously you're not a fan of Jerry Rubin or Abbie Hoffman either! :lol:
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Re: Oregon linebacker arrested = Fotu Leiato

Post by Tray Dub »

Duck07 wrote:
Tray Dub wrote:That doesn't make it any less silly to invoke highfalutin political philosophy to justify yanking off a parking boot when you fail to pay your tickets.
Fine, I'll jump back in but just for this! Obviously you're not a fan of Jerry Rubin or Abbie Hoffman either! :lol:
I'm not, but I do think the conversation is a bit different when you're talking about civil disobedience versus ordinary lawbreaking. As far as I know Fotu wasn't trying to start a revolution, though I s'pose you never know with college kids.
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