Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

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Phenom
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Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by Phenom »

I said it in the game thread and this is a great break down of it. Playcalling is not an issue...on offense.

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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

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Ok, that convinced me, nothing about what we do on offense is PREDICTABLE or anything and that sure doesn't lead to those problems pointed out. While I agree that the playcalling isn't always the problem because so much of our stuff is predictable it makes it very easy for a defense to guess what we're doing and go for the big play which is why we've been outscored 56 to 0 in our last 3 road games before scoring.
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

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Duck07 wrote:Ok, that convinced me, nothing about what we do on offense is PREDICTABLE or anything and that sure doesn't lead to those problems pointed out. While I agree that the playcalling isn't always the problem because so much of our stuff is predictable it makes it very easy for a defense to guess what we're doing and go for the big play which is why we've been outscored 56 to 0 in our last 3 road games before scoring.
So? Chip was predictable. It's all about execution and for different reasons we're not executing.
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by Duck07 »

Phenom wrote:
Duck07 wrote:Ok, that convinced me, nothing about what we do on offense is PREDICTABLE or anything and that sure doesn't lead to those problems pointed out. While I agree that the playcalling isn't always the problem because so much of our stuff is predictable it makes it very easy for a defense to guess what we're doing and go for the big play which is why we've been outscored 56 to 0 in our last 3 road games before scoring.
So? Chip was predictable. It's all about execution and for different reasons we're not executing.
Perhaps one of the reasons we're not executing is because they know what we're going to call. Nothing we do tends to build or set anything up unlike the example you want to rely on.

If the players can't run what you're calling, then it absolutely is the problem.
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Duckenstein
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by Duckenstein »

I generally agree with this.

Lack of talent and depth, combined with normal wear and tear.

But I do think the offensive coaching is still learning about what works and what doesn't.

We haven't had an answer to basic defensive calls, like for example with stacking the box with smaller, quicker players.

I get that we don't have the personnel, but the coaches aren't seasoned enough to have quick gameday adjustments like some staffs do.
Phenom wrote:I said it in the game thread and this is a great break down of it. Playcalling is not an issue...on offense.

https://www.addictedtoquack.com/2018/11 ... 11-at-utah
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Duckenstein
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by Duckenstein »

I think it looks like the defense knows what we're going to do because the have scouted:

1 how bad our WRs are
2 how bad our OL is
3 how mediocre our RBs are

We are limited by personnel
Duck07 wrote:
Phenom wrote:
Duck07 wrote:Ok, that convinced me, nothing about what we do on offense is PREDICTABLE or anything and that sure doesn't lead to those problems pointed out. While I agree that the playcalling isn't always the problem because so much of our stuff is predictable it makes it very easy for a defense to guess what we're doing and go for the big play which is why we've been outscored 56 to 0 in our last 3 road games before scoring.
So? Chip was predictable. It's all about execution and for different reasons we're not executing.
Perhaps one of the reasons we're not executing is because they know what we're going to call. Nothing we do tends to build or set anything up unlike the example you want to rely on.

If the players can't run what you're calling, then it absolutely is the problem.
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

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Duckenstein wrote:I think it looks like the defense knows what we're going to do because the have scouted:

1 how bad our WRs are
2 how bad our OL is
3 how mediocre our RBs are

We are limited by personnel
and I haven't discounted those things either but what we do consistently on offense is the definition of insanity: doing the same thing repeatedly while expecting a different result. Put Sewell back in and sure, things look better because we can just over-power someone on a play but that doesn't work against the top teams who also have guys who can push back.

Very few coaches on this staff are capable of out-thinking their opponents; it's all about brawn. Further, the starters are not as bad as they are being made out to be when they are constantly in bad spots. No OL is ever going to win all these battles we constantly put them in. We think stacking the box to run against a stacked box is a great idea FFS.
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by Duckenstein »

I don't disagree

I think it's a young, inexperienced staff that doesn't have the seasoning to make up for a lack of talent and depth
Duck07 wrote:
Duckenstein wrote:I think it looks like the defense knows what we're going to do because the have scouted:

1 how bad our WRs are
2 how bad our OL is
3 how mediocre our RBs are

We are limited by personnel
and I haven't discounted those things either but what we do consistently on offense is the definition of insanity: doing the same thing repeatedly while expecting a different result. Put Sewell back in and sure, things look better because we can just over-power someone on a play but that doesn't work against the top teams who also have guys who can push back.

Very few coaches on this staff are capable of out-thinking their opponents; it's all about brawn. Further, the starters are not as bad as they are being made out to be when they are constantly in bad spots. No OL is ever going to win all these battles we constantly put them in. We think stacking the box to run against a stacked box is a great idea FFS.
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by Duck07 »

Duckenstein wrote:I don't disagree

I think it's a young, inexperienced staff that doesn't have the seasoning to make up for a lack of talent and depth
Here-in lies the problem: how much of a leash does Cristobal give to his OC when there is no cohesion with what we do?
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by GrandpaDuck »

Duck07 wrote:
Duckenstein wrote:I think it looks like the defense knows what we're going to do because the have scouted:

1 how bad our WRs are
2 how bad our OL is
3 how mediocre our RBs are

We are limited by personnel
and I haven't discounted those things either but what we do consistently on offense is the definition of insanity: doing the same thing repeatedly while expecting a different result. Put Sewell back in and sure, things look better because we can just over-power someone on a play but that doesn't work against the top teams who also have guys who can push back.

Very few coaches on this staff are capable of out-thinking their opponents; it's all about brawn. Further, the starters are not as bad as they are being made out to be when they are constantly in bad spots. No OL is ever going to win all these battles we constantly put them in. We think stacking the box to run against a stacked box is a great idea FFS.
Thank you, 07.

Teams that are stuffing Oregon, are throwing away gap integrity and contain, they are penetrating and pinching everything to the middle. By Oregon's formation the safeties are in the middle without cheating to be there. Vastly undersized, untalented and poor defenses like San Jose St and Arizona are being made into the '84 Bears by simply over committing to the center of the field and daring Oregon to run plays to the edge that have been removed from the playbook.
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by GoDucksIn09 »

2 statistics that should remove all doubt about the offensive play calling. One being outscored 56-0 before scoring a single point on the road the last 3 road games. The second is scoring a whopping 15 points in the last 3 road games the first half. Those two statistics are going to mean losing 99% of the road games. It is a no brainer. The offense has no creativity and everybody knows they are going to run it right up the middle on first and probably second down then pass to Mitchell on 3rd down. I never played a single down of football in hs or college but I know if stack the box and double or triple team Mitchell will most likely stop the Oregon offense. These DC's that get paid
6 figures certainly know it and yet Oregon does not see that they know it. They continue doing the same thing. You can blame it on injuries or lack of skill players. The problem is as coaches you play to your strength or adapt to what defenses are doing. Chip Kelly would see what a defense is doing and attack them at their weakness. Arroyo sees what they are doing and still runs the same play putting us in 3rd and long almost every 3rd down. It is long past the time of defending Arroyo. He needs to be gone at the end of the year. The statistics don't lie. No creativity and being so blatantly predictable a person with 0 hs or college game playing can see it means the coaches on opposing teams can see it. Arroyo needs to go period. He can go coach for Helfrich if he gets another head coaching job.
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by Duckenstein »

I'm not going to say that arroyo is amazing

In fact, the vanilla playcalling and lack of scoring speaks to his mediocrity

However, I don't think you can lay the problems at his feet

This is fundamentally a talent and depth issue. Arroyo doesn't have WRs that can gain separation or catch the ball, he doesn't have an OL that can run or pass block, he doesn't have good RBs.

I bet there is a good reason to run the scheme they are running, and to call the plays they are running

Now—if they had a genius level OC like Chip he might be able to overcome some of these personnel issues. Arroyo is clearly not a genius level OC, but it's not like all of this is his fault either

This team was decimated by helfrich and it will take a couple more years to acquire the talent to compete for championships
GoDucksIn09 wrote:2 statistics that should remove all doubt about the offensive play calling. One being outscored 56-0 before scoring a single point on the road the last 3 road games. The second is scoring a whopping 15 points in the last 3 road games the first half. Those two statistics are going to mean losing 99% of the road games. It is a no brainer. The offense has no creativity and everybody knows they are going to run it right up the middle on first and probably second down then pass to Mitchell on 3rd down. I never played a single down of football in hs or college but I know if stack the box and double or triple team Mitchell will most likely stop the Oregon offense. These DC's that get paid
6 figures certainly know it and yet Oregon does not see that they know it. They continue doing the same thing. You can blame it on injuries or lack of skill players. The problem is as coaches you play to your strength or adapt to what defenses are doing. Chip Kelly would see what a defense is doing and attack them at their weakness. Arroyo sees what they are doing and still runs the same play putting us in 3rd and long almost every 3rd down. It is long past the time of defending Arroyo. He needs to be gone at the end of the year. The statistics don't lie. No creativity and being so blatantly predictable a person with 0 hs or college game playing can see it means the coaches on opposing teams can see it. Arroyo needs to go period. He can go coach for Helfrich if he gets another head coaching job.
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by Phenom »

What a terrible argument, but not surprised considering the source. The coaches do attack the opponent's weaknesses. They make great halftime adjustments in fact. The game prep seems to be part of the problem, not adjusting to what our opponents are doing.
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by Duck24 »

Duck07 wrote:
Duckenstein wrote:I think it looks like the defense knows what we're going to do because the have scouted:

1 how bad our WRs are
2 how bad our OL is
3 how mediocre our RBs are

We are limited by personnel
and I haven't discounted those things either but what we do consistently on offense is the definition of insanity: doing the same thing repeatedly while expecting a different result. Put Sewell back in and sure, things look better because we can just over-power someone on a play but that doesn't work against the top teams who also have guys who can push back.

Very few coaches on this staff are capable of out-thinking their opponents; it's all about brawn. Further, the starters are not as bad as they are being made out to be when they are constantly in bad spots. No OL is ever going to win all these battles we constantly put them in. We think stacking the box to run against a stacked box is a great idea FFS.
Preach the good word my man.

Execution is absolutely part of the problem, nobody denies that but the playcalling plays into that crappy execution. Would I love to see us physically dominate teams week in and week out in the trenches? Absolutely. MC doesn’t have a roster setup to do that yet. Our banger RB is under 5’10 and weighs what, 205? Part of this is that we all need to have patience but a whole lot more of it goes on the coaching staff. Playcalling is predictable which seemingly always puts the O behind the sticks. Then we get into 3rd and long and the only guy capable of catching a ball that doesn’t hit him directly in the hands is DMitch.

I know MC doesn’t want to put Herbert in a position to get hurt but opposing offenses know we don’t call running plays for him. Opposing D’s don’t have to play contain on the backside. If he pulled the ball just a couple of times per game, I bet he’d pick up 10+ easily yards per carry.

TL/DR: Ditto to what 07 said.
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Re: Offensive Playcalling is NOT the problem

Post by GrantDuck »

Agree to disagree.

Play calling cost us severely against WSU and Utah. Examples are too numerous to count, but primarily lack of counters to obvious blitz situations.

Predictable plays and tendencies. (The 2 slants to Mitchell in particular were god awful calls).

Arroyo needs to be gone or give up play calling duties.
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