Thoughts on next DC

[GoDucksTroll]

I'm a big ethics guy. Gonna say I'm a "no" to Hurtt and Tosh both, especially considering the latter is 0/1 as a DC already.

I'm totally fine with guys from smaller schools who have shown outstanding performance. That's how we got Chip.

I can understand and respect that. For me with Clint Hurtt it isn’t just him getting caught, it’s that he is not a good candidate. He hasn’t coached in college since then, he’s never been a play caller, and he has no recruiting ties to the area not ideal but not a deal breaker. Did he become a great DC by being around the NFL? Maybe. But I’d trust a maybe like Keith Heyward that’s proven more for us.

Allow me to play devil’s advocate or, technically, promoter of the cause since I’m going for Tosh.

* When he gave that recruit a coffee cup of cash as alleged, do you think Tosh was acting on his own? Or was he a middle man or following orders from his superior? Was he giving him his own personal money? If he’s not the only one involved does that make it any better? What if everyone, including current Oregon coaches, does the same and it’s just a regular thing?

* When he recruited guys from Cal to UW is that not a regular occurrence? We benefited from that with Willie bringing us USF commits and then the opposite when he went to FSU.

* If Tosh only lasted half a season as Saban’s DC does that mean he’s bad at it? Or does the Alabama DC take heat for anything beyond absolute perfection and could be have been scapegoated? It’s certainly possible he improved, learned from mistakes, and it is impressive that he got the job in the first place. Also, I looked at the defensive stats that year, and I don’t see what’s wrong, but I didn’t follow Alabama football closely enough to judge. Their fans say everyone sucks, they said the same about Mario and his OL.

I also have nothing against smaller school coordinators, talent and hard work is everywhere and not limited to big name schools. You and I as Duck fans of a similar age who were at U of O at about the same time if I remember correctly, got to see the meteoric rise of Chip from the same perspective. I’ve been trumpeting David Reeves of UAB for a while now. I just don’t see it from Nate Woody based on his career trajectory, he’s not a diamond chip in the rough.

[Everythingsducky]

‘Allow me to play devil’s advocate or, technically, promoter of the cause since I’m going for Tosh.

* When he gave that recruit a coffee cup of cash as alleged, do you think Tosh was acting on his own? Or was he a middle man or following orders from his superior? Was he giving him his own personal money? If he’s not the only one involved does that make it any better? What if everyone, including current Oregon coaches, does the same and it’s just a regular thing?’

Ok, cool. So you are good with spineless ass-hats, that don’t know right from wrong? How stupid. I’m absolutely NOT for anyone that can’t stand up for themselves. The demotion of play calling duties at Bama is enough. Accountability is everything, regardless of whom is pulling strings. You walk, if you have a conscience. Don’t spew that garbage. He’s a man, makes his own ultimate decisions. Stop making excuses. If you have to make excuses, hell no, I don’t want MC to even consider him as an option. How is he such a great option, even with all the BS that surrounds him? Hell no.

[jimmy12]

I think It's going to be Schumann. That's my gut. (He checks a lot of boxes. Good coach, young, aggressive and a MONSTER on the recruiting trail). This profile seems to align to Mario's vision. The other Co-DC decided to stay and not go to Texas. This helps the Ducks chances in my opinion. I have no insider info, just a gut feel.

[GoDucksTroll]

‘Allow me to play devil’s advocate or, technically, promoter of the cause since I’m going for Tosh.

* When he gave that recruit a coffee cup of cash as alleged, do you think Tosh was acting on his own? Or was he a middle man or following orders from his superior? Was he giving him his own personal money? If he’s not the only one involved does that make it any better? What if everyone, including current Oregon coaches, does the same and it’s just a regular thing?’

Ok, cool. So you are good with spineless ass-hats, that don’t know right from wrong? How stupid. I’m absolutely NOT for anyone that can’t stand up for themselves. The demotion of play calling duties at Bama is enough. Accountability is everything, regardless of whom is pulling strings. You walk, if you have a conscience. Don’t spew that garbage. He’s a man, makes his own ultimate decisions. Stop making excuses. If you have to make excuses, hell no, I don’t want MC to even consider him as an option. How is he such a great option, even with all the BS that surrounds him? Hell no.

As an FYI, Tosh Lupoi didn’t defraud a children’s hospital. Tosh is alleged to have given the high school track coach of a UW commit two tranches totaling $4500 for the kid to take tutoring and online classes to get eligible. The kid took the classes, family claimed they paid for it on a credit card. The assistant track coach that took the money went to the NCAA and called the LA Times. Track coach said he was just trying to help the guy get into UW but didn’t elaborate. There were rumors that the track coach was a bit unstable, or upset that Sark and his staff were going to USC, or that he wanted publicity; he initially said he never contacted the media but I believe it came out he was the one talking to the LA Times. In any case, it doesn’t matter what the motivation was, just context and some articles below. Up to each individual to judge the ethics of Tosh’s actions.

Here’s the Seattle Times piece: https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw- ... g-classes/
And the aftermath: https://mailtribune.com/archive/probe-o ... -penalties

If this kind of stuff is upsetting what do you think about helping a recruit commit forgery? Or not doing due diligence on a transfer under investigation for a sex crime? Or removing two sexual assault allegations from a permanent record to make it easier for a player to transfer and avoid a lawsuit? Paying $25k to the boyfriend of a recruits mother? Or assisting in getting an attorney in another state to get a felony lowered to a misdemeanor? College sports is what it is, I also don’t like the way hot dogs are made but I’ll eat them. I don’t like whataboutisms but I also don’t like when one mistake, true or not, merits such a response. I used to think Tosh was as slimy as could be. Now, to me, his transgressions are minor compared to the previous Oregon ones I listed.
This will soon be moot anyway. It looks like Tosh is not the top candidate, which at the moment is trending Schumann.

[buckmarkduck]

‘Allow me to play devil’s advocate or, technically, promoter of the cause since I’m going for Tosh.

* When he gave that recruit a coffee cup of cash as alleged, do you think Tosh was acting on his own? Or was he a middle man or following orders from his superior? Was he giving him his own personal money? If he’s not the only one involved does that make it any better? What if everyone, including current Oregon coaches, does the same and it’s just a regular thing?’

Ok, cool. So you are good with spineless ass-hats, that don’t know right from wrong? How stupid. I’m absolutely NOT for anyone that can’t stand up for themselves. The demotion of play calling duties at Bama is enough. Accountability is everything, regardless of whom is pulling strings. You walk, if you have a conscience. Don’t spew that garbage. He’s a man, makes his own ultimate decisions. Stop making excuses. If you have to make excuses, hell no, I don’t want MC to even consider him as an option. How is he such a great option, even with all the BS that surrounds him? Hell no.

As an FYI, Tosh Lupoi didn’t defraud a children’s hospital. Tosh is alleged to have given the high school track coach of a UW commit two tranches totaling $4500 for the kid to take tutoring and online classes to get eligible. The kid took the classes, family claimed they paid for it on a credit card. The assistant track coach that took the money went to the NCAA and called the LA Times. Track coach said he was just trying to help the guy get into UW but didn’t elaborate. There were rumors that the track coach was a bit unstable, or upset that Sark and his staff were going to USC, or that he wanted publicity; he initially said he never contacted the media but I believe it came out he was the one talking to the LA Times. In any case, it doesn’t matter what the motivation was, just context and some articles below. Up to each individual to judge the ethics of Tosh’s actions.

Here’s the Seattle Times piece: https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw- ... g-classes/
And the aftermath: https://mailtribune.com/archive/probe-o ... -penalties

If this kind of stuff is upsetting what do you think about helping a recruit commit forgery? Or not doing due diligence on a transfer under investigation for a sex crime? Or removing two sexual assault allegations from a permanent record to make it easier for a player to transfer and avoid a lawsuit? Paying $25k to the boyfriend of a recruits mother? Or assisting in getting an attorney in another state to get a felony lowered to a misdemeanor? College sports is what it is, I also don’t like the way hot dogs are made but I’ll eat them. I don’t like whataboutisms but I also don’t like when one mistake, true or not, merits such a response. I used to think Tosh was as slimy as could be. Now, to me, his transgressions are minor compared to the previous Oregon ones I listed.
This will soon be moot anyway. It looks like Tosh is not the top candidate, which at the moment is trending Schumann.

So coach from a school, hoping to get kid into school to play football. Financially helps kid get his grades up, because his parents couldn’t afford it =coach being labeled a scumbag. Man the NCAA is awesome. Let the kid fail, and end up not going to college. Meanwhile the kid will put in hours and hours of work at said school, all for the price of education. Nah you can’t give them the equivalent of 2-3 weeks worth of a paycheck.

[StevensTechU]

I don't understand why every time the NCAA enforces the rules its member schools come up with, it makes the NCAA the devil.

[buckmarkduck]

I don't understand why every time the NCAA enforces the rules its member schools come up with, it makes the NCAA the devil.

The issue is a couple things.

1-They only selectively enforce the rules.. meaning schools in confrences not named the SEC, Ohio st, Michigan, Clemson and a few others. Meanwhile they have no problem going after pac 12 schools.

2-The rules are BS, and need to be fixed, or dump the ncaa all together and start a new governing body. One that actually cares about the athletes, and doesn’t only exist to make as much money as possible while keeping their thumb on the athletes.

[OrTDuck]

A deeper dive into their background and bios suggests that if you like Schumann, you'd love Keith Hayward, no?

GS:

* 8 years as an undergraduate and graduate analyst (undergrad analyst?), then two years as support staff at Alabama.

* Brought over to Georgia when Smart took over as Kirby's "right hand man" (with no playing or coaching experience) - and not initially as clearly a coaching hire (Smart: "I wouldn't define the role just yet. I would just say he will be part of our staff...I'm not going to pinpoint it exactly yet.").

* Kirby's DC Tucker went to Colorado and its two LB coaches (Lanning and Schumann) were made co-DCs. Georgia has done well, but how much of that reflects Kirby's 8 years as Alabama DC and how much the young guys? Overall 5 years total as a position coach, two with a "co-DC" label.

* Reputation as a good recruiter but has only recruited to Alabama and Georgia. Sometimes recruiting to the likes of Alabama, Georgia, LSU, etc., seems a lot like shooting fish in a barrel.

KH:

* 35 consecutive starts at CB at OSU. Two years as a GA at OSU.

* 14 years as a DB coach at Cal Poly, OSU, Washington, USC, Louisville, and Oregon, three with a co-DC label.

* West coast recruiting ties, 12 years recruiting in the Pac-12.

Is at least some of the GS "buzz" ties to "Alabama" and "Georgia" or something else? The ties certainly very good, but most likely a lot of people have been responsible making those things go, how does one weigh that factor? I guess too Dan Lanning's name has popped up for a couple high profile jobs (though Georgia's got to be a good gig so a different DC spot seems somewhat less likely). Would GS think twice if that solo gig appears might open up now or in the near future?

[GoDucksTroll]

A deeper dive into their background and bios suggests that if you like Schumann, you'd love Keith Hayward, no?

GS:

* 8 years as an undergraduate and graduate analyst (undergrad analyst?), then two years as support staff at Alabama.

* Brought over to Georgia when Smart took over as Kirby's "right hand man" (with no playing or coaching experience) - and not initially as clearly a coaching hire (Smart: "I wouldn't define the role just yet. I would just say he will be part of our staff...I'm not going to pinpoint it exactly yet.").

* Kirby's DC Tucker went to Colorado and its two LB coaches (Lanning and Schumann) were made co-DCs. Georgia has done well, but how much of that reflects Kirby's 8 years as Alabama DC and how much the young guys? Overall 5 years total as a position coach, two with a "co-DC" label.

* Reputation as a good recruiter but has only recruited to Alabama and Georgia. Sometimes recruiting to the likes of Alabama, Georgia, LSU, etc., seems a lot like shooting fish in a barrel.

KH:

* 35 consecutive starts at CB at OSU. Two years as a GA at OSU.

* 14 years as a DB coach at Cal Poly, OSU, Washington, USC, Louisville, and Oregon, three with a co-DC label.

* West coast recruiting ties, 12 years recruiting in the Pac-12.

Is at least some of the GS "buzz" ties to "Alabama" and "Georgia" or something else? The ties certainly very good, but most likely a lot of people have been responsible making those things go, how does one weigh that factor? I guess too Dan Lanning's name has popped up for a couple high profile jobs (though Georgia's got to be a good gig so a different DC spot seems somewhat less likely). Would GS think twice if that solo gig appears might open up now or in the near future?

I also thought of the similarities between Heyward and Schumann, and if anything Heyward has more experience and familiarity with the program. Schumann’s pluses are that he has ties to the South, which would help with recruiting. We see the benefit of Brandon Dorlus, Jamal Hill, Kristian Williams, DJ James, etc: they weren’t extremely high rated as recruits, but have beaten out higher ranked west coast guys. And those are the second and third tier SEC area recruits. But, as you said, who knows what Schumann’s recruiting is like because recruiting to Georgia and Alabama isn’t exactly rocket science.

I like Heyward, he’s our top defensive assistant in my opinion, and I would be okay with him getting promoted. I don’t know what the specific rumors are, but I’ve seen both USC and Oregon State fans say something about Heyward’s personal life is a factor in him not getting jobs or interviews to commensurate with his results. Curious if anyone else had heard about that.

[buckmarkduck]

A deeper dive into their background and bios suggests that if you like Schumann, you'd love Keith Hayward, no?

GS:

* 8 years as an undergraduate and graduate analyst (undergrad analyst?), then two years as support staff at Alabama.

* Brought over to Georgia when Smart took over as Kirby's "right hand man" (with no playing or coaching experience) - and not initially as clearly a coaching hire (Smart: "I wouldn't define the role just yet. I would just say he will be part of our staff...I'm not going to pinpoint it exactly yet.").

* Kirby's DC Tucker went to Colorado and its two LB coaches (Lanning and Schumann) were made co-DCs. Georgia has done well, but how much of that reflects Kirby's 8 years as Alabama DC and how much the young guys? Overall 5 years total as a position coach, two with a "co-DC" label.

* Reputation as a good recruiter but has only recruited to Alabama and Georgia. Sometimes recruiting to the likes of Alabama, Georgia, LSU, etc., seems a lot like shooting fish in a barrel.

KH:

* 35 consecutive starts at CB at OSU. Two years as a GA at OSU.

* 14 years as a DB coach at Cal Poly, OSU, Washington, USC, Louisville, and Oregon, three with a co-DC label.

* West coast recruiting ties, 12 years recruiting in the Pac-12.

Is at least some of the GS "buzz" ties to "Alabama" and "Georgia" or something else? The ties certainly very good, but most likely a lot of people have been responsible making those things go, how does one weigh that factor? I guess too Dan Lanning's name has popped up for a couple high profile jobs (though Georgia's got to be a good gig so a different DC spot seems somewhat less likely). Would GS think twice if that solo gig appears might open up now or in the near future?

I also thought of the similarities between Heyward and Schumann, and if anything Heyward has more experience and familiarity with the program. Schumann’s pluses are that he has ties to the South, which would help with recruiting. We see the benefit of Brandon Dorlus, Jamal Hill, Kristian Williams, DJ James, etc: they weren’t extremely high rated as recruits, but have beaten out higher ranked west coast guys. And those are the second and third tier SEC area recruits. But, as you said, who knows what Schumann’s recruiting is like because recruiting to Georgia and Alabama isn’t exactly rocket science.

I like Heyward, he’s our top defensive assistant in my opinion, and I would be okay with him getting promoted. I don’t know what the specific rumors are, but I’ve seen both USC and Oregon State fans say something about Heyward’s personal life is a factor in him not getting jobs or interviews to commensurate with his results. Curious if anyone else had heard about that.

I’m guessing those rumors are just sour grapes. Can’t be any wore than guys like Venables or VaTech Bud Foster. Both guys enjoy nights out on the town, but do great as DC. Coordinators aren’t held to the standard the HC is held to.

[lmduck]

The only thing I ever heard about Heyward is that he and Mike Riley dislike each other very intensely. Jonathan Smith was interested in KH for the DC role when he took over as the HC but Heyward declined because he felt Riley would have too much influence with Smith. 100% true, I can't say for sure but I have heard this more than once.


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[StevensTechU]

I don't understand why every time the NCAA enforces the rules its member schools come up with, it makes the NCAA the devil.

The issue is a couple things.

1-They only selectively enforce the rules.. meaning schools in confrences not named the SEC, Ohio st, Michigan, Clemson and a few others. Meanwhile they have no problem going after pac 12 schools.

2-The rules are BS, and need to be fixed, or dump the ncaa all together and start a new governing body. One that actually cares about the athletes, and doesn’t only exist to make as much money as possible while keeping their thumb on the athletes.

My point is the member schools came up with those BS rules. Get rid of the ncaa and start a new ncaa with the same (or substantially the same) member schools then you'll end up right back where you started. Blame the member schools if you don't like the rules.

[greenyellow]

Further update from Feldman about the DC search:

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[GoDucksTroll]

The Wofford HC Conklin had some awful defenses at Pitt. Gave up 38 PPG one year, just awful. They beat Clemson one year but it wasn’t the defense, score was like 43-42. Looking at the defensive stats for those Pitt teams I couldn’t remember them being so bad on defense.

The other guy, Toney, can’t be a serious DC candidate. Are we looking for a position coach? Or like a GA? Because a partial season of calling plays at Louisiana Lafayette and safeties coach there, at Sam Houston State, and in high schools in California is not impressive at all. If I’m Keith Heyward and this dude gets hired instead I’m done.

They could all be good, who knows. Maybe it’s just agents trying to get raises or extensions. I don’t need a big name or a splashy hire but I need to see some reason to have some optimism in the next DC and neither of those have a track record.

[DuckMastaFunk]

* If Tosh only lasted half a season as Saban’s DC does that mean he’s bad at it?

Ummm, yeah. That is EXACTLY what it means.