Fire Horton

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cordy02c
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Fire Horton

Post by cordy02c »

This is pathetic
uosportsguy01
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Re: Fire Horton

Post by uosportsguy01 »

I've sat back and tried to be patient on this and not give a knee jerk reaction, but I've finally had enough. I place the blame on the coaches, specifically Wasikowski. He's the hitting coach and heads up recruiting. All these kids could hit in high school, but it seems they regress when they get on campus and fail to progress.

I've heard all the speculation: "It's hard to hit at PK", "small ball", blah, blah, blah.... The reality is Ducks don't really play small ball any more, and that's part of the problem. You want to see "small ball" being played, go watch a UC Irvine game. Ducks aren't that, they are trying to "swing away" and the reality is they're not that. So much focus is placed on lefties pulling the ball instead of using the whole ball park. Pull, pull, pull is what is apparently being put in their heads. A few years ago, they put a focus on recruiting a bunch of bigger lefty pull hitters with that mindset. Balta, Cuddy, Goldfarb, St. Louis, Eureste, Susnara. It is hard to hit at PK at night if you're a lefty trying to pull the ball out of the ballpark. Ball doesn't carry with the heavy air. Other than Sunday games, don't they mainly play at night?

Development. This is where our coaches have failed. In the last 5 years, who's hit? Mainly 2 guys. Healy and Tolman. Healy is a big, strong pure hitter who's ability translates anywhere. Wasikowski wasn't even on campus when Healy was recruited. Tolmans the other pure hitter who's approach fits PK to a tee, and from what I've read, he was a preferred walk on, and while recruited late, basically fell into Ducks lap when Serrano left Fullerton and headed east (Tolman was committed to Fullerton). Beyond that, what hitter that Wasikowski recruited has improved once on campus?

Maybe this is a small sample and I'm using it to form my narrative, but look at a couple players that have been in the program and left. Jack Kruger spent his freshman year with Ducks and was even the starter at beginning of that year. He struggled at plate (shocker I know...), so they benched him. They brought in a few more catchers next year and basically told him he wasn't going to play, so he transferred. Take a look at what he's doing at Mississippi State. Wouldn't you like to have a guy hitting .350+, OBP of .475 and a slugging % of .592? How about Conner Cloyd (I know you're saying "who"?). Started out at Oregon freshman year, but lo and behold they wanted to redshirt him as they didn't think he could help them. He transferred to a JC and now at Ol Miss. Only batted .360+ for the Rebels last year (though "struggling" this year at .245, which would be 3rd on Ducks this year). On a different note, how about the catcher out of Sisters, Joey Morgan? Wasn't he offered a full ride to come here? However once Wasikowski got Susnara committed, the story I heard is they went back to Morgan and told him he wouldn't play much and scholarship amount changed. So Morgan heads up to Huskies and look what he's doing this year (.333 average, .432 OBP and .522 slugging, all would lead Ducks). Small sample I know, however how come these kids can't hit with Ducks but after leaving seem to excel? We have zero hitters hitting over .300 this year (Kasser and Bennett do not have enough at bats yet to qualify) and only had 1 last year. How many players on Oregon State are hitting over .300? Unless you want to become depressed, I suggest you don't head over to OSU's website and look it up.

What's the deal with Karaviotis? Is he hurt or something? Two year starter, 2nd on team last year in OBP and had a batting average of .270. Now he's not good enough to play?

Again, I don't blame any of the players, I place the blame squarely on coaches. Horton's contract is up after next year, time for the administration to move in another direction and clean house. My hope is Dave Checketts doesn't take another job this summer, as he would be perfect to replace Horton. Grew up in Oregon, played for the Beavs, was on staff when they restarted program, and has done an unbelievable job building the program at UC Santa Barbara (which has horrible facilities and hard to recruit). Bring him home.

I sincerely hope team figures something out and turns things around this year as counter to my comments, I am a huge Ducks fan. I want them to do well, however have just had enough with this coaching staff. The administration has committed money, time and patience and the reality is the program is regressing. We have a football program that is top 10 in country year in and year out, and a basketball program on an incredible upswing and poised to be a consistent top 10 program. Doesn't the baseball program fans deserve the same?

Go Ducks!
buckmarkduck
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Re: Fire Horton

Post by buckmarkduck »

I don't know if it's bad coaching as far as hitting goes, or miss judging the talent in HS. Look at arguabley the biggest recruit Horton landed( hitting wise not pitcher) in Alex Jackson, and he has been terrible so far at single A. He's batting around .200 with 8 hr. Would he have been much better here? Single A isn't exactly the best of the best.
uosportsguy01
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Re: Fire Horton

Post by uosportsguy01 »

As far as Jackson goes, he's in a league filled with mainly 22/23 yr olds (he's 19), and most of the main pitchers (starters) would all be Friday night guys if in college. There's always an adjustment period. He was what, 6th pick in the draft and every college in country was offering him a full ride? I can't blame Horton for any recruiting evaluation there.

I see Ducks won today and even hit a couple hr's. Nice win over Cal. My first thought though? Day game. Ha. Hope they're able to take series tomorrow!
RanDux
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Re: Fire Horton

Post by RanDux »

I know this season has been frustrating, but it's way too soon to talk about firing Horton. Maybe we can talk about replacing the hitting coach if this continues, but not Horton yet.
oregontrack
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Re: Fire Horton

Post by oregontrack »

first of all, thank you for touching on the small ball issue. this team does NOT bunt away like many suspect they do; i watched a full 9-inning game a few weeks ago where we didn't attempt a single sacrifice, and someone on eDuck went on a lengthy diatribe about how "sick of small ball" he was. so many people comment on these games without ever watching (or listening) and that gets frustrating.

i get the frustration but i don't think it's time to fire horton. he's been very successful.

2010: 40 wins, tournament.
2011: 33 wins, still lacking depth in year 3, good pitching/hitting, bad bullpen. narrowly miss tournament.
2012: 46 wins, national seed despite absence of projected #1 starter; super regional.
2013: 48 wins, national seed.
2014: 44 wins, tournament. no cole irvin; cruising along w/o him until matt krook injury. love what jeff gold gave this university, but not going to advance w/ him as your #2.
2015: 38 wins, tournament. mediocre pitching, mediocre hitting, bad defense... rallied late.

that's *four* consecutive postseasons and, according to the broadcast saturday, the 12th-winningest program in the nation over the last 4.5 years. if the coaches/players would stop declaring "OMAHA!" every preseason like they were peyton manning i think a lot more people would be satisfied with the results.
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uosportsguy01
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Re: Fire Horton

Post by uosportsguy01 »

Great series win this weekend and much needed. I loved how on the Ducks write up on the website they singled out how the hitters were "going oppo" as that's one of the original points I was trying to make. They need to get away from being so pull happy, so nice to see a focus (if for one game at least) of using the whole field.

As to Horton, oregontrack, you are correct. If he wants to return after next year (when his contracts up), he's obviously proven he's a successful coach and knows how to win, and gets the benefit of the doubt. I still think a new hitting coach is in order though no matter what.

Hopefully the Ducks can put a run together and start figuring some things out. Also, anyone heard what's up with Karaviotis? Barring an injury I haven't heard about (and thats always possible), I just think it's strange he's been buried on the bench.
oregontrack
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Re: Fire Horton

Post by oregontrack »

horton mentioned that karaviotis was hurt in the san diego state series, but never said to what extent and i haven't heard a peep ever since. gotta be season-ending, given the struggles of moniot and kroon w/o substitutions.
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shoparound
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Re: Fire Horton

Post by shoparound »

Horton is a smart coach, and has been around long enough to know when he probably needs a new hitting coach.
It's great that those recruits look good on paper, but there must be some serious misjudgment on their talent abilities to have been this bad for ALL these years.
I don't think Horton will fire him though. If we know anything about the AD, we will go down a sinking ship before burying any of our own. I'm thinking the program would have to be Ernie Kent or Westhead bad where the team will only win 3 games a year before changes are made. I do think that they are content with making the NCAAs which Kent and Westhead weren't able to do in their last hurrah.
shoparound
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Re: Fire Horton

Post by shoparound »

Also another thing we all mention is Omaha, and the reality is, Omaha is equivalent to a Final Four in basketball or a playoff in CFB.
Some teams, no matter how godly amazing they are, never make it there. It comes down to the draw, and how these teams compete that day. OSU was seeded #1 a couple of years ago and they didn't even make it to super regionals. My point is, it may NEVER be reachable for this program. Even if we put everything in play to get it.

With that said, we did make it to a national championship appearance in FB, VB, WCWS in softball, Semis in MGolf, etc.... There's something special in Oregon teams... I don't feel it with this baseball program though.
oregontrack
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Re: Fire Horton

Post by oregontrack »

that's very true. oregon state had an incredible run from 2005-07 where they made it to omaha three times, and despite being regarded as a national player ever since i believe they've only returned to omaha... once. like you said, they were the #1 team in the nation two years ago and uc-irvine knocked them out of their own regional; ucla was the #1 overall seed last year, and failed to advance out of their regional. in fact, the year osu was #1 and failed to advance, 6 of the 8 national seeds failed to get to omaha. it's a crapshoot for most teams.

i've always said that we have the right model (most years) -- pitching and defense. you absolutely cannot win a title without those things. you can, however, win a title without great hitting. things need to bounce your way, but that's true in every sport. teams that swing away and go light on pitching are called washington state.
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uosportsguy01
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Re: Fire Horton

Post by uosportsguy01 »

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