Finances

[dave]

It's a broken system.

Should take away all 1 yr contracts in FA too. Game weighs it too heavily.

[Brophdog88]

Also, since when does 7/29 reduce to 1/3, that isn't even 1/4th of the league, in fact I'd say that's a pretty ideal amount near the hc

There are 9 teams within 5 and change. Another 4-5 within another 3 mil. It's growing...

Are you one of those people who believe climate change isn't real?

Wait, so your response is an attempt to insult me?

I asked you a question after you nitpicked over percentage of teams.

You explicitly stated 1/3rd of the league was within 5 million of the hard cap, not 5 million and change, and I pointed out you were clearly not stating the truth, as less than 1/4th the teams were, with evidence. If you are going to try to get a rule changed, don't lie about the basis for it. Even in the follow up you lied. There are 8 teams within 5 and change, and 3 including that team within the three million window expansion...not 9 and 4-5

[FlDuckFan]

I don't know the game well enough to have an opinion on who's right on how we should handle this. I see Dave's point , but I also see the other side.

[dave]

Also, since when does 7/29 reduce to 1/3, that isn't even 1/4th of the league, in fact I'd say that's a pretty ideal amount near the hc

There are 9 teams within 5 and change. Another 4-5 within another 3 mil. It's growing...

Are you one of those people who believe climate change isn't real?

Wait, so your response is an attempt to insult me?

I asked you a question after you nitpicked over percentage of teams.

You explicitly stated 1/3rd of the league was within 5 million of the hard cap, not 5 million and change, and I pointed out you were clearly not stating the truth, as less than 1/4th the teams were, with evidence. If you are going to try to get a rule changed, don't lie about the basis for it. Even in the follow up you lied. There are 8 teams within 5 and change, and 3 including that team within the three million window expansion...not 9 and 4-5

You don't have time to post in any of the sim threads this season but you add up all the team's salaries? C'mon man. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you.

Bottomline is I'm trying to promote league activity. I've basically sat on my team for the past 2-3 seasons because it's so difficult to trade in this league due to disparity in contracts and hard cap.

You get teams like the Rockets who sign dudes to 1 year max's and can never trade them due to the salary being so high. You want to call that mismanagement?
The 76ers don't have any gross contracts on their team but they couldn't do anything in the offseason because they are so close to the hard cap. So I guess he's just gonna sit on his team all year and then let guys walk at season's end.

Should highways have people driving at 100mph and say well if you crash your car you mismanaged driving? No we have speed limits! We should have max contract limits.

[Marzeial]

I think I understand Dave's point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that since we hit the point of younger players entering the league, they will be hitting much larger max contracts earlier. Those larger max's are what is seemingly causing the boosts.

Just looking at random teams, Tony Park is 28 and looks like his next contract is going to be huge. Same with Eddy Curry. Marc Gasol, LeBron James, Brandon Roy, Carmelo Anthony, Al Jeff, etc will all be up for another huge contract within the next few years and will be around 28 and still in their prime.

Again, I'm fine with the decision either way, but with those type of players hoping to resign to their teams, their cap space will probably be hindered with just those singular players. You would want to resign those type of players but you won't have much wiggle room to add any other pieces around them in FA

[pudgejeff]

Also, since when does 7/29 reduce to 1/3, that isn't even 1/4th of the league, in fact I'd say that's a pretty ideal amount near the hc

There are 9 teams within 5 and change. Another 4-5 within another 3 mil. It's growing...

Are you one of those people who believe climate change isn't real?

Wait, so your response is an attempt to insult me?

I asked you a question after you nitpicked over percentage of teams.

You explicitly stated 1/3rd of the league was within 5 million of the hard cap, not 5 million and change, and I pointed out you were clearly not stating the truth, as less than 1/4th the teams were, with evidence. If you are going to try to get a rule changed, don't lie about the basis for it. Even in the follow up you lied. There are 8 teams within 5 and change, and 3 including that team within the three million window expansion...not 9 and 4-5

You don't have time to post in any of the sim threads this season but you add up all the team's salaries? C'mon man. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you.

Bottomline is I'm trying to promote league activity. I've basically sat on my team for the past 2-3 seasons because it's so difficult to trade in this league due to disparity in contracts and hard cap.

You get teams like the Rockets who sign dudes to 1 year max's and can never trade them due to the salary being so high. You want to call that mismanagement?
The 76ers don't have any gross contracts on their team but they couldn't do anything in the offseason because they are so close to the hard cap. So I guess he's just gonna sit on his team all year and then let guys walk at season's end.

Should highways have people driving at 100mph and say well if you crash your car you mismanaged driving? No we have speed limits! We should have max contract limits.

The 76ers have 4 guys they gave max or close to max contracts, and you're saying they should be able to hand out more?

You had 4 guys on max contracts until you were able to move Johnson(still lulz), and you want to just have more money to spend?

We do have speed limits, it's called the Hard cap.

Just allowing single teams to have 5 or 6 or 7 guys on max contracts is ridiculous, this makes you actually have to choose who you keep and who you let walk. You have to decide, does that guy deserve a max or does he deserve only 7-8 mil.

And it's not like the 76ers don't also have 2 guys in the 5.5 mil range on top of their 4. I have 4 guys in that range on top of my 4 in the max range.

You say promote league activity, but allowing singular teams to build massive salaried loaded teams would make for less and less activity.

[DrBradBuss]

There are 9 teams within 5 and change. Another 4-5 within another 3 mil. It's growing...

Are you one of those people who believe climate change isn't real?

Wait, so your response is an attempt to insult me?

I asked you a question after you nitpicked over percentage of teams.

You explicitly stated 1/3rd of the league was within 5 million of the hard cap, not 5 million and change, and I pointed out you were clearly not stating the truth, as less than 1/4th the teams were, with evidence. If you are going to try to get a rule changed, don't lie about the basis for it. Even in the follow up you lied. There are 8 teams within 5 and change, and 3 including that team within the three million window expansion...not 9 and 4-5

You don't have time to post in any of the sim threads this season but you add up all the team's salaries? C'mon man. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you.

Bottomline is I'm trying to promote league activity. I've basically sat on my team for the past 2-3 seasons because it's so difficult to trade in this league due to disparity in contracts and hard cap.

You get teams like the Rockets who sign dudes to 1 year max's and can never trade them due to the salary being so high. You want to call that mismanagement?
The 76ers don't have any gross contracts on their team but they couldn't do anything in the offseason because they are so close to the hard cap. So I guess he's just gonna sit on his team all year and then let guys walk at season's end.

Should highways have people driving at 100mph and say well if you crash your car you mismanaged driving? No we have speed limits! We should have max contract limits.

The 76ers have 4 guys they gave max or close to max contracts, and you're saying they should be able to hand out more?

You had 4 guys on max contracts until you were able to move Johnson(still lulz), and you want to just have more money to spend?

We do have speed limits, it's called the Hard cap.

Just allowing single teams to have 5 or 6 or 7 guys on max contracts is ridiculous, this makes you actually have to choose who you keep and who you let walk. You have to decide, does that guy deserve a max or does he deserve only 7-8 mil.

And it's not like the 76ers don't also have 2 guys in the 5.5 mil range on top of their 4. I have 4 guys in that range on top of my 4 in the max range.

You say promote league activity, but allowing singular teams to build massive salaried loaded teams would make for less and less activity.

Ditto this

[UOducksTK1]

From what I remember TK saying, this is about the top end of where the cap should be. Since 1st round picks don't adjust I think, and the MLE/LLE I know don't adjust this is kinda the top end. If you raise the cap, then people just offer more money. I think it's fine and agree with Bells about liking when players are switching teams. And I'm saying this from a spot right next to the hard cap and having to negotiate that.

Agree^

I respect dave even though I disagree with him. His persistence reminds me of William Wilberforce vs Parliament. Granted for a cause infinitely more important than a sim league's hard cap, but the passion is still there.

[catch 922]

You don't have time to post in any of the sim threads this season but you add up all the team's salaries? C'mon man. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you.

What does posting in sim threads have anything to do with him having time to add salaries?

Bottomline is I'm trying to promote league activity. I've basically sat on my team for the past 2-3 seasons because it's so difficult to trade in this league due to disparity in contracts and hard cap.

Is it the leagues fault you have three players above 15 million? Any player above 12 million will be difficult to move no matter who they are, which means you having three of them will force you to sit on your team, not the league's inactivity. Allowing teams to do this more often than not will kill activity more.

[Oregon Ownage]

From what I remember TK saying, this is about the top end of where the cap should be. Since 1st round picks don't adjust I think, and the MLE/LLE I know don't adjust this is kinda the top end. If you raise the cap, then people just offer more money. I think it's fine and agree with Bells about liking when players are switching teams. And I'm saying this from a spot right next to the hard cap and having to negotiate that.

Agree^

I respect dave even though I disagree with him. His persistence reminds me of William Wilberforce vs Parliament. Granted for a cause infinitely more important than a sim league's hard cap, but the passion is still there.

To piggyback off of what Pudge said, increasing the cap would make 1st round picks more valuable and thus more people would be less willing to give them up and restrict trading more

[dave]

I think I understand Dave's point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that since we hit the point of younger players entering the league, they will be hitting much larger max contracts earlier. Those larger max's are what is seemingly causing the boosts.

Just looking at random teams, Tony Park is 28 and looks like his next contract is going to be huge. Same with Eddy Curry. Marc Gasol, LeBron James, Brandon Roy, Carmelo Anthony, Al Jeff, etc will all be up for another huge contract within the next few years and will be around 28 and still in their prime.

Again, I'm fine with the decision either way, but with those type of players hoping to resign to their teams, their cap space will probably be hindered with just those singular players. You would want to resign those type of players but you won't have much wiggle room to add any other pieces around them in FA

Thank you.

So if you're the Celtics do you risk losing Parker in the offseason by not offering a max when someone with cap space will? Then your max is somewhere in the 16-24 mil range.

[dave]

There are 9 teams within 5 and change. Another 4-5 within another 3 mil. It's growing...

Are you one of those people who believe climate change isn't real?

Wait, so your response is an attempt to insult me?

I asked you a question after you nitpicked over percentage of teams.

You explicitly stated 1/3rd of the league was within 5 million of the hard cap, not 5 million and change, and I pointed out you were clearly not stating the truth, as less than 1/4th the teams were, with evidence. If you are going to try to get a rule changed, don't lie about the basis for it. Even in the follow up you lied. There are 8 teams within 5 and change, and 3 including that team within the three million window expansion...not 9 and 4-5

You don't have time to post in any of the sim threads this season but you add up all the team's salaries? C'mon man. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you.

Bottomline is I'm trying to promote league activity. I've basically sat on my team for the past 2-3 seasons because it's so difficult to trade in this league due to disparity in contracts and hard cap.

You get teams like the Rockets who sign dudes to 1 year max's and can never trade them due to the salary being so high. You want to call that mismanagement?
The 76ers don't have any gross contracts on their team but they couldn't do anything in the offseason because they are so close to the hard cap. So I guess he's just gonna sit on his team all year and then let guys walk at season's end.

Should highways have people driving at 100mph and say well if you crash your car you mismanaged driving? No we have speed limits! We should have max contract limits.

The 76ers have 4 guys they gave max or close to max contracts, and you're saying they should be able to hand out more?

You had 4 guys on max contracts until you were able to move Johnson(still lulz), and you want to just have more money to spend?

We do have speed limits, it's called the Hard cap.

Just allowing single teams to have 5 or 6 or 7 guys on max contracts is ridiculous, this makes you actually have to choose who you keep and who you let walk. You have to decide, does that guy deserve a max or does he deserve only 7-8 mil.

And it's not like the 76ers don't also have 2 guys in the 5.5 mil range on top of their 4. I have 4 guys in that range on top of my 4 in the max range.

You say promote league activity, but allowing singular teams to build massive salaried loaded teams would make for less and less activity.

You're missing the point. The range in salaries is too large it prohibits teams from bettering their team through free agency or trades. The by product is inactivity.

If there was a cap on vet max contracts you'd still be able adjust the hard cap accordingly to scale but you'd increase teams chances to be active in trading.

If max deals always were 1/4 of cap regardless of experience and guys over 30 could only be maxed for 3 years we'd have a ton more healthy activity in offseason and in season. Teams would be more inclined to improve their team as a guy with 7 mil contract, MLE, and Vet FA could land you a vet max player. Great for buyers and sellers.

Dudes wouldn't be sitting on players forever like Zyme did with Muresean nor would guys like Michael Finley be an albatross for a team for 4-5 years because he declined at 32 on the front end of his deal.

Where is the harm?

[Brophdog88]

Also, since when does 7/29 reduce to 1/3, that isn't even 1/4th of the league, in fact I'd say that's a pretty ideal amount near the hc

There are 9 teams within 5 and change. Another 4-5 within another 3 mil. It's growing...

Are you one of those people who believe climate change isn't real?

Wait, so your response is an attempt to insult me?

I asked you a question after you nitpicked over percentage of teams.

You explicitly stated 1/3rd of the league was within 5 million of the hard cap, not 5 million and change, and I pointed out you were clearly not stating the truth, as less than 1/4th the teams were, with evidence. If you are going to try to get a rule changed, don't lie about the basis for it. Even in the follow up you lied. There are 8 teams within 5 and change, and 3 including that team within the three million window expansion...not 9 and 4-5

You don't have time to post in any of the sim threads this season but you add up all the team's salaries? C'mon man. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you.

Bottomline is I'm trying to promote league activity. I've basically sat on my team for the past 2-3 seasons because it's so difficult to trade in this league due to disparity in contracts and hard cap.

You get teams like the Rockets who sign dudes to 1 year max's and can never trade them due to the salary being so high. You want to call that mismanagement?
The 76ers don't have any gross contracts on their team but they couldn't do anything in the offseason because they are so close to the hard cap. So I guess he's just gonna sit on his team all year and then let guys walk at season's end.

Should highways have people driving at 100mph and say well if you crash your car you mismanaged driving? No we have speed limits! We should have max contract limits.

It was really difficult to spend the two minutes looking at

http://ducksattack.com/DASL/salaryneeds.htm

, annoyingly however, that used the majority of the time I have available since I am limited to my phone and not home

The speed limit analogy is poor, the hard cap is explicitly hard because you Cannot go over it, the rules don't allow it other than by end of season salary raises. It forces you to manage the team rather than just keeping all the talent, upping the hard cap, or doing so effectively by lowering mad contracts promotes keeping any players you develop, because you can easily afford them. If you can't afford that fourth star, you probably don't want to let him walk for free. As I said though if anything it's too generous, teams already have a pretty easy time hoarding talent

[Brophdog88]

Wait, so your response is an attempt to insult me?

I asked you a question after you nitpicked over percentage of teams.

You explicitly stated 1/3rd of the league was within 5 million of the hard cap, not 5 million and change, and I pointed out you were clearly not stating the truth, as less than 1/4th the teams were, with evidence. If you are going to try to get a rule changed, don't lie about the basis for it. Even in the follow up you lied. There are 8 teams within 5 and change, and 3 including that team within the three million window expansion...not 9 and 4-5

You don't have time to post in any of the sim threads this season but you add up all the team's salaries? C'mon man. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you.

Bottomline is I'm trying to promote league activity. I've basically sat on my team for the past 2-3 seasons because it's so difficult to trade in this league due to disparity in contracts and hard cap.

You get teams like the Rockets who sign dudes to 1 year max's and can never trade them due to the salary being so high. You want to call that mismanagement?
The 76ers don't have any gross contracts on their team but they couldn't do anything in the offseason because they are so close to the hard cap. So I guess he's just gonna sit on his team all year and then let guys walk at season's end.

Should highways have people driving at 100mph and say well if you crash your car you mismanaged driving? No we have speed limits! We should have max contract limits.

The 76ers have 4 guys they gave max or close to max contracts, and you're saying they should be able to hand out more?

You had 4 guys on max contracts until you were able to move Johnson(still lulz), and you want to just have more money to spend?

We do have speed limits, it's called the Hard cap.

Just allowing single teams to have 5 or 6 or 7 guys on max contracts is ridiculous, this makes you actually have to choose who you keep and who you let walk. You have to decide, does that guy deserve a max or does he deserve only 7-8 mil.

And it's not like the 76ers don't also have 2 guys in the 5.5 mil range on top of their 4. I have 4 guys in that range on top of my 4 in the max range.

You say promote league activity, but allowing singular teams to build massive salaried loaded teams would make for less and less activity.

You're missing the point. The range in salaries is too large it prohibits teams from bettering their team through free agency or trades. The by product is inactivity.

If there was a cap on vet max contracts you'd still be able adjust the hard cap accordingly to scale but you'd increase teams chances to be active in trading.

If max deals always were 1/4 of cap regardless of experience and guys over 30 could only be maxed for 3 years we'd have a ton more healthy activity in offseason and in season. Teams would be more inclined to improve their team as a guy with 7 mil contract, MLE, and Vet FA could land you a vet max player. Great for buyers and sellers.

Dudes wouldn't be sitting on players forever like Zyme did with Muresean nor would guys like Michael Finley be an albatross for a team for 4-5 years because he declined at 32 on the front end of his deal.

Where is the harm?

We have been over this before, teams are not obligated to keep vets, putting themselves in a position where they can't is poor management. If they don't like the potential contract they may have to offer (which they don't, I've covered that) they can trade the player to somebody who does, but obviously shouldn't dxpect the same value as if the guy was locked up for 5 years cheap. One of the downsides of old players is they get expensive, meaning you cannot hoard multiple guys for their entire career without working in guys on rookie deals, which has the downside of then needing to pay those roomies, forcing movement, or you hoard them and are stuck in mediocrity which should force you to trade. The ability to hold players for longer with no consequence should not be made easier.

[dave]

There are 9 teams within 5 and change. Another 4-5 within another 3 mil. It's growing...

Are you one of those people who believe climate change isn't real?

Wait, so your response is an attempt to insult me?

I asked you a question after you nitpicked over percentage of teams.

You explicitly stated 1/3rd of the league was within 5 million of the hard cap, not 5 million and change, and I pointed out you were clearly not stating the truth, as less than 1/4th the teams were, with evidence. If you are going to try to get a rule changed, don't lie about the basis for it. Even in the follow up you lied. There are 8 teams within 5 and change, and 3 including that team within the three million window expansion...not 9 and 4-5

You don't have time to post in any of the sim threads this season but you add up all the team's salaries? C'mon man. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you.

Bottomline is I'm trying to promote league activity. I've basically sat on my team for the past 2-3 seasons because it's so difficult to trade in this league due to disparity in contracts and hard cap.

You get teams like the Rockets who sign dudes to 1 year max's and can never trade them due to the salary being so high. You want to call that mismanagement?
The 76ers don't have any gross contracts on their team but they couldn't do anything in the offseason because they are so close to the hard cap. So I guess he's just gonna sit on his team all year and then let guys walk at season's end.

Should highways have people driving at 100mph and say well if you crash your car you mismanaged driving? No we have speed limits! We should have max contract limits.

It was really difficult to spend the two minutes looking at

http://ducksattack.com/DASL/salaryneeds.htm

, annoyingly however, that used the majority of the time I have available since I am limited to my phone and not home

The speed limit analogy is poor, the hard cap is explicitly hard because you Cannot go over it, the rules don't allow it other than by end of season salary raises. It forces you to manage the team rather than just keeping all the talent, upping the hard cap, or doing so effectively by lowering mad contracts promotes keeping any players you develop, because you can easily afford them. If you can't afford that fourth star, you probably don't want to let him walk for free. As I said though if anything it's too generous, teams already have a pretty easy time hoarding talent

The reason why teams are hoarding is because of salary disparity.

A: You cap the vet max
B: You raise hard cap

I think it's much easier to do A