z99clark11 wrote:Rad trained you to be in great shape for your position. I was in great shape to burst ten yards, change directions, and burst ten more yards. I died playing basketball. Couldn't run a mile without sucking wind. But man could I burst. At Juco I was in tremendous life shape. I could run, I could jump, I could play basketball. I was just in all around better shape. The guys who got hurt during these workouts are the big guys who are in "burst" shape, not real shape.
Thanks for the insight. Appreciated!
Us fans are going to stay a lot of stupid things around here armchair QB'ing, but we hope you stick around.
I'm going with the players responses to this, not the media's opinion or some of the posters who were not at the workouts. Putting all the tweets together including the ones who went to the hospital, it was a case where competitive athletes pushed themselves to hard. I'm sure there were players who thought they were in better shape than they thought they were in and found out the hard way they were not. They were allowed to take breaks as they needed and a few didn't take enough. These are young competitive men and testosterone got the better of them in my opinion. Putting the blame on the training staff when you were not their and don't know what was said or the options given when every player who has said something publicly has owned that it was on them to take breaks and they pushed themselves to far. That being said this is a wake up call and definitely an opportunity for the athletic department to step up and come up with some sort of system or device that can monitor individual players physical strain during workouts to protect the athletes (not just FB) from both coaches and themselves. This IMO is far from any kind of intentional abuse of players.
After reading a little on Rhabdom the signs and symptoms are the same as when someone over exerts themselves to the point of puking, cramping, sore, fainting, etc. which is fairly common and happens across the country every year at this time of year. Except for the red/brown urine (I pee before and after my workouts not during) it's not something that could of been known without a blood or urine test and until now have never heard of it.
rsbgduck wrote:I'm going with the players responses to this, not the media's opinion or some of the posters who were not at the workouts. Putting all the tweets together including the ones who went to the hospital, it was a case where competitive athletes pushed themselves to hard. I'm sure there were players who thought they were in better shape than they thought they were in and found out the hard way they were not. They were allowed to take breaks as they needed and a few didn't take enough. These are young competitive men and testosterone got the better of them in my opinion. Putting the blame on the training staff when you were not their and don't know what was said or the options given when every player who has said something publicly has owned that it was on them to take breaks and they pushed themselves to far. That being said this is a wake up call and definitely an opportunity for the athletic department to step up and come up with some sort of system or device that can monitor individual players physical strain during workouts to protect the athletes (not just FB) from both coaches and themselves. This IMO is far from any kind of intentional abuse of players.
After reading a little on Rhabdom the signs and symptoms are the same as when someone over exerts themselves to the point of puking, cramping, sore, fainting, etc. which is fairly common and happens across the country every year at this time of year. Except for the red/brown urine (I pee before and after my workouts not during) it's not something that could of been known without a blood or urine test and until now have never heard of it.
Keep making excuses. The fact of the matter is that a S&C coach needs to know exactly how far to push, and when to let off. He's highly paid, and should be highly trained. Coach Rad was highly trained. He used science to dictate his regime. I'll be very interested to learn what qualifications coach O has.
I don't blame the kids one bit. They pushed themselves beyond what their bodies could handle. To blame them for going too far is pathetic. They rely on highly trained coaches to know the difference between the edge and hospitalized.
OregonDonor, these are new coaches who are spending half their time on campus and half on the road (if not more). They are getting used to the players and do not know them as well so you have to figure that all the money in the world will not give them immediate knowledge on what is too much for a particular player. Maybe Freeman is a monster while Herbert is Mister Twinkle-toes? Who knows? Plus, you're jumping to conclusions (ironic in light of your post) about how the coaches are to blame. The players themselves have said the coaches didn't push them to the edge.
rsbgduck wrote:I'm going with the players responses to this, not the media's opinion or some of the posters who were not at the workouts. Putting all the tweets together including the ones who went to the hospital, it was a case where competitive athletes pushed themselves to hard. I'm sure there were players who thought they were in better shape than they thought they were in and found out the hard way they were not. They were allowed to take breaks as they needed and a few didn't take enough. These are young competitive men and testosterone got the better of them in my opinion. Putting the blame on the training staff when you were not their and don't know what was said or the options given when every player who has said something publicly has owned that it was on them to take breaks and they pushed themselves to far. That being said this is a wake up call and definitely an opportunity for the athletic department to step up and come up with some sort of system or device that can monitor individual players physical strain during workouts to protect the athletes (not just FB) from both coaches and themselves. This IMO is far from any kind of intentional abuse of players.
After reading a little on Rhabdom the signs and symptoms are the same as when someone over exerts themselves to the point of puking, cramping, sore, fainting, etc. which is fairly common and happens across the country every year at this time of year. Except for the red/brown urine (I pee before and after my workouts not during) it's not something that could of been known without a blood or urine test and until now have never heard of it.
Keep making excuses. The fact of the matter is that a S&C coach needs to know exactly how far to push, and when to let off. He's highly paid, and should be highly trained. Coach Rad was highly trained. He used science to dictate his regime. I'll be very interested to learn what qualifications coach O has.
I don't blame the kids one bit. They pushed themselves beyond what their bodies could handle. To blame them for going too far is pathetic. They rely on highly trained coaches to know the difference between the edge and hospitalized.
From what I've found, he's never had a case of rhabdomyolysis at any of his other stops. While the S&C coaches and trainers are monitoring things and likely did everything they could to keep the players safe, it's also up to the players to know when they've reached their limits and take a break. I'm not sure how saying they went too far or got too competitive is pathetic. It's a perfectly legitimate explanation as to why it happened. I'm sure the whole team and department have had a discussion about it to prevent this from happening again.
hjpop wrote:OregonDonor, these are new coaches who are spending half their time on campus and half on the road (if not more). They are getting used to the players and do not know them as well so you have to figure that all the money in the world will not give them immediate knowledge on what is too much for a particular player. Maybe Freeman is a monster while Herbert is Mister Twinkle-toes? Who knows? Plus, you're jumping to conclusions (ironic in light of your post) about how the coaches are to blame. The players themselves have said the coaches didn't push them to the edge.
It's the coaches job to take care of them. They didn't put themselves in the hospital on voluntarily workouts. Stop being an apologist.
hjpop wrote:OregonDonor, these are new coaches who are spending half their time on campus and half on the road (if not more). They are getting used to the players and do not know them as well so you have to figure that all the money in the world will not give them immediate knowledge on what is too much for a particular player. Maybe Freeman is a monster while Herbert is Mister Twinkle-toes? Who knows? Plus, you're jumping to conclusions (ironic in light of your post) about how the coaches are to blame. The players themselves have said the coaches didn't push them to the edge.
It's the coaches job to take care of them. They didn't put themselves in the hospital on voluntarily workouts. Stop being an apologist.
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Just because he's not thinking the same way as you, he's not being an apologist. He's giving plausible and likely explanations for why this happened. It's not only one person/persons fault for what happened. Like the players have said, this thing is getting blown out of proportion.
hjpop wrote:OregonDonor, these are new coaches who are spending half their time on campus and half on the road (if not more). They are getting used to the players and do not know them as well so you have to figure that all the money in the world will not give them immediate knowledge on what is too much for a particular player. Maybe Freeman is a monster while Herbert is Mister Twinkle-toes? Who knows? Plus, you're jumping to conclusions (ironic in light of your post) about how the coaches are to blame. The players themselves have said the coaches didn't push them to the edge.
It's the coaches job to take care of them. They didn't put themselves in the hospital on voluntarily workouts. Stop being an apologist.
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Just because he's not thinking the same way as you, he's not being an apologist. He's giving plausible and likely explanations for why this happened. It's not only one person/persons fault for what happened. Like the players have said, this thing is getting blown out of proportion.
If it were your kid I bet you'd think differently. You trust them to know just how hard to push them without putting them in the hospital.
Of course the kids are going to defend the workouts. Most of them could handle it, and they're all full of testosterone and wanting to be the best they can be. No one wants to be the pussy that couldn't hang. They're amateurs. And they depend on professionals to push them to be great without hurting them.
All I'm saying is that if you had a kid that wanted to go as hard as he could and let a coach push him beyond his limits and he got hurt you wouldn't be happy.
As a D1 athlete you need to know when to put your ego aside and take a breather. During fall camp Helfrich ran a very similar workout/challenge where the whole team did up-downs until only 1 person was left standing. Everyone was so pumped about how Prukop was one of the final few left and how it showed he'd be a strong leader. No one batted an eye about that workout though. If I'm a parent I want my kid to have a coach that pushes him beyond their limit not just to as Zac said "burst shape" because I would trust my kid to be responsible enough to be one of the 109 of 112 that stops to get some water and rest.
chipkellysballs wrote:As a D1 athlete you need to know when to put your ego aside and take a breather. During fall camp Helfrich ran a very similar workout/challenge where the whole team did up-downs until only 1 person was left standing. Everyone was so pumped about how Prukop was one of the final few left and how it showed he'd be a strong leader. No one batted an eye about that workout though. If I'm a parent I want my kid to have a coach that pushes him beyond their limit not just to as Zac said "burst shape" because I would trust my kid to be responsible enough to be one of the 109 of 112 that stops to get some water and rest.
I've actually ran that drill/workout with a football team of 12-14 yr olds it's actually a really good drill to help figure out who your leaders on a team.
z99clark11 wrote:Rad trained you to be in great shape for your position. I was in great shape to burst ten yards, change directions, and burst ten more yards. I died playing basketball. Couldn't run a mile without sucking wind. But man could I burst. At Juco I was in tremendous life shape. I could run, I could jump, I could play basketball. I was just in all around better shape. The guys who got hurt during these workouts are the big guys who are in "burst" shape, not real shape.
Thanks for the insight. Appreciated!
Us fans are going to stay a lot of stupid things around here armchair QB'ing, but we hope you stick around.
Seconded. Please use the armchair QB'ing as a way to educate us lol. I'd certainly appreciate being better informed about how a football program actually works.
Taggert had to know this media frenzy has been coming for a few days. I hope he has all the answers. Behind the eight ball starting conversation with this is not what it seems.
I did not express this elsewhere, but I should make it clear my primary hope is that the afflicted players get better and that this is actually as benign as the tweets by current players suggest. If it was indeed a case of the three players pushing themselves too hard (i.e. not taking a break when allowed and necessary), all they need to do is sit down with Taggart and Oderinde, figure out what happened, and take the necessary steps to prevent it from recurring.
DUCKYfromOREGON wrote:Taggert had to know this media frenzy has been coming for a few days. I hope he has all the answers. Behind the eight ball starting conversation with this is not what it seems.
If we're being honest, I don't think it's a major issue because I'd guess recruits are much more likely to listen to current players (i.e their peers who are actually experiencing the conditioning workouts) on the subject than they are some middle-aged media member. We've seen a pretty uniform (and hopefully authentic) message coming from the team that this is a non-issue, and I think that is really all that is needed to indicate this isn't going to damage the recruiting efforts. Bad optics maybe, but not among those who matter.
This whole thing took place at the end of last week so I'm sure it's already been addressed by Taggart, Oderinde, the AD, and the rest of the training staff.
