Why are people destroying cities?

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pudgejeff
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

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lukeyrid13 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
Wait, are you victim blaming right now?
George Floyd or Philando Castile, not remotely. Those were both egregious and murder.

Ray shard Brooks would still be alive if he was compliant. Maybe we disagree in that, but I feel strongly on that one.

In regards to overall, I think it would be disingenuous to say that police have been treated with any respect the past month or two. It’s no appropriate to scream obscenities at officers and act with total disregard and disrespect. The problem, is that many are encouraging it and emboldening that behavior. Again, we may agree to disagree but the lack of regard for common decency and blatant vitriol towards our fellow man and fellow officers is disheartening and setting a very very poor trend to our future.
I mean it was a simple question, and your answer was yes. You can choose to defend that however you like, was just confirming what you were meaning in the first post. Compliance is relative, and I agree 100% people being more compliant will lead to less altercations and less cops getting in trouble. But on the flip side, we've seen what happens when people start saying, "yes sir, no sir" only, and that's not good.

Those same things are done to workers and in all industries on a daily basis, yet if any other than a cop decided to react in a physical manner they would be fired immediately and more often than not charged with a crime. Officers are not above the law, and don't deserve any more respect than a fellow man(which I agree, should be more than we give currently), and aren't in any way shape or form(most of all legally) given the ability to punish someone for not respecting them.
I think we just disagree a lot, and that’s ok. We can have diversity of opinions.

In what way is just saying “yes sir, no sir” considered a total failure?
It's been proven time and time again throughout history both ancient and current, that when people stop asking questions and blindly follow the lead of people in power, i.e. Government/Police/Employers/Bosses, it leads to abuse of said power and worsening issues. As I said before, compliance is relative, and it's not always a bad thing. To be fair, in my opinion it's more often than not a good thing. But when there begins to be abuse of power and issues, compliance isn't always the best option or even a good option.
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pudgejeff
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

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dd10snoop28 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
Wait, are you victim blaming right now?
If you want to suppress a group of people from rising up and overcoming their circumstances, tell them they are a victim and that you are there to help them..... and then disappear for the next 4 years.
I love your interjections with out of context quotes and comments. Please continue, they give me a good chuckle.
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dd10snoop28
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

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pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
Wait, are you victim blaming right now?
George Floyd or Philando Castile, not remotely. Those were both egregious and murder.

Ray shard Brooks would still be alive if he was compliant. Maybe we disagree in that, but I feel strongly on that one.

In regards to overall, I think it would be disingenuous to say that police have been treated with any respect the past month or two. It’s no appropriate to scream obscenities at officers and act with total disregard and disrespect. The problem, is that many are encouraging it and emboldening that behavior. Again, we may agree to disagree but the lack of regard for common decency and blatant vitriol towards our fellow man and fellow officers is disheartening and setting a very very poor trend to our future.
I mean it was a simple question, and your answer was yes. You can choose to defend that however you like, was just confirming what you were meaning in the first post. Compliance is relative, and I agree 100% people being more compliant will lead to less altercations and less cops getting in trouble. But on the flip side, we've seen what happens when people start saying, "yes sir, no sir" only, and that's not good.

Those same things are done to workers and in all industries on a daily basis, yet if any other than a cop decided to react in a physical manner they would be fired immediately and more often than not charged with a crime. Officers are not above the law, and don't deserve any more respect than a fellow man(which I agree, should be more than we give currently), and aren't in any way shape or form(most of all legally) given the ability to punish someone for not respecting them.
I think we just disagree a lot, and that’s ok. We can have diversity of opinions.

In what way is just saying “yes sir, no sir” considered a total failure?
It's been proven time and time again throughout history both ancient and current, that when people stop asking questions and blindly follow the lead of people in power, i.e. Government/Police/Employers/Bosses, it leads to abuse of said power and worsening issues. As I said before, compliance is relative, and it's not always a bad thing. To be fair, in my opinion it's more often than not a good thing. But when there begins to be abuse of power and issues, compliance isn't always the best option or even a good option.
Agreed. Good point. Tjhere is a balance to be how police should be.... policing.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by dd10snoop28 »

pudgejeff wrote:
dd10snoop28 wrote:
I mean it was a simple question, and your answer was yes. You can choose to defend that however you like, was just confirming what you were meaning in the first post. Compliance is relative, and I agree 100% people being more compliant will lead to less altercations and less cops getting in trouble. But on the flip side, we've seen what happens when people start saying, "yes sir, no sir" only, and that's not good.
Those same things are done to workers and in all industries on a daily basis, yet if any other than a cop decided to react in a physical manner they would be fired immediately and more often than not charged with a crime. Officers are not above the law, and don't deserve any more respect than a fellow man(which I agree, should be more than we give currently), and aren't in any way shape or form(most of all legally) given the ability to punish someone for not respecting them.
Sorry, pudge, but that's a terrible comparison. You can't compare a regular-working job with that of a police officer. The police have a job to enforce the law. It's a dangerous job. Most other workers do not have their life on the live every day.

Want a good example when the police choose NOT to enforce the law? Look at the statistics for the month of July in every single high-population city in the United States. Look at CHAZ. Look at crime in Portland the last 3 weeks. Look at multitude of videos of mobs committing crime after crime and the police not intervening because democratically-led cities are telling them to stand down.
Exuse me? This is what I responded to "It’s no appropriate to scream obscenities at officers and act with total disregard and disrespect.". It's a very specifically apt comparison. There is no law against any of that, so I'm not sure why brought any of that up?

We got on for days about the choosing not to enforce the law. It seems like a lot, and also we probably agree on a lot of it, as the only one of those I'm actually privy to information about is CHAZ or whatever it's last name was and I thought it was one of the most absurd things I've ever seen. Utopia's don't exist.
Sorry. Didn't see what u were specifically responding to. I got u now.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by dd10snoop28 »

pudgejeff wrote:
dd10snoop28 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
Wait, are you victim blaming right now?
If you want to suppress a group of people from rising up and overcoming their circumstances, tell them they are a victim and that you are there to help them..... and then disappear for the next 4 years.
I love your interjections with out of context quotes and comments. Please continue, they give me a good chuckle.
Yes, my previous comment was out of context. Not this one.

See topic of discussion for the few posts previous to you and lukey's posts.
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pudgejeff
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by pudgejeff »

dd10snoop28 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
dd10snoop28 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
Wait, are you victim blaming right now?
If you want to suppress a group of people from rising up and overcoming their circumstances, tell them they are a victim and that you are there to help them..... and then disappear for the next 4 years.
I love your interjections with out of context quotes and comments. Please continue, they give me a good chuckle.
Yes, my previous comment was out of context. Not this one.

See topic of discussion for the few posts previous to you and lukey's posts.
I took his comment of victim blaming, to after they had been a victim of police brutatlity/overreach for not being compliant and that what was discussed after that so I assumed that's what we were talking about. He doesn't seem to be talking about the people or culture in general.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by lukeyrid13 »

pudgejeff wrote:
dd10snoop28 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
dd10snoop28 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
Wait, are you victim blaming right now?
If you want to suppress a group of people from rising up and overcoming their circumstances, tell them they are a victim and that you are there to help them..... and then disappear for the next 4 years.
I love your interjections with out of context quotes and comments. Please continue, they give me a good chuckle.
Yes, my previous comment was out of context. Not this one.

See topic of discussion for the few posts previous to you and lukey's posts.
I took his comment of victim blaming, to after they had been a victim of police brutatlity/overreach for not being compliant and that what was discussed after that so I assumed that's what we were talking about. He doesn't seem to be talking about the people or culture in general.
I was speaking of general populous with my initial statements and then in regards to the “yes sir, no sir” responses to police.

Again, in no way was I trying to blame George Floyd or anyone or any incident similar. There’s been a number of corresponding messages, but overall, my main point, is treat others with respect.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

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Cops trying to do everything to cater to his needs, including rolling the windows down for him because he is claustrophobic and can't breathe sitting in a car (even though he was sitting in a car at the time of arrest and could breathe then).

Disclaimer, still think behavior by Chauvin was wrong and should be addressed. But the full video gives a much better taste on the lack of compliance leading up to an sad ending.

Of course, media won't show this in full.

Do Not Fear. Isaiah 41:13
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by Phalanx »

If one can slog through the whole thing, this is an interesting article on the Floyd case and the possible outcome of the murder charges:

https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-de ... e2ad8d0911

It is interesting how many facts are starting to trickle out now that the emotional reaction to the video has perhaps died down somewhat.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by FlDuckFan »

Phalanx wrote:If one can slog through the whole thing, this is an interesting article on the Floyd case and the possible outcome of the murder charges:

https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-de ... e2ad8d0911

It is interesting how many facts are starting to trickle out now that the emotional reaction to the video has perhaps died down somewhat.
Good read thank you for the link.
While the officers may still be found guilty of manslaughter, the probability of a guilty verdict for the murder charge is low, and the public should be aware of this well in advance of the verdict.
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lukeyrid13
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by lukeyrid13 »

^ 2nd degree murder is not the right charge. 3rd degree, negligent homicide or reckless manslaughter would be the proper charges.

The sad thing is, that a DA is likely going to try and overcharge Chauvin to try and appease the masses.......but then when the charges are found not guilty or dropped to a lesser degree, we will see riots in the streets all over again and the masses will be anything but appeased. No one is really talking about it now, but it was really poor foresight on the part of that DA in my opinion.
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