Why are people destroying cities?

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UOducksTK1
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Why are people destroying cities?

Post by UOducksTK1 »

-George Floyd has been to jail over 5 times before.
-George Floyd has broken into woman's home and pointed a gun at her stomach and forcing her into a room while his buddies helped rob her. Another one of his buddies punched her to knock her out.
-George Floyd resisted stating he won't enter the cops car because he is claustrophobic (but didn't he have a car to get to the store?)
-George Floyd committed a crime, and police responded to the call (Yes, sometimes fake bills are used unintentionally, but with Floyd's background, it's reasonable to assume he gave the fraud money intentionally)
-In last 4 years, blacks are killed by cops 698 times. Whites are killed by cops 1268 times. Put blacks make up only 13% of population. But then blacks actually commit more violent crimes than any other race. When you boil it down, blacks commit way more violent crimes than any other race, so makes sense that they are killed at a high rate by cops. https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/ https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-43
-93% of blacks killed by blacks (https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... mmit-crime)
-Examples like this are actually far more frequent than you think. Media just doesn't comment on it. Where is the riots for this injustice? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/us/m ... rdict.html
-Black cops are just as likely as white cops to kill black suspects https://www.bleausa.org/black-cops-are- ... -suspects/ (article done by a black man)
-A black police officer was killed last week during the riots. He had a good background and was actually a good dude, this is unjust. But no media coverage... https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/fed ... n-oakland/
-The dude that kneed Floyd to death (Chauvin), has also targeted white people. Pulling a gun on white teenagers when they were playing with nerf guns.
-The media was condemning protests to open the government (in cali and other states) a few weeks ago, because they were going to spread coronavirus. But all these protests in response to George Floyd are not being condemned by the media even though they are certainly not social distancing. Ironically, antifa would go to protests advocating the government to reopen, to protest against them. lol. Again, the irony. Media doesn't care about our health, they care about their narrative and agenda.

Chauvin obviously isn't fit to be a cop. He's had a past of mishandling situations. However, I think he would have done what he did even if the person was white. He completely mishandled this situation, but the narrative that Floyd is a completely innocent man (past issues) and didn't do anything at all to resist (he still technically resisted) and that Chauvin is huge racist (lol) is not true.

When in reality, almost all police shootings/killings have guns involved by the victims. Almost all police shootings have the victims resisting or running. Almost all police shooting are a response to a crime that was committed. Almost all police shootings include a victim with a criminal history. Moral of the story is: In all police shooting scenarios.... if you don't run and haven't committed a crime and don't resist arrest, I'd say 95%+ of the police shootings wouldn't have happened.

There are more studies done to show poverty is linked to crime way more than race. So instead of the media and our government trying to cause division is evil. They should be putting their energy into poverty areas (REGARDLESS OF WHITE OR BLACK), to help get those people into situations to thrive and out of crime.

PS I'm married into a black family (my wife's sister married into a black family, still counts) so I now have the authority to discuss black issues and middle eastern issues. For those of you who are not black or married into a black family, or are not middle eastern or married into a middle eastern family, you are not allowed to talk about this. Talk about your white issues only, thanks! (sarcasm)

Also I don't doubt there are racist police out there, just like there are white racists, black racists, etc. But as a whole, these shootings have far less to do with racism than our media likes it to sound. They are doing a good job though of getting people riled up. Once their corona coverage died down, they had to find a social justice issue to blow up.

I know my thoughts aren't popular. But it is the offseason and there are no sports. Forgive me if I don't respond to rebuttals. But I will at least read all posts in response to this. At the end of the day, I want America to do well, and to help everyone enjoy the freedoms here. And even though George Floyd wasn't a perfect dude, I did hear he was trying to get his life around, so it's really sad for him to die the way he did. And I do hope Chauvin gets some jail time for using extreme excessive force. I want justice, but I also want truth and facts. Have a good one friends!

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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by FlDuckFan »

I'd love to see the data on how many times a cop is charged when killing someone on duty, and then extrapolated by race of the victim. Using fake bills is not a death sentence, it's good to see the police being held accountable. I think the issue in Georgia with the man being chased and then killed is a bigger problem in our country. How do so many people refuse to investigate and charge someone in that case . ..


I could be wrong with everything, but I'll never check this post again.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by duck55 »

TK,
This study reinforces your theory on demographics as well.

Instead of using population, Cesario analyzed variables such as the race of the police officers, crime rates, and the racial demographics of locations where police shootings happened in 2015. From that, he derived that black and Latino victims of police killings were more likely to have been shot by black and Latino cops, and that ”might not be due to bias on the part of Black or Hispanic officers, but instead to simple overlap between officer and county demographics.”
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/08/ ... ta/595528/
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by UOducksTK1 »

FlDuckFan wrote:I'd love to see the data on how many times a cop is charged when killing someone on duty, and then extrapolated by race of the victim. Using fake bills is not a death sentence, it's good to see the police being held accountable. I think the issue in Georgia with the man being chased and then killed is a bigger problem in our country. How do so many people refuse to investigate and charge someone in that case . ..


I could be wrong with everything, but I'll never check this post again.
Certainly police should be held accountable. What Chauvin did was so wrong, and he's going to go to jail for it. I'm just more curious about the reaction, the narrative, the racism, the media, etc.

No one here would say Chauvin acted correctly. He killed a man by using excessive force, for like you pointed out, using a fake bill.

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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by UOducksTK1 »

duck55 wrote:TK,
This study reinforces your theory on demographics as well.

Instead of using population, Cesario analyzed variables such as the race of the police officers, crime rates, and the racial demographics of locations where police shootings happened in 2015. From that, he derived that black and Latino victims of police killings were more likely to have been shot by black and Latino cops, and that ”might not be due to bias on the part of Black or Hispanic officers, but instead to simple overlap between officer and county demographics.”
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/08/ ... ta/595528/
Thanks for sharing. I am just curious why we do very little to help areas of poverty. It baffles me that we talk about so many issues, but rarely attend to this issue. Do politicians just see the high poverty areas as a lost cause?

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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by duck55 »

TK,
I view the world wide reaction as a combination of several factors:

1) Disgust with the blatant disregard for the safety of a person already subdued and in custody.
2) Frustration and/or boredom from being quarantined for 3 months.
3) A small group of people bent on destruction/ resistance or hatred of authority in general that look for any opportunity to protest.
4) Lack of fear in ever being charged with a crime if caught.
5) Bias against all police due to the evils of a few.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by lukeyrid13 »

duck55 wrote:TK,
I view the world wide reaction as a combination of several factors:

1) Disgust with the blatant disregard for the safety of a person already subdued and in custody.
2) Frustration and/or boredom from being quarantined for 3 months.
3) A small group of people bent on destruction/ resistance or hatred of authority in general that look for any opportunity to protest.
4) Lack of fear in ever being charged with a crime if caught.
5) Bias against all police due to the evils of a few.
6. Media and general populous that encourages disdain/revolting against 'foes'
7. Piggybacking of the varying protests. Each time seems to gain steam/followers. IMO, all of the protestors are the same that were at womens march, inaguration marches, stormy daniels marches etc. They tend to snowball on top of each other despite the varying circumstances. Free speech and assembly are protected but permits are required for gatherings. Those are largely now ignored which leads to revolting
8. Media narratives - all sides craft their own but I saw a clip showing 20+ reporters all stating how peaceful the protests were. Look at the list of police injured/killed in these 'protests' and it's anything but peaceful
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by duck55 »

Agreed on all points.
I flipped the news on last night and heard the reporter talking about how peaceful and law abiding all the protesters were as some guy blurted out a few words not suitable for small children started spray painting a giant F U C on the building behind her before the camera moved.
I would not want to live downtown with all that going on.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by nogerO »

Agree 100% TK.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by StevensTechU »

I'm not writing to change your mind, TK, but I'll write in order for those reading this thread to not think this is a one-sided issue where protestors are being illogical. If you'd like to respond directly to me, go for it, but unless I think you bring up something that I need to specifically respond to, it'll probably go unanswered.

You don't seem to be arguing that there is widespread police brutality / overuse of force, so we can start there.

In the age of camera phones and body cams, we've all seen a lot of disturbing videos (if we're willing to watch them). Many black victims, many white, many brown. Chris Rock made the joke that if you're United Airlines and most of your pilots are good but there are a few bad apples who fly into mountains, that's not acceptable, and that policing should be viewed the same way. You don't score points for getting it 'mostly' right. What we see by the sheer number of videos is that there are quite a few bad apples, spread out across the country. I've personally watched the videos of police shooting a 20-something exterminator who was crawling on the ground per the cop's order because the cop was jumpy, watched a cop choke two men literally to death despite them not presenting any threat, and read about cops shooting a man to death who was trying to break up a fight (that last one here in Portland). That's just a tiny sample, and those that have been documented. So it's clear to me that police overuse deadly force, and that is something that, on its own, warrants reform, and failing that, warrants public backlash. Cops shouldn't be killing people who pose no threat and doing so is the ultimate violation of our personal freedoms. Period.

Lets say that police brutality is agnostic to color, meaning police do not intentionally assault or shoot a person of color intentionally any more than they shoot or assault caucasion people. What we do know is that police interact with people of color, specifically blacks, much more than they do white people. They patrol their neighborhoods more, they are more likely to stop them for questioning, and more likely to say they fit the description of a 'suspect in the area.' Now, if all interactions, white or black, have the same chance of ending in police brutality, then just on the simple fact that blacks are more likely to interact with police, you can see how blacks are more likely to be on the receiving end of police brutality. This says nothing of intention and speaks only to logic, but you see now how police brutality is an issue of race and racism.

Now lets go one step further. Police are able to use a lot of discretion in enforcing the law, so even though the same laws apply to everyone, application is malleable. I have two brothers who were active duty in the military for over a decade each. Despite routinely driving over the speed limit, and sometimes getting caught, neither ever received a speeding ticket. As members of the military, often being pulled over by former members of the military, the willingness to let things slide is greater. The reason is that when we see someone in a particular light, we're more likely to look for the good in them and be willing to acknowledge an incident as an isolated mistake. That same sense of perspective can work the opposite way. If we read about how blacks make up a fraction of the population but are responsible for half the murders in the country, and we don't have some more impactful experience to overwrite that kind of narrative in our mind, then when an incident occurs involving a black person, that person is more likely to be punished to the full extent of the law. The officer - black or white or other - is more likely to consider that person the rule, not the exception like they do my military brothers. We see this phenomena statistically in the courtroom - blacks are given longer sentences for the same crimes as whites. You can argue with me but you can't argue with numbers.

Part of your suggestion is that if a black cop shoots a black victim, it can't be racism. Why can't it? Statistically speaking, it's been shown that black restaurant-goers tip black servers less than they tip white servers. Is that not racism? Is it more likely to say that white servers must be better than black servers? Is it not more believable that the black cop is affected by knowledge of the same statistics - that blacks are more likely to commit murder than whites - and reacts in a similar way as the white cops?

If we resolve the issue of police brutality against the black community, we're likely to resolve the issue of police brutality as a whole. I don't see where the issue is there. Perhaps one day in a distant future, we'll be talking about under-policing, but that is most definitely not where we are today.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by woundedknees »

W>E.B DuBois was my step-dad's cousin.

Not saying that to brag or justify any thoughts or comments (No, I am not a person of color, nor do I claim special knowledge.)

I have multiple police and corrections officers in my family. All of them a well educated (college graduates), and very well trained. One is a chief of police here in Oregon, another is head of a youth corrections facility.

We also have multiple teachers and school administrators in the extended family. One is superintendent of the largest school district in the state he resides in.

I spent time as a deputy sheriff, myself. I departed the profession unwillingly after being ordered by a superior to falsify documents in a manner that would have cost another (innocent) deputy her job.

We have found that there are always "bad eggs" in EVERY profession. There are individuals who get through the hiring/training process of law enforcement without being identified as problematic, who, IMO, should never have worn a badge.

I am aware of individuals who have willingly overstepped their duty, training, and responsibility, to use excessive force in some manner.

These individuals should be dealt with the same as any other law breaker. The fact that it doesn't consistently happen everywhere is a sad thing for all of us.

In no way, shape or form, does this justify the violence and wanton destruction, looting, and mob mentality we see in action at this time.

Our country is struggling. It is suffering.

What we are witnessing heals nothing.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by Phenom »

This is an extremely troubling and ignorant post. I have been a member of this forum for a long, long time, but after this I can longer post here. Educate yourself, TK.

Bye, everyone.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by lukeyrid13 »

In 2019, 9 unarmed black men were killed by police, 3 of those were not fleeing. One had a firearm in his vehicle that he fled. George Floyd was unjustly killed and Chauvin has been and should be charged. My opinion, but it’s intellectually dishonest to say that “they’re killing all of us”. 7500 African Americans were murdered in 2019 by African Americans. Cops are killed by African Americans at 18x the rate of unarmed black men being killed by cops.

Again, just my opinion, but we are making the exception out to be the rule. Chauvin was justly charged, what are we truly fighting at this point.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by Tray Dub »

What is being fought is the experience black people have of being routinely mistreated by police. The vast majority of black people say that is their experience. I, for one, think I should listen to them.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by Quietduck »

Shouting "you're wrong" as you slam the door never convinces anyone. If you disagree with someone either say I can't agree with you or show them why they are wrong with facts, not opinion. Everyone can be right or wrong but if you can't deal with someone else's opinion leave if you must but do so with a reasonable attitude.

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Last edited by Quietduck on Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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