Why are people destroying cities?

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lukeyrid13
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by lukeyrid13 »

Biggus Duckus wrote:Police should not be enforcing fare on mass transit. 5 cops harassing an individual for $5 is not a good use of money or the police, and affects mainly poor people. Or even 1 cop.
Fair

Police should not be called on people experiencing houselessness but otherwise not committing crimes.
Who would do this instead?

Police should not be used to detain people with drug addictions or mental health issues unless there is an imminent threat.
Who should be called when a 'sketchy' homeless man is wandering next to say a daycare? Or when someone who clearly suffers from mental illness is in the middle of the street with a weapon of some kind?

Police should not be called to the scene of a fender bender in order to write a report based on witness statements.
Agreed

Police should not have qualified immunity. They should not be investigated for misconduct by police or former police. This leads to many settlements which are all footed by the taxpayers, or misconduct that is swept under the rug.
Agreed
Police should not be getting hand-me-down equipment from the military. It both makes the police feel they are soldiers and it adds to the military industrial complex. (The equipment is "free" to the police department, but the shiny new toy replacing it is ultimately still paid by us.)
So no SWAT team?

All of the services I mention are vital, but the police are not the catch-all solution. Organizations trained in more specialized fields would be better suited to the job, rather than the one who is trained in the violent arts first and foremost.
Overall, I think if we founded/funded different units that 'specialized' in various scenarios it would end up costing us more money as taxpayers. Of all things, I think qualified immunity should be changed and likely unions as well. Typically it's the Left that fights hard for unions but in this instance both sides might agree. While we are at it, I think Teacher's Unions should be looked into more as well.
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Why are people destroying cities?

Post by duckduckgoose »

TK if the protests had never happened Chauvin would probably have never been arrested.
Several years ago the FBI stated that white supremacist groups were infiltrating police forces across the country. Watching video of some of the violence at the hands of the police against peaceful protesters reinforces that fact to me. There is video of police firing rubber bullets at a black family standing on their second floor balcony, the police yelling light them up. Police shoving elderly protesters to the ground, point blank shooting tear gas in the faces of people just standing their ground. The one that really stood out to me is a police officer pointing his rifle in he face of a black protester who had is young daughter on his shoulders.
This might be the way you want our police forces to operate, but I think their mandate is to protect and serve the communities hey work in.
The thing I hope that comes out of this protest is that the police go back to community policing. Get all the military weaponry (armored vehicles and the like) off the streets. Get a database of bad cops nationwide, so cops like Chauvin can’t go to the next town or state and get a job.


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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by dd10snoop28 »

duckduckgoose wrote:TK if the protests had never happened Chauvin would probably have never been arrested.
That's speculative. We can never know. I think your point u r making is that police officers get away with committing crimes against officers more than other races.... when, actually, I believe the opposite is true. I think the protests have flipped the script on justice, and not in the way you thin. Because of the riots, police are getting attacked ruthlessly and are fired for any sort of response. The public/media/riot have created a culture diametrically opposed to due process. Look at the police officer in Atlanta. Fired/arrested when everybody knows that he is legally innocent of the charges being presented. And his step-mom was fired too! The DA's charges are hypocritical and ludicrous. Simply a PR stunt to appeal to the masses. It's shameful. Now if this is the sort of "justice" being created by the riots, this is bad.
Several years ago the FBI stated that white supremacist groups were infiltrating police forces across the country.

Source for this? Would like to check it out.
Watching video of some of the violence at the hands of the police against peaceful protesters reinforces that fact to me. There is video of police firing rubber bullets at a black family standing on their second floor balcony, the police yelling light them up. Police shoving elderly protesters to the ground, point blank shooting tear gas in the faces of people just standing their ground. The one that really stood out to me is a police officer pointing his rifle in he face of a black protester who had is young daughter on his shoulders.
Go watch ALL the videos. You are just watching what the media is showing. Of all of the videos that I've seen, I'd say the ratio is about 25-1 to rioters acting poorly vs. a police officer. (that's being conservative). Seriously, after watching the videos of rioters displaying detestable behavior and violence towards police officers, I feel terrible for police officers. Would never want that job in 1milllion years. Everyone is falsely portraying them as enemies when they are being attackd (media, politicians, rioters, most citizens nowadays).

Also, the video you are referring happened a little differently. (1) It wasn't the police; it was the national guard (2) they people in the house were not black. all of them were white in the video (3) I kept track of all the videos that night via social media. 100% of the videos that night were rioters either attacking officer, looting, burning, or running over police officers with vehicles. I did not see one where the officers did anything wrong. No joke. That was the one night I was following minute-by-minute. Amidst all of that, this is one video that ended up going "Viral". Why?
This might be the way you want our police forces to operate, but I think their mandate is to protect and serve the communities hey work in.
The thing I hope that comes out of this protest is that the police go back to community policing. Get all the military weaponry (armored vehicles and the like) off the streets. Get a database of bad cops nationwide, so cops like Chauvin can’t go to the next town or state and get a job.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by woundedknees »

Having spent time in law enforcement, in addition to having multiple relatives and acquaintances involved in the field, I have to say that much of this violence perpetrated by police officers is greatly exaggerated.

There is no doubt that there are bad apples scattered through the nations departments, yet they are the exception, rather than the rule.

I know of cases where poorly trained officers made bad decisions, based on profiling. It happens.

It has also cost the departments involved, as well as the taxpayers, a sizable pile of cash and training time to try to rectify those situations.

The death of someone like George Floyd is a travesty and stain on all of us, but in no way does it justify attacking innocent officers in retribution.

Chauvin has been arrested and charged, as have several of his fellow officers. That is the beginning of a possible solution, but without working together to negotiate this perilous road we find our nation on, I see no satisfactory resolution for Americans as a whole.

Should law enforcement be held accountable for their transgressions?

Of course. That doesn't mean it's a great idea to dismantle the whole shebang and think you're going to whip up something better from scratch.

Change needs to come from within, with the aid of proper oversight, rather than a mandate that results in the mess we have just witnessed.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by dd10snoop28 »

Biggus Duckus wrote:
woundedknees wrote:Having spent time in law enforcement, in addition to having multiple relatives and acquaintances involved in the field, I have to say that much of this violence perpetrated by police officers is greatly exaggerated.

There is no doubt that there are bad apples scattered through the nations departments, yet they are the exception, rather than the rule.

I know of cases where poorly trained officers made bad decisions, based on profiling. It happens.

It has also cost the departments involved, as well as the taxpayers, a sizable pile of cash and training time to try to rectify those situations.

The death of someone like George Floyd is a travesty and stain on all of us, but in no way does it justify attacking innocent officers in retribution.

Chauvin has been arrested and charged, as have several of his fellow officers. That is the beginning of a possible solution, but without working together to negotiate this perilous road we find our nation on, I see no satisfactory resolution for Americans as a whole.

Should law enforcement be held accountable for their transgressions?

Of course. That doesn't mean it's a great idea to dismantle the whole shebang and think you're going to whip up something better from scratch.

Change needs to come from within, with the aid of proper oversight, rather than a mandate that results in the mess we have just witnessed.
It's not just about violence, it's about the whole system. Black people are targeted at much higher rates for small transgressions, or no transgressions at all: driving a nice car, driving through a nice neighborhood, walking just about anywhere, possessing a small amount of marijuana, carrying an open container, jaywalking, "fitting the description," etc. 99% of these cases don't lead to violence, but it's still a huge problem. The system is so bad that black people learn at a young age to NEVER do anything that could trigger even the smallest reaction in a cop because it never ends well for the civilian.
What "system" are you referring to? Can you be more specific?

And, yes, the movement against "police brutality" IS about violence. If the system - which you can clarify for me what that means - was set up against black people then you would expect to see disproportionate violence from police officers against black people. That's not the case. The stats show that black citizens are shot less per police encounter than white citizens. And then there are some who want to make this about race, saying that the problem is not just police officers, but specifcally white police officers... but again, the stats show that black police officers shoot black citizens at a higher rate than white police officers. I think there are other factors that account for this - such as, white police officers being more tentative than black police officers to react in encounters with black people due to fear of becoming a national storyline (see police officer that shot Rayshard Brooks who is being unjustly prosecuted).

Lastly, anyone with sense would teach their kids to not do anything to trigger a reaction from police officers. Be respectful, don't sass, know your rights, don't escalate, and any issues (unless your life is being threatened) can be resolved later.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

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dd10snoop28 wrote:
Biggus Duckus wrote:
woundedknees wrote:Having spent time in law enforcement, in addition to having multiple relatives and acquaintances involved in the field, I have to say that much of this violence perpetrated by police officers is greatly exaggerated.

There is no doubt that there are bad apples scattered through the nations departments, yet they are the exception, rather than the rule.

I know of cases where poorly trained officers made bad decisions, based on profiling. It happens.

It has also cost the departments involved, as well as the taxpayers, a sizable pile of cash and training time to try to rectify those situations.

The death of someone like George Floyd is a travesty and stain on all of us, but in no way does it justify attacking innocent officers in retribution.

Chauvin has been arrested and charged, as have several of his fellow officers. That is the beginning of a possible solution, but without working together to negotiate this perilous road we find our nation on, I see no satisfactory resolution for Americans as a whole.

Should law enforcement be held accountable for their transgressions?

Of course. That doesn't mean it's a great idea to dismantle the whole shebang and think you're going to whip up something better from scratch.

Change needs to come from within, with the aid of proper oversight, rather than a mandate that results in the mess we have just witnessed.
It's not just about violence, it's about the whole system. Black people are targeted at much higher rates for small transgressions, or no transgressions at all: driving a nice car, driving through a nice neighborhood, walking just about anywhere, possessing a small amount of marijuana, carrying an open container, jaywalking, "fitting the description," etc. 99% of these cases don't lead to violence, but it's still a huge problem. The system is so bad that black people learn at a young age to NEVER do anything that could trigger even the smallest reaction in a cop because it never ends well for the civilian.
What "system" are you referring to? Can you be more specific?

And, yes, the movement against "police brutality" IS about violence. If the system - which you can clarify for me what that means - was set up against black people then you would expect to see disproportionate violence from police officers against black people. That's not the case. The stats show that black citizens are shot less per police encounter than white citizens. And then there are some who want to make this about race, saying that the problem is not just police officers, but specifcally white police officers... but again, the stats show that black police officers shoot black citizens at a higher rate than white police officers. I think there are other factors that account for this - such as, white police officers being more tentative than black police officers to react in encounters with black people due to fear of becoming a national storyline (see police officer that shot Rayshard Brooks who is being unjustly prosecuted).

Lastly, anyone with sense would teach their kids to not do anything to trigger a reaction from police officers. Be respectful, don't sass, know your rights, don't escalate, and any issues (unless your life is being threatened) can be resolved later.
From Page 1 of this thread:


You don't seem to be arguing that there is widespread police brutality / overuse of force, so we can start there.

In the age of camera phones and body cams, we've all seen a lot of disturbing videos (if we're willing to watch them). Many black victims, many white, many brown. Chris Rock made the joke that if you're United Airlines and most of your pilots are good but there are a few bad apples who fly into mountains, that's not acceptable, and that policing should be viewed the same way. You don't score points for getting it 'mostly' right. What we see by the sheer number of videos is that there are quite a few bad apples, spread out across the country. I've personally watched the videos of police shooting a 20-something exterminator who was crawling on the ground per the cop's order because the cop was jumpy, watched a cop choke two men literally to death despite them not presenting any threat, and read about cops shooting a man to death who was trying to break up a fight (that last one here in Portland). That's just a tiny sample, and those that have been documented. So it's clear to me that police overuse deadly force, and that is something that, on its own, warrants reform, and failing that, warrants public backlash. Cops shouldn't be killing people who pose no threat and doing so is the ultimate violation of our personal freedoms. Period.

Lets say that police brutality is agnostic to color, meaning police do not intentionally assault or shoot a person of color intentionally any more than they shoot or assault caucasion people. What we do know is that police interact with people of color, specifically blacks, much more than they do white people. They patrol their neighborhoods more, they are more likely to stop them for questioning, and more likely to say they fit the description of a 'suspect in the area.' Now, if all interactions, white or black, have the same chance of ending in police brutality, then just on the simple fact that blacks are more likely to interact with police, you can see how blacks are more likely to be on the receiving end of police brutality. This says nothing of intention and speaks only to logic, but you see now how police brutality is an issue of race and racism.

Now lets go one step further. Police are able to use a lot of discretion in enforcing the law, so even though the same laws apply to everyone, application is malleable. I have two brothers who were active duty in the military for over a decade each. Despite routinely driving over the speed limit, and sometimes getting caught, neither ever received a speeding ticket. As members of the military, often being pulled over by former members of the military, the willingness to let things slide is greater. The reason is that when we see someone in a particular light, we're more likely to look for the good in them and be willing to acknowledge an incident as an isolated mistake. That same sense of perspective can work the opposite way. If we read about how blacks make up a fraction of the population but are responsible for half the murders in the country, and we don't have some more impactful experience to overwrite that kind of narrative in our mind, then when an incident occurs involving a black person, that person is more likely to be punished to the full extent of the law. The officer - black or white or other - is more likely to consider that person the rule, not the exception like they do my military brothers. We see this phenomena statistically in the courtroom - blacks are given longer sentences for the same crimes as whites. You can argue with me but you can't argue with numbers.

Part of your suggestion is that if a black cop shoots a black victim, it can't be racism. Why can't it? Statistically speaking, it's been shown that black restaurant-goers tip black servers less than they tip white servers. Is that not racism? Is it more likely to say that white servers must be better than black servers? Is it not more believable that the black cop is affected by knowledge of the same statistics - that blacks are more likely to commit murder than whites - and reacts in a similar way as the white cops?

If we resolve the issue of police brutality against the black community, we're likely to resolve the issue of police brutality as a whole. I don't see where the issue is there. Perhaps one day in a distant future, we'll be talking about under-policing, but that is most definitely not where we are today.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

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^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

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lukeyrid13 wrote:^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
Wait, are you victim blaming right now?
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by lukeyrid13 »

pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
Wait, are you victim blaming right now?
George Floyd or Philando Castile, not remotely. Those were both egregious and murder.

Ray shard Brooks would still be alive if he was compliant. Maybe we disagree in that, but I feel strongly on that one.

In regards to overall, I think it would be disingenuous to say that police have been treated with any respect the past month or two. It’s not appropriate to scream obscenities at officers and act with total disregard and disrespect. The problem, is that many are encouraging it and emboldening that behavior. Again, we may agree to disagree but the lack of regard for common decency and blatant vitriol towards our fellow man and fellow officers is disheartening and setting a very very poor trend for our future.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

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From Page 1 of this thread:


You don't seem to be arguing that there is widespread police brutality / overuse of force, so we can start there.

In the age of camera phones and body cams, we've all seen a lot of disturbing videos (if we're willing to watch them). Many black victims, many white, many brown. Chris Rock made the joke that if you're United Airlines and most of your pilots are good but there are a few bad apples who fly into mountains, that's not acceptable, and that policing should be viewed the same way. You don't score points for getting it 'mostly' right. What we see by the sheer number of videos is that there are quite a few bad apples, spread out across the country. I've personally watched the videos of police shooting a 20-something exterminator who was crawling on the ground per the cop's order because the cop was jumpy, watched a cop choke two men literally to death despite them not presenting any threat, and read about cops shooting a man to death who was trying to break up a fight (that last one here in Portland). That's just a tiny sample, and those that have been documented. So it's clear to me that police overuse deadly force, and that is something that, on its own, warrants reform, and failing that, warrants public backlash. Cops shouldn't be killing people who pose no threat and doing so is the ultimate violation of our personal freedoms. Period.
Lets say that police brutality is agnostic to color, meaning police do not intentionally assault or shoot a person of color intentionally any more than they shoot or assault caucasion people. What we do know is that police interact with people of color, specifically blacks, much more than they do white people.
Aren't you curious to dig deep and find out why black people are more likely to interact with police? Why is it that 5% of the population (black males) make up 50% of homicides? You could chalk it up to systemic racism, yet in the 40s and 50s, the statistics show that black folk were MUCH better off when it came to crime rates, father absence, homicides etc.... yet they lived in time where poverty and racism was rampant. Isn't that interesting? If we truly loved our neigbor - and specifiaclly black lives, since that is the topic at hand - we would look into this very closely to help our fellow american. Why does mainstream black culture glorify sexualitation of women, drugs, and gang-culture? Is it no coincidence that black america is stuck in a rut when the supposed heroes of black culture are Straight outta Compton and other groups that are straight up immoral people? If all I know is father-absence, drug culture, gangs etc... and my heroes are rappers that glorify these things (yet live in mansions), why would we expect anything to change? Substantially all of the statistics shoes that there is no disparity amongst any race when it comes to police violence....Now, you make a valid point that police interact w/ black people more, yet do not want to address the critical issue of black america. You are not helping your fellow black american when you do this

They patrol their neighborhoods more, they are more likely to stop them for questioning, and more likely to say they fit the description of a 'suspect in the area.' Now, if all interactions, white or black, have the same chance of ending in police brutality, then just on the simple fact that blacks are more likely to interact with police, you can see how blacks are more likely to be on the receiving end of police brutality. This says nothing of intention and speaks only to logic, but you see now how police brutality is an issue of race and racism.
It is an issue of race, i agree. However, it is not an issue of racism. When you say police officers are racist for focusing on areas of concentrated crime (that happen to be predominantly black) you are critizing them for doing exactly what a police officer is supposed to do. You also are disregarding the amount of lives that are being saved by police officers becuase they are concentrating efforts in areas of high-crime. In fact, it's anti-racist to patrol areas of high crime. The systemically-racist thing to do in high-crime areas would be to withhold police presence in those areas. That way, crime/drugs/murders would sky-rocket and innocent black people would die. The presence of police in high-crime areas are protecting the black families that are under imminent danger from criminal activity. There is an article from NYT back in 2011 that criticized Chicago for not concentrating enough police officers in high-crime areas, thus leaving the innocent bystanders out to dry and letting gang activity ran rampant. So no, this is the opposite of racism.
Now lets go one step further. Police are able to use a lot of discretion in enforcing the law, so even though the same laws apply to everyone, application is malleable. I have two brothers who were active duty in the military for over a decade each. Despite routinely driving over the speed limit, and sometimes getting caught, neither ever received a speeding ticket. As members of the military, often being pulled over by former members of the military, the willingness to let things slide is greater. The reason is that when we see someone in a particular light, we're more likely to look for the good in them and be willing to acknowledge an incident as an isolated mistake. That same sense of perspective can work the opposite way. If we read about how blacks make up a fraction of the population but are responsible for half the murders in the country, and we don't have some more impactful experience to overwrite that kind of narrative in our mind, then when an incident occurs involving a black person, that person is more likely to be punished to the full extent of the law. The officer - black or white or other - is more likely to consider that person the rule, not the exception like they do my military brothers. We see this phenomena statistically in the courtroom - blacks are given longer sentences for the same crimes as whites. You can argue with me but you can't argue with numbers.
Ineresting last two sentences. I've heard that but haven't looked into in detail.
Part of your suggestion is that if a black cop shoots a black victim, it can't be racism. Why can't it? Statistically speaking, it's been shown that black restaurant-goers tip black servers less than they tip white servers. Is that not racism?
My point is that none of that is racism. The word racism is being tossed around like candy to cover any misdeed from one race to another. People are bad. Can we just say that? In my life, I've seen a lot of encounters/fights between different races (playing basketball mainly). I'd chalk up about 1% of these instances to racism. The other 99% were a result of the following: pride, anger, egotistical, jealous etc....
Is it more likely to say that white servers must be better than black servers? Is it not more believable that the black cop is affected by knowledge of the same statistics - that blacks are more likely to commit murder than whites - and reacts in a similar way as the white cops?
Unliekly, but this is the type of discussions we should be having. There are many more factors that need to be considered rather than just labeling everyone/everything as racist.
If we resolve the issue of police brutality against the black community, we're likely to resolve the issue of police brutality as a whole. I don't see where the issue is there. Perhaps one day in a distant future, we'll be talking about under-policing, but that is most definitely not where we are today.
The problem is there is no issue of police brutatily against the black community (the stats just don't show it at all). And, yes, people do actually talk about under-policing. The media is banned from talking abuot it after 2012, but there are many high-crime areas that are currently being under-policed. Like I said, the media (prior to 2012) was actually chastising the local governments for purposefully under-policing high-crime areas.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by pudgejeff »

lukeyrid13 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
Wait, are you victim blaming right now?
George Floyd or Philando Castile, not remotely. Those were both egregious and murder.

Ray shard Brooks would still be alive if he was compliant. Maybe we disagree in that, but I feel strongly on that one.

In regards to overall, I think it would be disingenuous to say that police have been treated with any respect the past month or two. It’s no appropriate to scream obscenities at officers and act with total disregard and disrespect. The problem, is that many are encouraging it and emboldening that behavior. Again, we may agree to disagree but the lack of regard for common decency and blatant vitriol towards our fellow man and fellow officers is disheartening and setting a very very poor trend to our future.
I mean it was a simple question, and your answer was yes. You can choose to defend that however you like, was just confirming what you were meaning in the first post. Compliance is relative, and I agree 100% people being more compliant will lead to less altercations and less cops getting in trouble. But on the flip side, we've seen what happens when people start saying, "yes sir, no sir" only, and that's not good.

Those same things are done to workers and in all industries on a daily basis, yet if any other than a cop decided to react in a physical manner they would be fired immediately and more often than not charged with a crime. Officers are not above the law, and don't deserve any more respect than a fellow man(which I agree, should be more than we give currently), and aren't in any way shape or form(most of all legally) given the ability to punish someone for not respecting them.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by dd10snoop28 »

I mean it was a simple question, and your answer was yes. You can choose to defend that however you like, was just confirming what you were meaning in the first post. Compliance is relative, and I agree 100% people being more compliant will lead to less altercations and less cops getting in trouble. But on the flip side, we've seen what happens when people start saying, "yes sir, no sir" only, and that's not good.
Those same things are done to workers and in all industries on a daily basis, yet if any other than a cop decided to react in a physical manner they would be fired immediately and more often than not charged with a crime. Officers are not above the law, and don't deserve any more respect than a fellow man(which I agree, should be more than we give currently), and aren't in any way shape or form(most of all legally) given the ability to punish someone for not respecting them.
Sorry, pudge, but that's a terrible comparison. You can't compare a regular-working job with that of a police officer. The police have a job to enforce the law. It's a dangerous job. Most other workers do not have their life on the live every day.

Want a good example when the police choose NOT to enforce the law? Look at the statistics for the month of July in every single high-population city in the United States. Look at CHAZ. Look at crime in Portland the last 3 weeks. Look at multitude of videos of mobs committing crime after crime and the police not intervening because democratically-led cities are telling them to stand down.
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by lukeyrid13 »

pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
Wait, are you victim blaming right now?
George Floyd or Philando Castile, not remotely. Those were both egregious and murder.

Ray shard Brooks would still be alive if he was compliant. Maybe we disagree in that, but I feel strongly on that one.

In regards to overall, I think it would be disingenuous to say that police have been treated with any respect the past month or two. It’s no appropriate to scream obscenities at officers and act with total disregard and disrespect. The problem, is that many are encouraging it and emboldening that behavior. Again, we may agree to disagree but the lack of regard for common decency and blatant vitriol towards our fellow man and fellow officers is disheartening and setting a very very poor trend to our future.
I mean it was a simple question, and your answer was yes. You can choose to defend that however you like, was just confirming what you were meaning in the first post. Compliance is relative, and I agree 100% people being more compliant will lead to less altercations and less cops getting in trouble. But on the flip side, we've seen what happens when people start saying, "yes sir, no sir" only, and that's not good.

Those same things are done to workers and in all industries on a daily basis, yet if any other than a cop decided to react in a physical manner they would be fired immediately and more often than not charged with a crime. Officers are not above the law, and don't deserve any more respect than a fellow man(which I agree, should be more than we give currently), and aren't in any way shape or form(most of all legally) given the ability to punish someone for not respecting them.
I think we just disagree a lot, and that’s ok. We can have diversity of opinions.

In what way is just saying “yes sir, no sir” considered a total failure?
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pudgejeff
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by pudgejeff »

dd10snoop28 wrote:
I mean it was a simple question, and your answer was yes. You can choose to defend that however you like, was just confirming what you were meaning in the first post. Compliance is relative, and I agree 100% people being more compliant will lead to less altercations and less cops getting in trouble. But on the flip side, we've seen what happens when people start saying, "yes sir, no sir" only, and that's not good.
Those same things are done to workers and in all industries on a daily basis, yet if any other than a cop decided to react in a physical manner they would be fired immediately and more often than not charged with a crime. Officers are not above the law, and don't deserve any more respect than a fellow man(which I agree, should be more than we give currently), and aren't in any way shape or form(most of all legally) given the ability to punish someone for not respecting them.
Sorry, pudge, but that's a terrible comparison. You can't compare a regular-working job with that of a police officer. The police have a job to enforce the law. It's a dangerous job. Most other workers do not have their life on the live every day.

Want a good example when the police choose NOT to enforce the law? Look at the statistics for the month of July in every single high-population city in the United States. Look at CHAZ. Look at crime in Portland the last 3 weeks. Look at multitude of videos of mobs committing crime after crime and the police not intervening because democratically-led cities are telling them to stand down.
Exuse me? This is what I responded to "It’s no appropriate to scream obscenities at officers and act with total disregard and disrespect.". It's a very specifically apt comparison. There is no law against any of that, so I'm not sure why brought any of that up?

We got on for days about the choosing not to enforce the law. It seems like a lot, and also we probably agree on a lot of it, as the only one of those I'm actually privy to information about is CHAZ or whatever it's last name was and I thought it was one of the most absurd things I've ever seen. Utopia's don't exist.
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dd10snoop28
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Re: Why are people destroying cities?

Post by dd10snoop28 »

pudgejeff wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:^ Do you think the problem is 100% police or do you think there’s any issue in regards to compliance from the public?
Wait, are you victim blaming right now?
If you want to suppress a group of people from rising up and overcoming their circumstances, tell them they are a victim and that you are there to help them..... and then disappear for the next 4 years.
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