End Racism

Anything that wont fit in any of the other forums

Moderators: greenyellow, UOducksTK1

Post Reply
User avatar
duckduckgoose
Five Star Recruit
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:45 pm

Re: End Racism

Post by duckduckgoose »

greenyellow wrote:The people asking for people to be deplatformed based solely on their political beliefs probably wouldn't be asking for it if the same thing was happening to them. They seem to be under the deluded belief that political discourse will somehow magically be fixed by shutting out entire views completely.
Is anyone trying to get rid of people solely on political leanings? Trump is trying to start a coup, not have a political debate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
User avatar
greenyellow
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35676
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:54 pm
Location: Eugene, OR

Re: End Racism

Post by greenyellow »

duckduckgoose wrote:
greenyellow wrote:The people asking for people to be deplatformed based solely on their political beliefs probably wouldn't be asking for it if the same thing was happening to them. They seem to be under the deluded belief that political discourse will somehow magically be fixed by shutting out entire views completely.
Is anyone trying to get rid of people solely on political leanings? Trump is trying to start a coup, not have a political debate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I've seen more than a few people (including blue-check verified accounts) talk about putting any and all Republican/Trump supporter in reeducation camps, shunned from getting jobs/promotions and losing access to social media. That is just as verifiably stupid and dangerous as some of the stuff some right-wing spout off. You don't get discussions going by blacklisting and blocking everyone who doesn't think like you.
Image
rentdodger
One Star Recruit
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: Paradise Valley, Az

Re: End Racism

Post by rentdodger »

“Trump is trying to start a coup, not have a political debate.”


That is the most important/intelligent statement in this whole thread. Trump riled up his hillbilly coalition to cover what he knows is coming. This has gone well beyond political rhetoric and the whataboutisms from either side are at this point. There were criminals there to take out politicians violently from both sides of the aisle including VP Pence on directions from Trump. Insurrection is not a political party/racism argument, it’s flat out treason.

Senators Cruz and Hawley are opportunists that like Trump represent nothing but self interest. There is a very good chance both get expelled after the transition. Sending out fundraising emails at the same time the capital is being ransacked is even a step too far for others in their own party, along with the rest of their antics. It is very realistic that 2/3 vote of the senate take these two shitbags out. Trump should also be impeached again and hopefully convicted after the transition, removing several post presidential benefits allotted to him.

It’s like Willie Sutton having the combination to the bank vault assuring everyone your deposits are safe. Same thing with Trump......the predictable outcome is playing out.
User avatar
dd10snoop28
Senior
Posts: 4815
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:06 am
GM: New Jersey Nets GM
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: End Racism

Post by dd10snoop28 »

“Trump is trying to start a coup, not have a political debate.”


That is the most important/intelligent statement in this whole thread.


No, because the media says it is, does not make it true. First off, it is always good to wait a couple of weeks before making judgement on any one specific event. Good rule to follow, for all sides.
Trump riled up his hillbilly coalition to cover what he knows is coming. This has gone well beyond political rhetoric and the whataboutisms from either side are at this point. There were criminals there to take out politicians violently from both sides of the aisle including VP Pence on directions from Trump.
If you really think that Trump was in any way responsible for what happened on the 6th then you are living on a very slipper slope. I could blame all acts of anti-semitism on any politician who supports Palenstine's right to have Israel. I could blame Obama on terrorist attacks from Syria - which is a proxy of Iran- because Obama gave funds to Iran which funded their ability to be a proxy for Syria.

In fact, you want to know what is much worse than what Trump ever did in regard to his supposed incitement of the "insurrection", which is a lie. It is this: when politicians knowingly fail to name the group that is committed treason/mayhem/destruction/fires night after night across many cities for political purposes. And when politicians spend more time criticizing the police than they do the 1000+ people who have been arrested since May (this is a number from Portland)! Even worse, when politicians do not hold those people "treasonous" people accountable. It is funny that only now is everyone clamoring for the rioters at the capitol to be "held accountable". Of the 1,000+ people from BLM/Antifa that were arrested since May in Portland, 90% of them have been released WITHOUT charge. Ya, that's right. 90%. Where were the people calling for them to be "held accountable"? Where was the mayor? Governor? Media?

The result: a man was murdererd by a ANTIFA guy that was released WITHOUT charge from a previous riot. Now tell me who has been doing the real incitement?
Insurrection is not a political party argument, it’s flat out treason.
Be consistent. if BLM/Antifa attacks federal courthouse or state/county/local buildings, would you call that an insurrection? Treason? City Hall - across from where I work has been breached two times in the last 4 years. Have you called that treason? This is not a one-off. It has happened dozens of times since BLM/Antifa have gotten a stronghold and platform to spread their "treason".
Senators Cruz and Hawley are opportunists that like Trump represent nothing but self interest. There is a very good chance both get expelled after the transition. Sending out fundraising emails at he same time the capital is being ransacked is even a step too far for others in their own party, along with the rest of their antics. It is very realistic that 2/3 vote of the senate take these two shitbags out.
Expelled? For what? Watch the speech from Hawley in his objection to the certification. The claims he has made are valid. Certain key states had election law changes days/weeks/months before the election took place. These changes would be significant enough to make big differences in swing states. Who were the key actors? Local/county/state officials made autonomous decisions days before election to change certain processes (usually in favor of dems). Some state supreme courts (PA/WI/MI) issued invalid "judicial orders" that changed the election laws weeks leading Election Day. Most of the times these changes were unconstitutional and clearly favored one side. Be careful of the things that you wish for. You want a sitting Senator to be expelled for bringing up legitimate concerns in the manner he is so instructed to do so under the constitution? If that is the case, that will damage our Republic far worse than anything anyone could ever allege (usually falsely) against Trump.
Trump should also be impeached again and hopefully convicted after the fact, removing several post presidential benefits allotted to him. It’s like Willie Sutton having the combination to the bank vault assuring everyone your deposits are safe. Same thing with Trump......the predictable outcome is playing out.
Be careful what you wish for. They tried to impeach because Trump for inquiring about the Biden family to Ukraine. Guess what? Those concerns of his were legitimate.
Image
User avatar
dd10snoop28
Senior
Posts: 4815
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:06 am
GM: New Jersey Nets GM
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: End Racism

Post by dd10snoop28 »

OregonFan4Life wrote:
Duck07 wrote:So anybody got any bright ideas on how we can repair these fractured divisions? Or is it just going to be more "You're a Racist!" "No, you're a Commie!"
As long as social media is around and allowed to be a platform for extremely biased political news with the only intent to create confirmation bias for both sides, it’ll only get worse. I personally permanently deleted all social media accounts a while ago and I’m way happier now.
Yes, social media is bad.

But both social media + regular media are disproportionally biased in favor of one side of the other. That is something that is not talked about. ABC/CBS/NBC are in no way neutral. Additionally, I agree that it will get worse but the "worsening" will occur against any conservative ideas.

I'm beating a dead horse here, but hypocrisy in the media needs to be called out. When BLM/Antifa riots occur, the media/social media see it as an opportunity to show that police are dealing harshly with criminals while ignoring the destruction and calamity being caused. When the capitol riot occurs, media/social media see it as an opportunity to delete/ban/eliminate anyone that has an ideology that is similar to Trump (which is half of America. ha!)
Image
User avatar
duckduckgoose
Five Star Recruit
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:45 pm

Re: End Racism

Post by duckduckgoose »

dd10snoop28 wrote:
“Trump is trying to start a coup, not have a political debate.”


That is the most important/intelligent statement in this whole thread.


No, because the media says it is, does not make it true. First off, it is always good to wait a couple of weeks before making judgement on any one specific event. Good rule to follow, for all sides.
Trump riled up his hillbilly coalition to cover what he knows is coming. This has gone well beyond political rhetoric and the whataboutisms from either side are at this point. There were criminals there to take out politicians violently from both sides of the aisle including VP Pence on directions from Trump.
If you really think that Trump was in any way responsible for what happened on the 6th then you are living on a very slipper slope. I could blame all acts of anti-semitism on any politician who supports Palenstine's right to have Israel. I could blame Obama on terrorist attacks from Syria - which is a proxy of Iran- because Obama gave funds to Iran which funded their ability to be a proxy for Syria.

In fact, you want to know what is much worse than what Trump ever did in regard to his supposed incitement of the "insurrection", which is a lie. It is this: when politicians knowingly fail to name the group that is committed treason/mayhem/destruction/fires night after night across many cities for political purposes. And when politicians spend more time criticizing the police than they do the 1000+ people who have been arrested since May (this is a number from Portland)! Even worse, when politicians do not hold those people "treasonous" people accountable. It is funny that only now is everyone clamoring for the rioters at the capitol to be "held accountable". Of the 1,000+ people from BLM/Antifa that were arrested since May in Portland, 90% of them have been released WITHOUT charge. Ya, that's right. 90%. Where were the people calling for them to be "held accountable"? Where was the mayor? Governor? Media?

The result: a man was murdererd by a ANTIFA guy that was released WITHOUT charge from a previous riot. Now tell me who has been doing the real incitement?
Insurrection is not a political party argument, it’s flat out treason.
Be consistent. if BLM/Antifa attacks federal courthouse or state/county/local buildings, would you call that an insurrection? Treason? City Hall - across from where I work has been breached two times in the last 4 years. Have you called that treason? This is not a one-off. It has happened dozens of times since BLM/Antifa have gotten a stronghold and platform to spread their "treason".
Senators Cruz and Hawley are opportunists that like Trump represent nothing but self interest. There is a very good chance both get expelled after the transition. Sending out fundraising emails at he same time the capital is being ransacked is even a step too far for others in their own party, along with the rest of their antics. It is very realistic that 2/3 vote of the senate take these two shitbags out.
Expelled? For what? Watch the speech from Hawley in his objection to the certification. The claims he has made are valid. Certain key states had election law changes days/weeks/months before the election took place. These changes would be significant enough to make big differences in swing states. Who were the key actors? Local/county/state officials made autonomous decisions days before election to change certain processes (usually in favor of dems). Some state supreme courts (PA/WI/MI) issued invalid "judicial orders" that changed the election laws weeks leading Election Day. Most of the times these changes were unconstitutional and clearly favored one side. Be careful of the things that you wish for. You want a sitting Senator to be expelled for bringing up legitimate concerns in the manner he is so instructed to do so under the constitution? If that is the case, that will damage our Republic far worse than anything anyone could ever allege (usually falsely) against Trump.
Trump should also be impeached again and hopefully convicted after the fact, removing several post presidential benefits allotted to him. It’s like Willie Sutton having the combination to the bank vault assuring everyone your deposits are safe. Same thing with Trump......the predictable outcome is playing out.
Be careful what you wish for. They tried to impeach because Trump for inquiring about the Biden family to Ukraine. Guess what? Those concerns of his were legitimate.
How was anything that Hawley claimed accurate? Pennsylvania voting was changed because of Covid, Pennsylvania’s Congress is Republican led. Hawley was trying to imply that it was Democrats that messed with election laws to screw trump.
Trumps lawyers are 1-61 in lawsuits, because they had no facts. He’s raised over 200 million dollars for his legal defense fund. He’s playing his followers, it’s all a scam. It’s probably why he wanted the 2000 dollar Covid checks, so he could skim some off the top.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
dd10snoop28
Senior
Posts: 4815
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:06 am
GM: New Jersey Nets GM
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: End Racism

Post by dd10snoop28 »

How was anything that Hawley claimed accurate? Pennsylvania voting was changed because of Covid, Pennsylvania’s Congress is Republican led. Hawley was trying to imply that it was Democrats that messed with election laws to screw trump.
Are you referring to Act 77 which was a law enacted in 2019? I'm 90% that's what you are referring to. If so, I think that is a weak argument by Hawley and agree with you. PA legislature is responsible for enacting laws so I have no problem with it OTHER than they should have had the foresight to know that they must change the PA Constitution before enacting such a law, knowing that a claim of unconstitutionality could easily be made against it by either party. Brother, listen and please believe when I say I don't care who enacted a law, or order, or mandate, or whatever (whether R or D). I care about what is right under the constitution.

Now what I AM referring to in PA are three laws that were issued through "judicial order" by the PA Supreme Court (SCOPA) which allowed for Biden to gain a significant edge in garnering votes in the elections. These were done between September-October (I might get some of the details wrong) and go directly against both state constitution and U.S. constitutions for multiple different reasons (including separation of powers - legislature vs. judicial - i.e. judges cannot create law, but can only interpret it).

There are more cases of (1) supreme courts in MI/WI overstepping their bounds, and (2) election officials making election changes in many of the same steps outside of their scope of authority.

Trumps lawyers are 1-61 in lawsuits, because they had no facts. He’s raised over 200 million dollars for his legal defense fund. He’s playing his followers, it’s all a scam. It’s probably why he wanted the 2000 dollar Covid checks, so he could skim some off the top.
[/quote]

I can't comment on all of these cases but I will say that just because the courts pass on ruling in favor of the president, does not mean there aren't merits to the case. Example #1: SCOTUS declined to expedite one of the 3 PA judicial orders given by SCOPA because Chief Justice Roberts was more concerned with the image of the SCOTUS rather than ruling strictly on the constitutionality of the court order. FYI: it is 100% unconstitutional. Example #2: the lawsuit in Texas was denied not based on the merits but because SCOTUS did not want to get involved for fear of making the court look bad - they used a poor excuse that states are not allowed states in their opinion.
Image
User avatar
dd10snoop28
Senior
Posts: 4815
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:06 am
GM: New Jersey Nets GM
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: End Racism

Post by dd10snoop28 »

OregonFan4Life wrote:Let me try this...
I personally did not see racism in how the capital attack was handled. I saw a lot of events at BLM marches that resulted in violence where police interference was severely lacking in my opinion. People on here and other areas are claiming this is an obvious case of racism. It was very wrong, and those who broke in to the Capitol should be in jail next to those who looted and burnt down buildings and were violent during the BLM Marches. Also, at both BLM and election protests, a majority of people did not want violence, they wanted peaceful protests. It was the minority in both that wanted violence and only they should be condemned.

I am open to hearing any opposing argument and I’m open to change my mind if a good argument/facts are presented. So I ask someone who disagrees with me respectfully replies because I truly want to see the perspective of the other side.
Nothing to disagree with here. All fair points.
Image
User avatar
jBeavertonduck
Two Star Recruit
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:34 pm

Re: End Racism

Post by jBeavertonduck »

StevensTechU wrote:So nobody is going to respond to my comment that if thousands of muslims talked for months online about how a 'civil war is coming' on January 6th, staged a rally in the capital, broke into congressional buildings, attacked cops, and broke into senators' offices, and planted pipe bombs outside the DNC and RNC that things would have gone differently, eh? Good, glad we all agree, and so we can all move on with our lives.

'Traitor' is not a word to be used lightly. Clearly, these people and those who support them are traitors. Stop calling yourselves patriotic or Americans. You're of weak mind and a traitor to the republic.
Like it or not, the folks you are referring to, who have been associated with terrorist organizations, have killed many more Americans than a bunch of people carrying Trump flags.

I think that the preparation of the venue would have been much more regimented.

Is this because of race? Perhaps that would have something to do with it, however judging from past experience, if someone was calling for a Jihad, of course the response would have been different.
User avatar
jBeavertonduck
Two Star Recruit
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:34 pm

Re: End Racism

Post by jBeavertonduck »

"There have been court cases in multiple states and all have been thrown out for a lack of evidence (from republican appointed judges to boot) so stop spewing fake news. Its disgusting you call yourself a casual observer and refuse to accept facts."

Actually the President's cases have not been thrown out for lack of evidence. They have been dismissed for lack of standing. There has not been a court yet that has heard or considered evidence.
User avatar
OregonFan4Life
All-American
Posts: 12362
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: End Racism

Post by OregonFan4Life »

duckduckgoose wrote:
OregonFan4Life wrote:Let me try this...
I personally did not see racism in how the capital attack was handled. I saw a lot of events at BLM marches that resulted in violence where police interference was severely lacking in my opinion. People on here and other areas are claiming this is an obvious case of racism. It was very wrong, and those who broke in to the Capitol should be in jail next to those who looted and burnt down buildings and were violent during the BLM Marches. Also, at both BLM and election protests, a majority of people did not want violence, they wanted peaceful protests. It was the minority in both that wanted violence and only they should be condemned.

I am open to hearing any opposing argument and I’m open to change my mind if a good argument/facts are presented. So I ask someone who disagrees with me respectfully replies because I truly want to see the perspective of the other side.
I think there were a lot of folks there that were there with good intentions in their hearts, but I also think that a good portion were there to overthrow the electoral process. Peaceful protesters don’t show up at rallies with zip tie handcuffs. My theory is the bad actors were using the loyal Trumpers as a diversion and cannon fodder. Go onto Parler and look and see sometime. Until the 6th I thought it was keyboard warrior talk, I won’t make that mistake again.
Look at photos of the Capitol for some of the BLM marches, five or six rows of officers in riot gear and shields. With Congress in session they have just the capitol police force on hand. Either the Capitol police chief is an idiot or complicit with the rioters.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I too was shocked to see this happened, I didn’t think they’d take it this far and I was caught off guard. Despite being a conservative I know there are crazy and racist people that vote similarly to me, I’ve seen it first hand before I permanently deleted all social media.

However as for systemic racism and the events that took place, you mentioned the rows of officers at BLM protests. If I remember correctly, the first night of BLM protests after George Floyd had very little police presence. Hardly any police was there and they just stood and watched. I’ve heard first hand stores from the riots in Eugene the first night where people were beaten by rioters for no reason with the cops simply watching. However after continuous rioting then the police and national guard got more involved. This was one isolated incident where Trump supporters and Proud Boys stormed Capitol Hill, and obviously they had some help from the inside. However if they decide to have another March in DC I strongly believe we’d see way more than 5 or 6 rows of cops. Comparing months of riots to an isolated event doesn’t seem like enough to come up to the conclusion of racism being evident. But if these sort of things continue to happen and there is hardly any police presence and no National Guard, then you’d have a point.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question.
Image
User avatar
pudgejeff
Senior
Posts: 4897
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:21 am
GM: Sacramento Kings GM

Re: End Racism

Post by pudgejeff »

OregonFan4Life wrote:Let me try this...
I personally did not see racism in how the capital attack was handled. I saw a lot of events at BLM marches that resulted in violence where police interference was severely lacking in my opinion. People on here and other areas are claiming this is an obvious case of racism. It was very wrong, and those who broke in to the Capitol should be in jail next to those who looted and burnt down buildings and were violent during the BLM Marches. Also, at both BLM and election protests, a majority of people did not want violence, they wanted peaceful protests. It was the minority in both that wanted violence and only they should be condemned.

I am open to hearing any opposing argument and I’m open to change my mind if a good argument/facts are presented. So I ask someone who disagrees with me respectfully replies because I truly want to see the perspective of the other side.
What I would say is you are only focusing on the people that were out of line. I would say most if not all people agree that they should go to jail and condemn it. Where the outrage is mostly coming from is how so many peaceful protesters were lumped in with the people that were out of line and treated the same by the police/security, they were pepper sprayed/shot at with non-leathal rounds and so on. Most people construe this as the protesters outside of the capitol should have received the same treatment and I can see how some may feel that way because they are vengeful(even if I a don't agree), but the majority are saying why can't the peaceful protestors at other demonstrations be treated this way? In all reality most of the out of line people at the capitol were treated with less aggression than peaceful protestors throughout the fall and summer were. Mind you I said most, not at all so please don't respond with corner case arguments.
User avatar
lukeyrid13
All-American
Posts: 10484
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:58 am
GM: Portland TrailBlazers

Re: End Racism

Post by lukeyrid13 »

^ Security across the board has been enhanced since then.

Prior to this past week, how many violent Right wing protests were there in comparison to left wing protests? I shared stats/examples earlier in this thread but while perhaps a stereotype, it was safer to assume the right wing folks would not get out of hand.

Sadly, that was completely blown out and basically everyone is now a hyprocrite
User avatar
OregonFan4Life
All-American
Posts: 12362
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: End Racism

Post by OregonFan4Life »

pudgejeff wrote:
OregonFan4Life wrote:Let me try this...
I personally did not see racism in how the capital attack was handled. I saw a lot of events at BLM marches that resulted in violence where police interference was severely lacking in my opinion. People on here and other areas are claiming this is an obvious case of racism. It was very wrong, and those who broke in to the Capitol should be in jail next to those who looted and burnt down buildings and were violent during the BLM Marches. Also, at both BLM and election protests, a majority of people did not want violence, they wanted peaceful protests. It was the minority in both that wanted violence and only they should be condemned.

I am open to hearing any opposing argument and I’m open to change my mind if a good argument/facts are presented. So I ask someone who disagrees with me respectfully replies because I truly want to see the perspective of the other side.
What I would say is you are only focusing on the people that were out of line. I would say most if not all people agree that they should go to jail and condemn it. Where the outrage is mostly coming from is how so many peaceful protesters were lumped in with the people that were out of line and treated the same by the police/security, they were pepper sprayed/shot at with non-leathal rounds and so on. Most people construe this as the protesters outside of the capitol should have received the same treatment and I can see how some may feel that way because they are vengeful(even if I a don't agree), but the majority are saying why can't the peaceful protestors at other demonstrations be treated this way? In all reality most of the out of line people at the capitol were treated with less aggression than peaceful protestors throughout the fall and summer were. Mind you I said most, not at all so please don't respond with corner case arguments.
There were previous posts addressing this argument, I’ll just assume you didn’t notice them, easy to miss a few posts on a 6 page thread!

My counter-argument is that the first night of BLM riots/protests there was no police interaction and no national guard presence, but those went on for months, and as violence continued and buildings were burnt down and statues torn down, then that’s when police intervened more and the national guard got involved. If Proud Boy/pro Trump protests continued to be violent, then I would imagine the same sort of presence by the police would’ve been felt, but since this Capitol takeover they have done nothing so therefore there’s no reason to assume they’ll come back. It was an awful event, but luckily just a one time event, something we can’t say after the months and months of BLM riots. There’s nothing to suggest that if it were black people that took over the Capitol, that it would’ve been handled differently, that’s simply a narrative to push an agenda, and anyone who says that has nothing to back it up with.
Image
User avatar
dd10snoop28
Senior
Posts: 4815
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:06 am
GM: New Jersey Nets GM
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: End Racism

Post by dd10snoop28 »

So sad what we are seeing in the most recent shooting in Colorado. Racism persists. Quick summary:

As of now, it looks like all of the victims of the shooting attacks were of Caucasian descent, drawing new attention to the ongoing wave of hate crimes against Caucasians across the country fueled by racism and oikophobia amid the COVID-19 outbreak and anti-America and anti-white rhetoric expressed by many political leaders and news media coverage, including current *President Joe Biden.

The police arrested the suspect, who is refugee from Syria, about 150 miles south of the shooting after a manhunt, the authorities said. They had earlier released a surveillance image of a suspect near a Hyundai Tucson outside one of the supermarket. Mr. Baker said that the suspect had admitted to the shootings and that he appeared to be acting alone.

All of the people killed in the shootings at the Colorado supermarket on Tuesday were of Caucasian descent, raising fears that they could have been targeted because of their race and/or religion, even as the police said it was too early to know.
Unfortunately, society has no problem with spewing hate against white, Christian, and freedom-loving Americans so it is no surprise that we are seeing this hateful trend develop in the United States and around the world.

#stopcaucasianhate
Image
Post Reply