Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

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dd10snoop28
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

Post by dd10snoop28 »

pezsez1 wrote:This "conversation" is why so many members of our community are reluctant to join in.

I've done nothing here but provide links to studies and information-packed articles that clearly establish my points. I've not left any room for doubt -- the science is conclusive. This is all pretty easy stuff to grasp.

Our vaccines are safe, effective, they reduce spread, and they work against Delta. Period, full stop.

Meanwhile, the rest of you are "refuting" my facts with passive claims of government conspiracies, factoids removed from context, and claims of "authoritarianism" when vaccine mandates are, in fact, nothing new to this country (and upheld more than once by the Supreme Court).

You quote zero studies. You quote zero contextual facts. You just throw turds against the wall and then scream at me for cleaning it up.

The only really inflammatory thing I've said is that I don't care if unvaccinated people choose to lose their jobs -- and I definitely mean that. It even makes me a little giddy. They deserve to lose their jobs if they're going to be that dumb about vaccines. I hope they're denied unemployment, too.

But what matters here is that vaccines work. They're effective. They're safe. I'm astounded that so many people who are otherwise rational and intelligent have been completely taken by anti-vax propaganda. How did you people allow that to happen to yourselves? Seriously, it blows my mind. I'm glad I can't relate.
^^ I think most people are smart enough to know most of what you are saying is either untrue and strongly misrepresenting people.

Regardless, you have still failed to respond to the most sigfnicaitn and meaningful case study to date: Israel. Here is a brief rundown of the spike this summer and then a few graphs that dispel the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing inception/transmission:

-first country to have the majority of people "vaccinated" due to special contract with Pfizer + commitment to “science” (March 2021)
-Delta variant makes first appearance (July 2021)
-Slow surge begins in Israel (mid-July 2021)
-70% of all citizens have received a vaccination (August 2021)
-78% of > 12 yrs old citizens have been "fully vaccinated" (August 2021)
-COVID cases reaches all-time high 11,000 (8/31/21)
-COVID cases reaches another all-time high of 11,316 daily cases (9/2/21)
- Sweden (no restrictions) + 5 other European countries ban the travel of Israeli’s (regardless of vax status) (9/3/21)

OK, let’s break it down with a bit of Q&A and graphs to make it easy to grasp:


(1) How did the Israel spike compare to the rest of the world at the same time? Answer, very bad:


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(2) Which set of people were largely responsible for the spike in cases? Based on the data below, we see that proportionally, it is very similar. If you include the “once-faxed” individuals in the group below, it would show that proportionally more “vaccinated” Israeli’s got the virus compared to “unvaccinated”. Shocking? To some.

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(3) What was the viral load - a good indicator of infectiousness - between vax/non during this period? Answer: not much difference.

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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

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Regardless, you have still failed to respond to the most sigfnicaitn and meaningful case study to date: Israel. Here is a brief rundown of the spike this summer and then a few graphs that dispel the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing inception/transmission:
I responded to this directly a page or two ago.

Vaccine effectiveness has waned over time, allowing more transmission. Combine that with the fact that most people in Israel are vaccinated. Boom, there's your answer.

This is why Israel is aggressively rolling out booster shots -- to restore the high efficacy of vaccines against Delta.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-isr ... 1632821987

Seriously, before replying, read and THINK about this. I honestly can't believe you feel that vaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus than fresh meat. Your fixation on this despite the mountain of evidence against you (some of which I've shown you) is a far bigger problem than my lack of compassion.
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

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pezsez1 wrote:
Regardless, you have still failed to respond to the most sigfnicaitn and meaningful case study to date: Israel. Here is a brief rundown of the spike this summer and then a few graphs that dispel the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing inception/transmission:
I responded to this directly a page or two ago.

Vaccine effectiveness has waned over time, allowing more transmission. Combine that with the fact that most people in Israel are vaccinated. Boom, there's your answer.

This is why Israel is aggressively rolling out booster shots -- to restore the high efficacy of vaccines against Delta.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-isr ... 1632821987

Seriously, before replying, read and THINK about this. I honestly can't believe you feel that vaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus than fresh meat. Your fixation on this despite the mountain of evidence against you (some of which I've shown you) is a far bigger problem than my lack of compassion.
1/ "Vaccine effectiveness has waned". Right, so I'm glad you agree with what I've been saying this entire time. So the question is: why are we requiring people to lose their jobs over a vaccine that is essentially a more aggressive form of getting the flu shot every year (that is: easily waning and lost effectiveness with every new mutation)? Is the death-per-case rate any different than most flu's? Answer: no. In fact, some age groups have lower fatality rates. The logic just doesn't line up for why u want to destroy people's lives. OK, on to the next.

2 / Again, do you understand the concept of "proportionally"? 70% of the Israeli's have been vaccinated. 75% of the cases in Israel are made up of vaccinated individuals. You have continually said that the vaccines are effective and help to prevent inception / transmission. In Israel, this is just straight up false based on the data I've provided. Again, you are going to need to understand the concept of "proportionally" before responding.
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

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I'd also like to add that since we all hold Israel in such high esteem, it's worth noting that they're being far more aggressive with vaccine mandates than we are.

They're actually connecting intensive mandates with BOOSTER shots.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-1-mi ... on-sunday/
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Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

Post by UofDuck »

pezsez1 wrote:
Yikes, no tolerance while terminating any diversity of thought or principle.
What would you say to people who think the Ducks should prepare for Stanford by playing pickup basketball?

I agree, what's happening here isn't good for society, but the right's sweeping anti-intellectualism is far more dangerous than the left's loss of compassion. The right has lacked compassion for years so I don't even understand why conservatives care.
And there it is. People’s true colors come out when they are angry.

Why should I have any compassion for people that aren’t as awesomely wise as I am? And anyone afraid of a rush to market drug is worthy of anything bad that comes their way because I believe the drug is beyond reproach.

And by the way, I’m vaccinated. I just don’t hold so little respect for people’s lives that choose not to be vaccinated. I feel I made the right choice to be vaccinated, but that’s not to say that I wish I had a crystal ball to see what the long term effects may come, because we simply don’t know yet. Anyone who wants to take a wait and see attitude should certainly be afforded that right. I hope for their sakes it works out for them and I hope for my sake it works out for me.


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Last edited by UofDuck on Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pezsez1
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

Post by pezsez1 »

1/ "Vaccine effectiveness has waned". Right, so I'm glad you agree with what I've been saying this entire time. So the question is: why are we requiring people to lose their jobs over a vaccine that is essentially a more aggressive form of getting the flu shot every year (that is: easily waning and lost effectiveness with every new mutation)? Is the death-per-case rate any different than most flu's? Answer: no. In fact, some age groups have lower fatality rates. The logic just doesn't line up for why u want to destroy people's lives. OK, on to the next.
OMG, so much wrong here.

Yes, far more people die from COVID than the flu. It's not even close. An average of 35k-40k people die from the flu during the average six-month flu season. Right now, we're losing 2k people per day to COVID. Math that out.

Also, the COVID vaccines are not comparable to flu shots in how they function. That's a flat-out bad comparison that I don't even know how to fit into this conversation.
2 / Again, do you understand the concept of "proportionally"? 70% of the Israeli's have been vaccinated. 75% of the cases in Israel are made up of vaccinated individuals. You have continually said that the vaccines are effective and help to prevent inception / transmission. In Israel, this is just straight up false based on the data I've provided. Again, you are going to need to understand the concept of "proportionally" before responding.
Again, do you understand what "waning effectiveness" means? It doesn't mean "zero effectiveness." It means "less effective." So you combine a higher rate of transmission among the fresh meat and the partially vaccinated with a rising rate of transmission among the 75% whose vaccine efficacy is waning.

Do you believe that Israel is aggressively rolling out booster shots because their own science shows they won't work? :lol:
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

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And by the way, I’m vaccinated. I just don’t hold so little respect for people’s lives that choose not to be vaccinated.
I don't want the unvaccinated to die -- some of my friends are in this crowd.

But if they choose to get fired when they could simply get vaccinated, then I really don't care. They're being dumb and making their own beds.

I support mandates BECAUSE I respect people's lives.
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

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OMG, so much wrong here.

Yes, far more people die from COVID than the flu. It's not even close. An average of 35k-40k people die from the flu during the average six-month flu season. Right now, we're losing 2k people per day to COVID. Math that out.
'

Remember how I said "death-per-case rate". Way to not read what I said.
Also, the COVID vaccines are not comparable to flu shots in how they function. That's a flat-out bad comparison that I don't even know how to fit into this conversation.
I'm sure there are differences, but surely my narrow comparison is not that hard to comprehend regarding (1) overall waning effectiveness, and (2) waning effectiveness due to mutations. These are simple comparisons.
Again, do you understand what "waning effectiveness" means? It doesn't mean "zero effectiveness." It means "less effective." So you combine a higher rate of transmission among the fresh meat and the partially vaccinated with a rising rate of transmission among the 75% whose vaccine efficacy is waning.
If it was "less effective" then we should see the % of cases in the "vaccinated" between 0-69% (which is less than the 70% vaccination rate of the population) during the surge.
Do you believe that Israel is aggressively rolling out booster shots because their own science shows they won't work? :lol:
Dude, this is so easy to figure out. The original vaccines didn't work and so they are going to come up with a booster that will provide a small amount of protection for a small amount of time. And then, guess what? The data will show that the new booster didn't work. And then, guess what? They'll come out with another booster. This is not hard.
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

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I feel I made the right choice to be vaccinated, but that’s not to say that I wish I had a crystal ball to see what the long term effects may come, because we simply don’t know yet.
Here are my biggest problems with this line of thinking:

1) It isn't logical. Virtually all long-term side effects of modern medications are known within a couple of months. I understand why people stayed on the sidelines when vaccines first rolled out... but it's been six months now. Millions of people have been vaccinated all over the world with extremely few significantly relevant serious side effects. The most significant side effect has been heart inflammation in young adults, but it's mild enough that it almost always resolves on its own, and also people who get COVID are more likely to suffer from the same ailment. Bottom line though is that there's more than enough evidence -- and enough time has passed -- that people shouldn't be so concerned about this.

2) The risk analysis of getting vaccinated vs. remaining unvaccinated is all wrong. While folks sit and wait for complications of the vaccines (which aren't coming), we've already documented the very clear and present dangers of COVID infections. People tend to hyperfocus on the low death rate for younger populations, but what about Long COVID? What about blood clots? What about organ damage? What about amputations? What about heart inflammation or massive inflammation in young children? What about diminished lung capacity, in some cases permanently? What about neurological damage? We're just now learning of a connection between people who lose their sense of smell and lingering memory loss.


To summarize: I see lots of concern over hypothetical vaccine issues but no real regard for what we've actually documented from COVID. It doesn't make much sense to worry more about vaccines given what the data has shown us about their safety and efficacy.

Also, we're all football fans, right? Are we genuinely that concerned about vaccines while simultaneously seeing no issues with football?
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

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The original vaccines didn't work and so they are going to come up with a booster that will provide a small amount of protection for a small amount of time.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, I can't do this anymore. I'm out.
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

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pezsez1 wrote:
Not going to argue about Covid but if you trust the science at this point you must also believe that Cigarettes don't cause cancer, Coal mining has nothing to do with people dying of black lung, thalidomide is fine for pregnant women, and that lobotomies should be used to "fix" mental illness.
Skepticism is healthy... but you're comparing a rigorous, worldwide scientific undertaking with astounding public scrutiny with cherry-picked occurrences from decades ago when people operated largely without oversight, peer review, or quality standards.

Sorry, don't buy that. Example: Thalidmine was approved in Europe, Asia, and the US. It was the wonder drug that had years of support for its safety. Guess those babies born without arms and legs just didn't believe the scientists. Do you really need me to list the more current ones?

Example: Darvon & Darvocet active till 2010 over 2000 deaths reported I use this one because I had a prescription for it as a kid and may still have heart issues in the future. The list of withdrawn medicines is very long and only a small percent are withdrawn before major damage occurs.

I had more respect for you but if you think current science has moved to the point where they don't make mistakes I am very sorry for your teachers. Many of our finest scientists cannot figure out how things like Damascus steel was actually made thousand of years ago so if you think we are a lot smarter than the scientists only a couple of decades ago.... I guess that speaks for its self. IF that was the case doctors would not need malpractice insurance and in this case, the government would not have given these drugs protection from lawsuits. I don't know if this drug is good or bad but your "moral" high ground is washing away like sand in the breakers. You may have rock under you shoes or not but we won't know for years.
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

Post by Phalanx »

If vaccines work so well, why are unvaccinated people such a threat? And why are there examples of people dying of Covid while fully vaccinated all around us? I just got over Covid several weeks ago, and among those who caught it from the same outbreak (it came from an eye-doctor's office of all places) was my wife's sister-in-law who is vaccinated. She caught it, brought it home to her fully vaccinated grandmother, who then died of it. None of the unvaccinated in our circle died, or were even hospitalized. Not saying it was a fun experience, but it's over with, and now, if studies are correct, I have many times better immunity than Pez. Meanwhile, it was the vaccinated person who literally 'killed grandma'. So my personal experience, while only an anecdote for anyone reading, is the exact opposite of what we are hearing in the propaganda stream.

Here is another example - very sad.

https://www.fox17online.com/news/corona ... m-covid-19

Both vaccinated, both doing normal activities sadly thinking they were somehow protected from the virus as Pez has promised over and over in this forum, only to tragically find out they were not.

I suspect, particularly after certain leaks have been made public, that our statistics on vaccinated hospitalizations and deaths are not terribly reliable. Why is Israel or other places like the Victoria, Australia video I posted above relevant? Because in other countries, they seem more willing to report vaccinated hospitalizations and deaths. Here, we just hear about them anecdotally in various places and then listen to the propaganda that vehemently insists it isn't happening and couldn't possibly happen, and that somehow it is all the fault of the unvaccinated. Well, I, for one, am happy to have my natural immunity working correctly, without concerns about long-term effects of experimental procedures. Here is another fellow, Jonathan Isaac of the Orlando Magic, who is willing to think for himself who I think did a great job explaining his very rational position:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVS6aUWAWDg&t=116s
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

Post by UOducksTK1 »

My realtor and her whole family were vaccinated and all 5 of them got covid. It’s a false sense of protection.

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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

Post by RebelDuck »

My girlfriend and I both got COVID. She is vaccinated and I’m not. A vaccine does not mean you will never get it. You will always be susceptible to getting it. It just depends on how severe the will be symptoms. Those who are going to die from it are going to die from it regardless whether they have been vaccinated or not. Just like the flu.
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Re: Team/League COVID Safety Protocols For 2021

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pezsez1 wrote:
The original vaccines didn't work and so they are going to come up with a booster that will provide a small amount of protection for a small amount of time.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, I can't do this anymore. I'm out.
And another repot that just came out today:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAj1z8MXIAY ... ame=medium

Share of **positive tests (%) in the last week:
Vaccinated a long time ago (> 5 months) =7.09%
Unvaccinated=5.75%

Yikes!


**this means that for every 100 people you"ll find 7.06 people that received a positive RT-PCR test result.
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