If Trump is found guilty...

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pezsez1
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If Trump is found guilty...

Post by pezsez1 »

Let's be clear about what's in this federal indictment against him. The big issue with this indictment doesn't appear to be that Trump possessed classified information (which could also be said about Pence, Biden, Hillary's emails, etc) but that -- once questioned about it -- he not only refused to comply with the government but took deliberate actions to wrongfully hide/keep these docs for himself. (And he's also on tape admitting he showed them to people while admitting they were still classified and he shouldn't have them.)

So, his case stands apart from the others. This isn't a case of Trump being singled out. That is crystal clear and rational dalogue can't proceed until we acknowledge that.

That said...

Trump has already been indicted on these counts by a grand jury of 20 Florida residents. If he is also found guilty by a Florida jury (should be a friendlier jury pool than in NYC) in proceedings overseen by a Florida judge (one of his own appointees), then will that be enough for you and/or your peers to accept that he's a criminal who either 1) shouldn't be president or 2) should be in prison or 3) both?

I expect some people will try to respond by flipping this around and asking me whether I'd think the opposite if he's not found guilty, so I'll answer that quickly right now: I think the fact he's already been indicted twice by two seperate grand juries and also found responsible for sexual assault by another jury (in a civil matter) is enough to believe he isn't fit for public office.

I'm asking this here because I'm genuinely curious if we've finally found a "red line" that republicans won't cross, especially with so many other capable (and non-criminal) options to choose from in the upcoming election cycle.


EDIT: Another thought... how would you folks react if Trump pleads guilty in a plea deal for reduced charges? Does that change the calculus for you?
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

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pezsez1 wrote:Let's be clear about what's in this federal indictment against him. The big issue with this indictment doesn't appear to be that Trump possessed classified information (which could also be said about Pence, Biden, Hillary's emails, etc) but that -- once questioned about it -- he not only refused to comply with the government but took deliberate actions to wrongfully hide/keep these docs for himself. (And he's also on tape admitting he showed them to people while admitting they were still classified and he shouldn't have them.)
Who is the only person in America that has ultimate declassification authority? Is it the Vice President? The Secretary of State?
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

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It's convenient to ignore the illegal retention of classified-documents charge since that carries a 10-yr charge, and would implicate everyone you had mentioned. Additionally, unlike for the former president, these charges would stick because those individuals had no declassification authority, while the president has outright authority to declassify.

Additionally, is there a reason that NARA did not make any requests for missing classified documents from any of the aforementioned people?
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

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If this helps, I won't even respond to/argue with folks who actually attempt to respond to the topic here. I don't have many Trump voters in my social circle and social media is crap for getting honest responses. I really want to know what's going through people's minds right now. I'd imagine that I'd be feeling pretty conflicted if I were in your position.
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

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pezsez1 wrote:Dude, are you even capable of responding to this thread topic? If not, what are you doing here? Go post in your other random grievance thread.
"I'm asking this here because I'm genuinely curious if we've finally found a "red line" that republicans won't cross, especially with so many other capable (and non-criminal) options to choose from in the upcoming election cycle."

Shouldn't you be asking yourself the same question?

Did you feel comfortable crossing that red-line by voting for the former Secretary of State and current president, knowing of their non-prosecuted criminal misconduct? Or were you aware of it?
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

Post by pezsez1 »

No, I'm not going to answer a BS "flip this around" question meant to distract from the topic at hand.

Would still love to hear from people with real thoughts.
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

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pezsez1 wrote:This isn't a case of Trump being singled out. That is crystal clear and rational dalogue can't proceed until we acknowledge that.
This is humorous in how self-defeating it is. You want to elicit a discussion with those who support the former president while simalteously asserting that "no rational dialogue" can proceed unless they ignore all common sense and acknowledge what you - a person who has openly demonstrated detest for the former president - demands them to acknowledge.

You can't make it up.
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

Post by pezsez1 »

Again, I am not interested in BS whataboutisms.

Trump's indictment is what lies before us. This is the topic right now.

You may soon be a supporter of a former president found guilty of federal crimes -- crimes which you'd seemingly condemn if committed by others.

How does this make you feel? How would this affect your seemingly undying support?

These aren't difficult questions. This is all pretty straightforward.

What is your answer?
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

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You made a bunch of assertions in the other thread and when corrected, did not respond. Why should you expect any different?
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

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You've never corrected me on anything outside of football. I simply reached my limit on arguing with crazy.
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

Post by dd10snoop28 »

pezsez1 wrote:Again, I am not interested in BS whataboutisms.

Trump's indictment is what lies before us. This is the topic right now.

You may soon be a supporter of a former president found guilty of federal crimes -- crimes which you'd seemingly condemn if committed by others.

How does this make you feel? How would this affect your seemingly undying support?

These aren't difficult questions. This is all pretty straightforward.

What is your answer?
Putting "BS" in front of everything doesn't make it true.

Saying "whataboutism" to a point that refutes an argument of yours doesn't make it invalid.

FYI.

I'll answer your question with a quote: "The great thieves lead away the little thief"
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

Post by pezsez1 »

Your answer says nothing about how you, personally, will deal with a guilty verdict by a Florida jury in a Florida court after being indicted by a Florida grand jury.

If all of these people evaluate all of the evidence and determine that Trump is guilty of these crimes... how will that make you feel? Or will you simply turn to more whataboutisms and refuse to confront the truth?

That would be a valid answer, by the way. I'm guessing that IS your answer, but I'd love to hear it from you.
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

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pezsez1 wrote:You've never corrected me on anything outside of football. I simply reached my limit on arguing with crazy.
"Only my questions are valid and any responses to my unhinged rants must meet my approval"

I heard they are looking for a replacement for Mr. Science, Dr Fauci.
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

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pezsez1 wrote:Your answer says nothing about how you, personally, will deal with a guilty verdict by a Florida jury in a Florida court after being indicted by a Florida grand jury.

If all of these people evaluate all of the evidence and determine that Trump is guilty of these crimes... how will that make you feel? Or will you simply turn to more whataboutisms and refuse to confront the truth?

That would be a valid answer, by the way. I'm guessing that IS your answer, but I'd love to hear it from you.
The quote is the answer. Work it out. It probably represents the same thoughts that most Americans have who don't pay attention to mainstream media.
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Re: If Trump is found guilty...

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pezsez1 wrote:Or will you simply turn to more whataboutisms and refuse to confront the truth?
:lol:
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