Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

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Which hypothetical Blazers option do you prefer?

Trade Lillard for picks and start over with $49 million in salary cap
9
45%
Keep Lillard and lose in the first round every year
11
55%
 
Total votes: 20
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Phalanx
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by Phalanx »

Most comments seem to contain some element of a common theme: that people don't want to trade Lillard and risk plummeting into the lottery lists. I think what they are missing is that it really isn't much of a fall. It would have happened last year, but for some late-season heroics combined with some very fortunately-timed games against teams that were injured and/or sitting players. The Blazers are not a good team now, and they are only going to get worse. Where are the rising stars that we can't wait to get more playing time next year? There are none. Simons, Little, Collins, all busts. We even have Giles and Rondae Hollis back on the team as some kind of 'ghost of bad drafts past' theme. What's the plan going forward? They pretty much have to trade somebody at this point.

Speaking of trading Lillard, that talk is heating up, in case you haven't noticed:

https://sny.tv/articles/knicks-damian-l ... ade-6-4-21

""Several calls have come (the Blazers') way. You got a lot of teams -- about six or seven different teams -- who believe they can get their hands on him, they think they've got a shot. One of them includes the Knicks, who are scheduled to have about $75 million in cap space along with some picks. But also, the Clippers, the Miami Heat. And who knows what the Lakers may try to do. Stay tuned." - Stephen A. Smith

It seems like the rest of the league smells blood in the water. I think this could work out well for the Blazers if they take the right deal. If they do trade Dame, I really really hope lottery picks are involved. What the Knicks are offering seems really weak - we already know that Olshey has no ability to turn late first-rounders into talent. Lottery picks, rookie contracts, and cap space are the way to get out of this hole.
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lukeyrid13
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by lukeyrid13 »

I think they would need 6-8 picks and/or swaps plus 1-2 young pieces.

The Paul George trade equivalent where they essentially "own" the draft capital of the franchise he's traded to.


I personally though, would prefer to make a similar trade to add another piece for our squad. CJ and 3 picks for Jimmy Butler or Ben Simmons or some similar type trade. With Lillard and another legit All-Star, they will be much better off the next 5 years.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by greenyellow »

Well Stotts is gone now. Hopefully they get a new coach who has some defensive philosophy that isn't just hope the other team misses a shot.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by Everythingsducky »

greenyellow wrote:Well Stotts is gone now. Hopefully they get a new coach who has some defensive philosophy that isn't just hope the other team misses a shot.
Stotts had a lot of assistant coaches to help with a defensive philosophy. You telling me 5+ pro coaches on a team can’t come together on defensive philosophy? It takes players to buy in, and give the extra effort. Blazer backcourt has always been a defensive liability, for years. Too damn small, and poor effort. Lillard only makes up for it with his offense, but he is a liability defensively. CJ plain sucks at D. Olshey needs to be sh*t-canned yesterday. He holds on too tight to his draft picks, and holds onto them too long, thinking they will all materialize into all-stars eventually. Going to be tough trading CJ with his ridiculous contract. Collins is a washout. Simons better not get a huge extension, but could see Olshey doing that. His big moves turn out to be sh*t. Team doesn’t just need a new voice, it needs a way better GM. Keep Lillard, everyone else is trade bait.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by Phalanx »

I read these comments and I feel like people don't really understand how bad the situation in Portland really is. They can't 'rebuild around Lillard'. There are no tools to do this. Nobody wants to trade good players for Olshey's terrible draft picks, or McCollum's max salary. The Blazers won't be participants in this year's draft, having traded away their first and second-round picks already, to go with several second-round picks in the future. There is no cap space to sign free agents, since Lillard and McCollum are eating everyone else's lunch. Even if Norman Powell picks up his player option for next year (I'm betting not), Collins, Kanter, and Carmelo Anthony all come off the books unless they are re-signed, and yet the team payroll actually goes up next season without them. Heck, they are still paying Andrew Nicholson almost $3 million per year for the next 3 years. Just to fill out a team with veteran's minimum scrubs, they will probably be in the luxury tax. Olshey has done an unbelievable screw job on the franchise, succumbing to all of Lillard's demands to follow a 'win now' strategy that didn't work. Just wait, Lillard wants to pick the new coach as well.

So if they keep Lillard for next year, we will all be treated to a steady stream of whining from him and his agent in the media about how he doesn't have enough help, how he is losing motivation, and what a favor he is doing taking almost $50 million per year from Portland. Probably it will end by him getting traded anyway (if his 31+ year-old skills aren't too diminished), but instead of the Blazers getting the top offer in a bidding war like they would get now, it will be a stupid Otis Thorpe-like trade to 'help poor Saint Damian win his championship' because all the teams with cap space will have used it by then. Unless the GM is a genius (obviously not Olshey), this will be followed by a long spell of lottery-level play, looking up at the Sacramento Kings with envy. It's coming.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by pezsez1 »

I chose trade Lillard.

That said, I don't want to trade him. I'd rather trade CJ or Nurk and see what happens under a year of Chauncey's leadership. I'm honestly not even sure who'd be available on the trade market, but players like Dame are so rare (especially in Portland) and if he wants to stay here, I'd work to make that happen. The situation here re: bad contracts and cap limitations is pretty bad, but it isn't unheard of for star players to restructure their contracts to help their teams remain competitive. Again, not sure if that could happen here, but if Dame wants to win bad enough then that option's on the table.

But if forced to choose between these two options with no "buts" or qualifiers, then yes, the smarter play is easily to trade Lillard at his peak value and start over again -- although I'd certainly feel better if "fire Olshey" were part of that option.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by Phalanx »

Before Pez revived it, the last post in this thread was nearly a month ago. Since that time, per my prediction, we have been treated to more whining in the media by Lillard about how unhappy he is with the new coach that he himself chose, or with his supporting cast with players like Carmelo that he himself wooed to come to Portland. If the Blazers keep Lillard, this is what we can expect, not just over the life of his contract, but years into the future about how Portland never surrounded him with talent. In all those future years of whining, nobody will ever point to the real cause of the problem, the contracts of Lillard and McCollum.

Pez mentions that Lillard can restructure. That is another joke. A fan actually tweeted at him as he was signing this deal that the team would lose while he ate up that much of the salary cap and his response was that at least he would be a 'rich mf-er'. Lillard will never restructure. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. He is not the team leader that you all think he is. The only reason he 'loves Portland' is because they gave him more money than he would have gotten anywhere else. Now that the ridiculous contract is in place, he will happily go anywhere else that has decent players that can cover up for his lack of defense.

I don't actually know what pisses me off more - Lillard collecting his massive paycheck while whining about management, or the media suggesting that the 76ers could trade Ben Simmons for him. Writers on the east coast must think we are total rubes out here. Hopefully, GM's coming up with actual trade proposals are more respectful. The Blazers should get the absolute best deal they can, rather than just taking some other team's cast-off.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by pezsez1 »

Agree about the restructuring... don't see it happening. It's an option, and it has happened, but Lillard seems to like his money, and he knew what the long-term contract situation would be when he signed his Super Max. That only happens if it brings in another all star, and even if Dame wanted to restructure I still don't think we'd have enough cap room to lure anyone worthwhile. I don't see it happening for yet another role player.

But damn... Neil Olshey. The more I think about it, the more I wish I'd have voted for keeping Lillard and perennial first-round exits. All that draft capital would be wasted on Neil Olshey, and the fact he wasn't fired speaks poorly to the strength of the team's ownership. At least Lillard is easy to root for and fun to watch. Olshey should have been fired along with Stotts.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by Phalanx »

I actually think Olshey knows he is an idiot on the free agent market, which is why he doesn't want to trade Lillard or McCollum, and my scenario (trading for cap space and picks) would probably never happen. It's a little more likely that he would trade Lillard for a package of players and picks if he was under enough pressure to do so. The problem is that most of the picks being discussed in the media are late first-rounders, and we have already seen what Olshey does with those. I agree, Olshey needs to trade Lillard as he himself is headed out the door. That way, nobody can blame the new GM for getting rid of Lillard.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by Phalanx »

Oh man, some great trades for Lillard are being proposed in the media now. Not only the original Knicks offer of cap space and picks that was the impetus for this thread two months ago, but now Golden State is trying to bring Dame back to Oak-town:
Their theoretical offer would be competitive. If the Blazers decided to trade Lillard, a complete rebuild seems like the wisest path and there aren’t many better rebuilding trade packages dangling out there right now than James Wiseman, the seventh and 14th pick in the upcoming draft, plus more future firsts, attached to Andrew Wiggins as salary match filler.
Wiseman and two lottery picks plus future firsts? Don't even bother including Wiggins, I'll just take the cap space. I'd do that deal right now, would you? Maybe I should start another poll, especially given how popular the last one was. This is getting exciting. If only Olshey would get smart and do a deal now while he still can.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by lukeyrid13 »

Wiseman isn't a great fit in the modern NBA where PJ Tucker and Robert Covington now play Center in crunch time.

This draft is pretty dang weak historically so 2 lotto picks aren't of much value.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by alxtw »

It would make more sense if at least one of the GSW lottery picks was a top 4 pick. As the top four players in this year's draft are phenomenal players with imminent all star potential. After these top four players and the quality in the draft drops quite a bit.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by Boom »

alxtw wrote:It would make more sense if at least one of the GSW lottery picks was a top 4 pick. As the top four players in this year's draft are phenomenal players with imminent all star potential. After these top four players and the quality in the draft drops quite a bit.
Blazers have reportedly turn down a top 4 pick for CJ :?
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by Phalanx »

Boom wrote:
alxtw wrote:It would make more sense if at least one of the GSW lottery picks was a top 4 pick. As the top four players in this year's draft are phenomenal players with imminent all star potential. After these top four players and the quality in the draft drops quite a bit.
Blazers have reportedly turn down a top 4 pick for CJ :?
There had to be a bad contract attached to the deal though. I refuse to believe that anyone, even Olshey, is so stupid that he wouldn't take a rookie contract with a promising young player while simultaneously getting out of McCollum's terrible contract and freeing up all that money for signing free agents and getting out of luxury tax hell - I just don't think ownership would let him be that stupid. No, there must have been a crummy player he was required to take back that made the deal sour. Probably Cleveland wanted him to take Kevin Love or something.
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Re: Should the Blazers Trade Lillard?

Post by karlhungis »

Phalanx wrote:
Boom wrote:
alxtw wrote:It would make more sense if at least one of the GSW lottery picks was a top 4 pick. As the top four players in this year's draft are phenomenal players with imminent all star potential. After these top four players and the quality in the draft drops quite a bit.
Blazers have reportedly turn down a top 4 pick for CJ :?
There had to be a bad contract attached to the deal though. I refuse to believe that anyone, even Olshey, is so stupid that he wouldn't take a rookie contract with a promising young player while simultaneously getting out of McCollum's terrible contract and freeing up all that money for signing free agents and getting out of luxury tax hell - I just don't think ownership would let him be that stupid. No, there must have been a crummy player he was required to take back that made the deal sour. Probably Cleveland wanted him to take Kevin Love or something.
Love and the #4 pick for CJ is that bad of a deal?
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