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Re: Kyrie

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:14 pm
by dd10snoop28
Duck07 wrote:
dd10snoop28 wrote: Reread my post, I think you are misunderstanding my point, which is disappointing. This is an entirely different situation compared to Kyrie. Ja seems to be exhibiting criminal behavior (if the allegations are true), while Kyrie has not. My argument is not on whether Ja should be held to account for what he has done (he certainly should be, if true), but the timing of his "discipline" is the part that demonstrates the agenda. Here is what I said:

"It sounds like Ja has a history for getting into physical entanglements, but it is funny that the NBA only chooses to take actions after he legally filmed himself dancing with a firearm. Not saying I condone what he did, but you'd think they would suspend him for the multiple accusation of assault that he has had the past year rather than legally carrying a firearm?"

The point is that the NBA did NOT take any actions on all of his allegations over the past two years, but only took action when he filmed himself with a gun at a party.... Why didn't they suspend him and/or discipline for all of the previous allegations?

Now all of the stories running in the mainstream media is that they suspended him for carrying a gun (totally legal) rather than all of his actual felonious activities he has been accused of.

That's the agenda.

P.S. I am more inclined to believe that he has actually done the things he is being accused just the fact that there have been multiple instances of these type of things happening (assaults). That raises another question on how organizations should act in light of unverified allegations before the facts get born out in the court of law and/or court of public opinion. What to do?
Not speaking to just you alone on the Ja takes but there isn't an "Agenda" issue and I'm not sure what the LeBron/Morey stuff has to do with it. Using China as some kind of "issue" is a classic "remove the timber from your own eye before attempting to remove the speck from mine." Sure, what they've done is bad but it still pales in comparison to the U.S. foreign and domestic policy so what does any of it matter? The NBA is a Corporation and all of its moves are made under the auspices of what is best for the Shareholders. There were likely talks with Ja prior to the IG moment, so that when it did happen, it was going to be met with a response from Adam Silver.
You are talking about China vs. USA as far as foreign policy, which is a different discussion altogether. I'm talking about the hypocrisy of an institution who is supposedly all about social justice (see cancellation of NBA for 2 days because of the falsely portrayed events of Jacob Blake), but then cancels a teams' GM for speaking out against the hypocrisy of China.

And who are their shareholders in truth? Do you really think that public companies operate for the benefit of their shareholders anymore? ESG and social corporate governance have taken over the corporate world and changed the dynamic of old-school capitalism. It is no longer about doing what is best for the shareholders (see: SVG bailout), but rather, corporations have become an extension of the elites (and I world argue the federal government as well) and are being used to feed the agendas that are being constantly reiterated in the media over and over.

When the media, corporations, and entertainment are all repeating the same talking points, who can disagree? That's why it is so easy to cancel people nowadays because these institutions are so lock-step with each other. The Kyrie thing is actually a good example. I expected at least half of the NBA commentators (especially former players) to be incensed with the treatment of Kyrie by the NBA, but I barely heard a peep. Everyone was blasting him on the vaccine issue and on the documentary thing. Almost no dissenting opinions in the media. That was shocking to me.

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:50 am
by pezsez1
You're reading way too much into the Kyrie situation. The reason everyone seems so unified over his idiocracy is because he's a blazing idiot. This isn't a media/corporation/celebrity conspiracy, this is just most people calling it what it is.

For that matter, there were more than a few folks out there sympathizing with Kyrie. Until recently, the sports media industry twisted itself into all kinds of intellectual pretzels trying to portray him as a cerebral, critical thinker while explaining away his business decisions or passive endorsements of Flat Earth theories. I find it quite refreshing that people finally stopped trying to kiss his ass.

Same goes for Ja Morant. The story here isn't that the NBA has an "agenda" and is only freaking out because he waved a gun around. The story here is that the NBA was asleep at the wheel and let one of its star players crap all over the place before finally taking punitive action. (Which, if we're being real, is a glorified slap on the wrist.)

Too much corporate laziness and fear over holding big-name players accountable -- and inconsistency when it actually happens.

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:38 am
by dd10snoop28
pezsez1 wrote:You're reading way too much into the Kyrie situation. The reason everyone seems so unified over his idiocracy is because he's a blazing idiot. This isn't a media/corporation/celebrity conspiracy, this is just most people calling it what it is.

For that matter, there were more than a few folks out there sympathizing with Kyrie. Until recently, the sports media industry twisted itself into all kinds of intellectual pretzels trying to portray him as a cerebral, critical thinker while explaining away his business decisions or passive endorsements of Flat Earth theories. I find it quite refreshing that people finally stopped trying to kiss his ass.

Same goes for Ja Morant. The story here isn't that the NBA has an "agenda" and is only freaking out because he waved a gun around. The story here is that the NBA was asleep at the wheel and let one of its star players crap all over the place before finally taking punitive action. (Which, if we're being real, is a glorified slap on the wrist.)

Too much corporate laziness and fear over holding big-name players accountable -- and inconsistency when it actually happens.
You think a guy posting a dumb documentary is the equivalent to what Draymond did? If the standard is to suspend people who post links to documentaries which espouse views that are controversial, then why not suspend a good chunk of the players in the NBA?

And the suspension was only the tip of the iceberg. The things that the NBA forced him to do to be "reinstated" were downright emasculating.

For goodness sakes, Draymond Green got his own special on TNT where he was the narrator and victim of his own assault.

How is that "reading too much into it"?

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:03 am
by pezsez1
You think a guy posting a dumb documentary is the equivalent to what Draymond did?
We are in total agreement about the Draymond thing. It's crazy that the NBA did nothing. That's exactly my point, though. The real issue here isn't the NBA picking and choosing punishments based on an agenda, it's that the NBA is lazy/sloppy and being sporadically reactive instead of systematically proactive.

Kyrie and Ja were just too outlandish enough for the NBA to ignore. Ja was especially idiotic... dude waved a gun around on IG live just days after a massive Washington Post investigation on his role in numerous violent/hostile incidents involving guns. WTF was he thinking??? At that point he was basically begging for a suspension.

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:44 am
by dd10snoop28
pezsez1 wrote:
You think a guy posting a dumb documentary is the equivalent to what Draymond did?
We are in total agreement about the Draymond thing. It's crazy that the NBA did nothing. That's exactly my point, though. The real issue here isn't the NBA picking and choosing punishments based on an agenda, it's that the NBA is lazy/sloppy and being sporadically reactive instead of systematically proactive.

Kyrie and Ja were just too outlandish enough for the NBA to ignore. Ja was especially idiotic... dude waved a gun around on IG live just days after a massive Washington Post investigation on his role in numerous violent/hostile incidents involving guns. WTF was he thinking??? At that point he was basically begging for a suspension.
Kyrie was too outlandish? The dude posted a controversial documentary that had already been on Amazon for years. How is that in any way comparable to Ja/Draymond? I could comb through the social media accounts of probably over half of NBA players from their past and the mainstream media could cancel them in about 5 minutes.

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:46 am
by dd10snoop28
pezsez1 wrote:
You think a guy posting a dumb documentary is the equivalent to what Draymond did?
We are in total agreement about the Draymond thing. It's crazy that the NBA did nothing. That's exactly my point, though. The real issue here isn't the NBA picking and choosing punishments based on an agenda, it's that the NBA is lazy/sloppy and being sporadically reactive instead of systematically proactive.

Kyrie and Ja were just too outlandish enough for the NBA to ignore. Ja was especially idiotic... dude waved a gun around on IG live just days after a massive Washington Post investigation on his role in numerous violent/hostile incidents involving guns. WTF was he thinking??? At that point he was basically begging for a suspension.
The reaction of the NBA towards Kyrie was not normal, nor was it measured. If you think it was then we are in total disagreement.

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:56 am
by pezsez1
The reaction of the NBA towards Kyrie was not normal, nor was it measured.
I'll meet you halfway and agree it wasn't measured. There doesn't seem to be any uniform standard for consequences at the moment.

But were actions against him appropriate? Absolutely. In most private corporations he'd be out of a job by now -- not just because of his social media antics but also because of his terrible work ethic.

That's not me crediting the NBA, that's just saying even a broken clock gets it right twice per day.

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:20 pm
by dd10snoop28
pezsez1 wrote:
The reaction of the NBA towards Kyrie was not normal, nor was it measured.
because of his terrible work ethic.
Where did you get that from? IMO, that is a legitimate compliant but never heard that.

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:53 pm
by pezsez1
His work ethic is awful. Look at how much time's he's missed since leaving Cleveland. He's constantly distracted, missing games, just not prioritizing the sport he's getting paid $$$$$$$ to play.

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:31 pm
by dd10snoop28
pezsez1 wrote:His work ethic is awful. Look at how much time's he's missed since leaving Cleveland. He's constantly distracted, missing games, just not prioritizing the sport he's getting paid $$$$$$$ to play.
#1 - injuries does not equate to work ethic.
#2 - what is "distracted"? do you mean not getting vaccinated, or did you have something legitimate in mind?

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:05 pm
by UOducksTK1
pudgejeff wrote:
UOducksTK1 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
UOducksTK1 wrote:
Duck07 wrote:Ah yes, the good old, what's wrong with getting into fights with minors, laser-dotting your opponent after a game and then dangling a hand-gun in a strip club.

Why are more people not sticking up for Ja's right to do what again?

Grow the F up with some of these takes. This isn't how you're supposed to behave, period.
I think the point is, don't look to the NBA for role models. There are far better places to go.

Additionally, NBA players do these shenanigans all the time and get zero to lesser punishments. The consistency isn't there so it begs the question.
Can you provide some data to all these shenanigans you’re talking about that are like this?
Which of the millions do you want me to start with? How about one local one...
Oregon star running back LaMichael James wasn't in the lineup for the Ducks' season-opening 72-0 win over New Mexico. Last season James set a Pac-10-record by rushing for 1,546 yards as a freshman. But during this offseason James was charged with menacing, strangulation and assault after an altercation with his former girlfriend. In March he pled guilty to a single misdemeanor harassment charge and was sentenced to 10 days in jail, but didn't serve any time. Instead, James was permitted to wear an electronic surveillance device. Oregon coach Chip Kelly suspended James for one game.

One game for a misdemeanor?

How about a more recent example too:
"Alabama basketball star Brandon Miller brought a teammate the handgun that was used to kill a woman last month, according to police."

0 game suspension.

Now tell me again, what crime was Ja charged with?
You said "Additionally, NBA players do these shenanigans all the time and get zero to lesser punishments." and then used 2 college examples, one from 10 ish years ago?
C’mon man, I like you. Google for 5 minutes and you’ll find many examples at any sport level.

Sebastian Telfair
3 game suspension for pleading guilty to crimes.
Driving 77 in 45 with suspended license, loaded gun in car, etc. if Ja got 8, this should get 80:
https://www.espn.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=3643512

Ben Wallace
0 game suspension for pleading guilty to misdemeanor charges of drunken driving and possessing a firearm while under the influence of alcohol.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/717 ... cohol-case


No one usually cares about this stuff, but now apparently being photographed with a gun is the unforgivable sin.

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:22 pm
by pudgejeff
UOducksTK1 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
UOducksTK1 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
UOducksTK1 wrote:
Duck07 wrote:Ah yes, the good old, what's wrong with getting into fights with minors, laser-dotting your opponent after a game and then dangling a hand-gun in a strip club.

Why are more people not sticking up for Ja's right to do what again?

Grow the F up with some of these takes. This isn't how you're supposed to behave, period.
I think the point is, don't look to the NBA for role models. There are far better places to go.

Additionally, NBA players do these shenanigans all the time and get zero to lesser punishments. The consistency isn't there so it begs the question.
Can you provide some data to all these shenanigans you’re talking about that are like this?
Which of the millions do you want me to start with? How about one local one...
Oregon star running back LaMichael James wasn't in the lineup for the Ducks' season-opening 72-0 win over New Mexico. Last season James set a Pac-10-record by rushing for 1,546 yards as a freshman. But during this offseason James was charged with menacing, strangulation and assault after an altercation with his former girlfriend. In March he pled guilty to a single misdemeanor harassment charge and was sentenced to 10 days in jail, but didn't serve any time. Instead, James was permitted to wear an electronic surveillance device. Oregon coach Chip Kelly suspended James for one game.

One game for a misdemeanor?

How about a more recent example too:
"Alabama basketball star Brandon Miller brought a teammate the handgun that was used to kill a woman last month, according to police."

0 game suspension.

Now tell me again, what crime was Ja charged with?
You said "Additionally, NBA players do these shenanigans all the time and get zero to lesser punishments." and then used 2 college examples, one from 10 ish years ago?
C’mon man, I like you. Google for 5 minutes and you’ll find many examples at any sport level.

Sebastian Telfair
3 game suspension for pleading guilty to crimes.
Driving 77 in 45 with suspended license, loaded gun in car, etc. if Ja got 8, this should get 80:
https://www.espn.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=3643512

Ben Wallace
0 game suspension for pleading guilty to misdemeanor charges of drunken driving and possessing a firearm while under the influence of alcohol.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/717 ... cohol-case


No one usually cares about this stuff, but now apparently being photographed with a gun is the unforgivable sin.
I like you fine too, what’s that got to do with this? You just linked articles from 15 and 12 years ago. I’m just asking you to support your argument/statement. You’re saying it begs the question. I don’t see any players doing these shenanigans. Do I think the on court stuff, and the players friends families getting into stuff at the arenas should have been taken care of, absolutely, but that’s different than a guy waving a gun around on Instagram at the club while traveling with his team.

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:40 pm
by Boom
pudgejeff wrote: I like you fine too, what’s that got to do with this? You just linked articles from 15 and 12 years ago. I’m just asking you to support your argument/statement. You’re saying it begs the question. I don’t see any players doing these shenanigans. Do I think the on court stuff, and the players friends families getting into stuff at the arenas should have been taken care of, absolutely, but that’s different than a guy waving a gun around on Instagram at the club while traveling with his team.
It's really rare now. The NBA has done a great job educating and supporting their players.

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:56 pm
by dd10snoop28
pudgejeff wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
UOducksTK1 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:
UOducksTK1 wrote:
Duck07 wrote:Ah yes, the good old, what's wrong with getting into fights with minors, laser-dotting your opponent after a game and then dangling a hand-gun in a strip club.

Why are more people not sticking up for Ja's right to do what again?

Grow the F up with some of these takes. This isn't how you're supposed to behave, period.
I think the point is, don't look to the NBA for role models. There are far better places to go.

Additionally, NBA players do these shenanigans all the time and get zero to lesser punishments. The consistency isn't there so it begs the question.
Can you provide some data to all these shenanigans you’re talking about that are like this?
Which of the millions do you want me to start with? How about one local one...
Oregon star running back LaMichael James wasn't in the lineup for the Ducks' season-opening 72-0 win over New Mexico. Last season James set a Pac-10-record by rushing for 1,546 yards as a freshman. But during this offseason James was charged with menacing, strangulation and assault after an altercation with his former girlfriend. In March he pled guilty to a single misdemeanor harassment charge and was sentenced to 10 days in jail, but didn't serve any time. Instead, James was permitted to wear an electronic surveillance device. Oregon coach Chip Kelly suspended James for one game.

One game for a misdemeanor?

How about a more recent example too:
"Alabama basketball star Brandon Miller brought a teammate the handgun that was used to kill a woman last month, according to police."

0 game suspension.

Now tell me again, what crime was Ja charged with?
You said "Additionally, NBA players do these shenanigans all the time and get zero to lesser punishments." and then used 2 college examples, one from 10 ish years ago?
C’mon man, I like you. Google for 5 minutes and you’ll find many examples at any sport level.

Sebastian Telfair
3 game suspension for pleading guilty to crimes.
Driving 77 in 45 with suspended license, loaded gun in car, etc. if Ja got 8, this should get 80:
https://www.espn.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=3643512

Ben Wallace
0 game suspension for pleading guilty to misdemeanor charges of drunken driving and possessing a firearm while under the influence of alcohol.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/717 ... cohol-case


No one usually cares about this stuff, but now apparently being photographed with a gun is the unforgivable sin.
Do I think the on court stuff, and the players friends families getting into stuff at the arenas should have been taken care of, absolutely, but that’s different than a guy waving a gun around on Instagram at the club while traveling with his team.[/quote]

I think threats of violence and actual violence is a more heinous thing to punish a player over than taking a video of yourself with a gun.

I might not have all the facts straight, but I sounds like some of the things Ja is being accused if include violence. I also heard somewhere along the lines that he had assaulted a high-school kid during a family members b-ball game last year. Is this true??

If the NBA was as responsible and educational as Boom thinks, then they should have nipped this in the bud a year ago (I'm sure they have known for a while). Is violence/threats of violence not enough to suspend someone? For the NBA, the answer seems to be "no" (see Draymond/Ja). Is carrying a gun the greater sin? In of itself, obviously not, but the NBA only took action upon this occurrence. Why? And why was Kyrie totally ridiculed and embarrassed by the NBA for doing such a minuscule thing?

Additionally, I recently saw a clip of Ja on ESPN doing an "apology" interview. In the short clip I saw, there was nothing about the family issues/assaults that have been levied against him.... it was only about whether he owned the gun... I seem to be missing something here. Punching a HS'er (if true) is on another level than filming yourself with a gun...?

Re: Kyrie

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:20 am
by buckmarkduck
StevensTechU wrote:Families drive fanhood and eyeballs for basketball (and baseball, though adult men really are the foundation of NFL fanhood). Having a s*** role model as one of the faces of your league when you depend on children and their parents is bad business. Plain and simple.

My answer for if these guys are role models or not. Would you leave your kids home with them?