HOF Vote (Isiah Thomas)

[Oregon Ownage]

Is he worthy of being in the HOF?

Career averages (14 years):

16.2 PPG
7.8 APG
2.7 SPG
3.7 TOPG

.454 FG%
.836 FT%
.380 3P%

[The Bean Regime]

My opinion hasn't changed from my last time.

Most all-defensives (that I've seen, though Dudley Bradley has a slightly higher rate of 8x out of 12 seasons compared to IT's 9/14) of any player, offensively as good as any PG minus Magic so far, 5x all-league.

I'd understand if he were 1-dimensional like Bradley (though I'd argue he'd have a case, considering he's the all-time greatest defensive guard ) Thomas not making it, but he isn't. Never occurred to me that he wasn't a surefire pick until Suns argued against it.

[dd10snoop28]

I think his teams have mostly underperformed throughout his career, and his stats are sub-par for a HOF vote. Therefore, I voted no.

[The Bean Regime]

I think his teams have mostly underperformed throughout his career, and his stats are sub-par for a HOF vote. Therefore, I voted no.

I'd argue they overperformed if anything. Few 50+ win seasons with Cadillac, IT, washed-but-still-good JBC, and pretty poor players otherwise. For example, their 1st season with JBC and 53 wins their other 2 starters were John Paxson and Shelton Jones.

Before JBC, they had a few lower seed but still playoff seasons with IT, Laimbeer, Cadillac, Cliff Robinson, and bleh.

Before that, they had a 51 win season with a non-washed Dailey, IT, Cadillac, Nance, and a C rotation of Nevitt and John Salley.

None of those teams were that great, and their playoff struggles were in-line with their talent (though I still voted for them that one season. Probably JBC's 1st season with them. )

[dd10snoop28]

Good recollection.

My understanding (off the top of my head) is that the Bulls had like 4-6 seasons with prime-ish JBC and IT. right? Did they even make it out of the 2nd round during those seasons? I'm doubtful of that.

JBC was one of the elite talents of the league at the times so for two supposed HOF-type players to not make it past the 2nd round during those years is extremely disappointing for IT.

[The Bean Regime]

Good recollection.

My understanding (off the top of my head) is that the Bulls had like 4-6 seasons with prime-ish JBC and IT. right? Did they even make it out of the 2nd round during those seasons? I'm doubtful of that.

JBC was one of the elite talents of the league at the times so for two supposed HOF-type players to not make it past the 2nd round during those years is extremely disappointing for IT.

3 seasons (91-93). 1 was a 1st round exit, two were 2nd round exits to #3 you and #1 Celtics, and the last with JBC (and no IT) they made the finals and got destroyed by the Suns (though they traded IT somewhat late into the season if I recall correctly since Murdock was insane ). EDIT: Nope, wait, that was me trying to trade and I failed. Lost him in FA.

JBC was not in his prime at all by the time he got to the Bulls. Here are his averages for the Bulls (MPG - PPG - RPG - BPG)
91: 32.8 - 15.8 - 11.9 - 3.9
92: 33.4 - 13.9 - 10.1 - 4.0
93: 33.4 - 10.3 - 10.6 - 4.0
94: 28.6 - 9.8 - 10.0 - 3.7

Fantastic defensive player no doubt, but far from his lower-end #1 option days. Last all-league/all-defense award was 1988.

[The Bean Regime]

Fixed the info a bit in the last post. Forgot exactly how Isiah left, so it was only 3 seasons with JBC and Isiah together.

You might argue how them making the 94 finals is a knock on Isiah, which is fair I guess, but the other ECF finalist was the 44-38 Bucks so whatever.

[Craig]

Brogan's better.

[JayGreen]

One of the best defensive players since the restart, and probably the best defensive guard. That is his strongest case, but it’s not in the top post. Looking at the stats posted, I’d say he’s certainly not a HOF.

I could’ve put a better team around him. I routinely struck out in FA and had a hard time picking up anything but mid tier talent. I offered everything I had over the course of several seasons for players like Moses when he was made available, but nothing ever materialized. I finally traded for JBC and that was almost nixed. Fortunately I was able to get players like Cadillac and Murdock with late picks.

Overall I’d vote yes, but wouldn’t knock those who think otherwise.