Who’s the better coach?

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Who’s the better HC?

Chip Kelly
58
83%
Mario Cristabol
12
17%
 
Total votes: 70
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Alan
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by Alan »

Just a reminder, this is an old thread created October 2021, midway through Mario’s last season before it feel apart, Chip was much better in every way except recruiting imo
OfaFeather
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by OfaFeather »

If the question was who was the better recruiter at Oregon, 90% would probably say Cristobal. But better head coach, no question it was Kelly. Kelly knew what system he was running and how to plug players into those roles, he also understood how to deflate teams by stepping on their necks early and not letting up, and he also knew the strengths and weaknesses of his players while at Oregon and how they fit. On all those Cristobal failed.
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Phalanx
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by Phalanx »

I don't really understand the 'Mario was a better recruiter' crowd. Under Chip, Oregon regularly beat Washington out for recruits, and even stole guys like DeAnthony Thomas and Arik Armstead from USC. Does the fact that the 2021 recruiting class has been almost a complete washout, and a bunch of Mario recruits across multiple classes are getting processed out make a dent in this idea? Or that Chip's recruit performance on the field was miles ahead of the vast majority of Mario recruits? Mario was a good star-chaser, certainly, but is judging talent and how it will fit into your scheme part of recruiting, or are we just talking about getting recruits to sign on the line which is dotted?

It might be fun to identify which were the best recruits from each coach's tenure and see who was better. My guess is that for every Penei Sewell and Kayvon Thibodeaux there is a Marcus Mariota or Ifo Ekpre-Olomu that stayed longer and contributed more. I'm putting down the gauntlet for anyone who wants to list the meaningful Mario recruits. Just off the top of my head, Cliff Harris and Deforest Buckner contributed more than any Mario recruit the whole time he was here. But I can keep going: Pharoah Brown, Josh Huff, Bralon Addison, Byron Marshall, Michael Clay, etc. Heck, Mario's supposed strength was O-line and look how many misses he had there, despite all the stars.
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pezsez1
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by pezsez1 »

^^ Preach.
Willie Taggart is a dick.
droop10
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by droop10 »

Phalanx wrote:I don't really understand the 'Mario was a better recruiter' crowd. Under Chip, Oregon regularly beat Washington out for recruits, and even stole guys like DeAnthony Thomas and Arik Armstead from USC. Does the fact that the 2021 recruiting class has been almost a complete washout, and a bunch of Mario recruits across multiple classes are getting processed out make a dent in this idea? Or that Chip's recruit performance on the field was miles ahead of the vast majority of Mario recruits? Mario was a good star-chaser, certainly, but is judging talent and how it will fit into your scheme part of recruiting, or are we just talking about getting recruits to sign on the line which is dotted?

It might be fun to identify which were the best recruits from each coach's tenure and see who was better. My guess is that for every Penei Sewell and Kayvon Thibodeaux there is a Marcus Mariota or Ifo Ekpre-Olomu that stayed longer and contributed more. I'm putting down the gauntlet for anyone who wants to list the meaningful Mario recruits. Just off the top of my head, Cliff Harris and Deforest Buckner contributed more than any Mario recruit the whole time he was here. But I can keep going: Pharoah Brown, Josh Huff, Bralon Addison, Byron Marshall, Michael Clay, etc. Heck, Mario's supposed strength was O-line and look how many misses he had there, despite all the stars.
I think a lot of the Chip recruiting qualms is rooted in recency bias. Chip didn't love recruiting, but he was successful as a recruiter at that time, simply because his offense was so dynamic and the team was so fun to watch. He recruited some great classes during that time, both by stars and underrated talent. I think the recruiting game has changed significantly since then, and he's not as successful these days as a result. Kids are needier in terms of the amount of attention and adoration thrown their way, so his approach isn't as successful. Plus, his style of play no longer stands apart from the pack, which was his main selling point. He'll still snag the occasional top kid due to location in LA, but he's not going to keep up with any of the top programs. That's why we've seen him have limited success in LA. Last year was the perfect storm, as he had a high number of upper classmen, and even then, it was only good enough for 5th in the conference. I love Chip and think he's a great Xs and Os coach, and I don't think we can slight his recruiting from his time at Oregon, but I think it's reasonable to expect it would suffer in today's college football.
pdxduck2013
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by pdxduck2013 »

Mario just lost his DC to Bama, so he will have to hire new coordinators on both sides of the ballbefore the seasons starts.
woundedknees
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by woundedknees »

pdxduck2013 wrote:Mario just lost his DC to Bama, so he will have to hire new coordinators on both sides of the ballbefore the seasons starts.
Good for him, cause once MC gets his guys on baord, and the innovative scheme installed, uh... !

I was gonna say "All bets are off!", but that's a joke, innit?
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UofDuck
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by UofDuck »

I think what contributed to Chip’s recruiting struggles the last few years at O, was everyone knew he was leaving to go to the NFL. There was a lot of talk about that because he told people that at some point, that was his ultimate goal.
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Phalanx
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by Phalanx »

What recruiting struggles? You are talking about classes that were playing for a national championship a few years later.

I'll tell you what, this thread was started in 2021: Name me a recruiting class from either Chip Kelly or even Mark Helfrich that contributed less to Oregon football than Cristobal's 2021 class has. I'm talking about actual on-the-field production at the University of Oregon. If nobody can name one, maybe we can just stop with the posts about what awful recruiters Chip and Helf were.
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UofDuck
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by UofDuck »

I distinctly remember several high profile recruits who mentioned their nervousness about committing to Oregon because Chip was looking at NFL jobs. That is a fact.
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by buckmarkduck »

Phalanx wrote:I don't really understand the 'Mario was a better recruiter' crowd. Under Chip, Oregon regularly beat Washington out for recruits, and even stole guys like DeAnthony Thomas and Arik Armstead from USC. Does the fact that the 2021 recruiting class has been almost a complete washout, and a bunch of Mario recruits across multiple classes are getting processed out make a dent in this idea? Or that Chip's recruit performance on the field was miles ahead of the vast majority of Mario recruits? Mario was a good star-chaser, certainly, but is judging talent and how it will fit into your scheme part of recruiting, or are we just talking about getting recruits to sign on the line which is dotted?

It might be fun to identify which were the best recruits from each coach's tenure and see who was better. My guess is that for every Penei Sewell and Kayvon Thibodeaux there is a Marcus Mariota or Ifo Ekpre-Olomu that stayed longer and contributed more. I'm putting down the gauntlet for anyone who wants to list the meaningful Mario recruits. Just off the top of my head, Cliff Harris and Deforest Buckner contributed more than any Mario recruit the whole time he was here. But I can keep going: Pharoah Brown, Josh Huff, Bralon Addison, Byron Marshall, Michael Clay, etc. Heck, Mario's supposed strength was O-line and look how many misses he had there, despite all the stars.
Where to begin. UW was 0-12 at the start of Chips run, I hope he could put recruit them.

Armstead and his family were pissed at SC over the treatment of his brother, and he was never going there.

DAT called UO, and I’m told if UW had even tried, they would have had just as good a shot at him. He decided he needed out of LA.
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by dthomas=ddixon »

I think we need to define terms. When people refer to recruiting as it relates to Chip and Mario they’re usually talking about the ability to sell and win recruiting battles for top level recruits against other major programs. It’s clear Mario was a below average evaluator of talent and/or what type of player fits his system, but he can sell and recruit as good as anyone.

Oregon football recruited itself during the Chip years and it’s well known that Chip put the bare minimum effort into recruiting he could because he hated it. The fact that Oregon was a practical CFB phenomenon during his years doesn’t change that. He was very good at finding the type of players that fit what he wanted to do and turning them into great college players but that doesn’t change the fact that he wasn’t a great “recruiter.”
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northbeachsf
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by northbeachsf »

Is this a joke?

MC was flat out terrible with team motivation, player development, game management, flexibility and strategy. In a span of 4 years, he lost to unranked OSU, ASU, Stanford, Utah, WSU, Cal, and UA. He managed to take take Taggart's offense that was averaging 50 PPG with a healthy Herbert and dial it back to the mid 30s in PPG. He was overly conservative to a fault and it would cost his team at least 2 bad losses a year. He was so bad with his in-game management, the fans were booing him at the Cal game the year before he left. Look what is happing down in Miami. They had a Top15 roster by blue chip ratio this season and he can't even find a way to make a bowl game. I guarantee that Kelly would have won 9-10 games with that same roster.

Chip may not be the best recruiter, but he is 10X the coach Mario will ever be.
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Re: Who’s the better coach?

Post by SuperDuck »

northbeachsf wrote:Is this a joke?

MC was flat out terrible with team motivation, player development, game management, flexibility and strategy. In a span of 4 years, he lost to unranked OSU, ASU, Stanford, Utah, WSU, Cal, and UA. He managed to take take Taggart's offense that was averaging 50 PPG with a healthy Herbert and dial it back to the mid 30s in PPG. He was overly conservative to a fault and it would cost his team at least 2 bad losses a year. He was so bad with his in-game management, the fans were booing him at the Cal game the year before he left. Look what is happing down in Miami. They had a Top15 roster by blue chip ratio this season and he can't even find a way to make a bowl game. I guarantee that Kelly would have won 9-10 games with that same roster.

Chip may not be the best recruiter, but he is 10X the coach Mario will ever be.
Agree^^^^
John 3:36
dthomas=ddixon
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Who’s the better coach?

Post by dthomas=ddixon »

northbeachsf wrote:Is this a joke?

MC was flat out terrible with team motivation, player development, game management, flexibility and strategy. In a span of 4 years, he lost to unranked OSU, ASU, Stanford, Utah, WSU, Cal, and UA. He managed to take take Taggart's offense that was averaging 50 PPG with a healthy Herbert and dial it back to the mid 30s in PPG. He was overly conservative to a fault and it would cost his team at least 2 bad losses a year. He was so bad with his in-game management, the fans were booing him at the Cal game the year before he left. Look what is happing down in Miami. They had a Top15 roster by blue chip ratio this season and he can't even find a way to make a bowl game. I guarantee that Kelly would have won 9-10 games with that same roster.

Chip may not be the best recruiter, but he is 10X the coach Mario will ever be.
Just FYI, this thread was started over two years ago, before Mario was exposed at Miami.

What are you basing your guarantee on? Chip hasn’t won 10 games once at UCLA and has a losing record overall. How could you guarantee 9-10 wins at Miami this past season?
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