#21 Oregon @ California (Dec. 5 Sat 4 PM ESPN)

[Duck07]

I also disagree with the Shough comment. If he’s our pocket passer, I’m scared.

My thoughts exactly. Nothing about Shough's game says "pocket passer." He's at his best when running out of the pocket. From the pocket, he kind of sucks. Every game, he throws 2-3 balls straight to defenders and he's regularly off target.

Overall, I really like our offensive playcalling now, but we need either a dominant RB or a dominant QB. Travis Dye should be a change-of-pace back, not our primary ball carrier. And Shough is the perfect backup, but not starter quality. It's not that he doesn't put up good stats, it's that he's just too wildly inconsistent and you never know when he's going to toss an unforced INT. We need an upgrade at QB or RB for the Ducks to really be good.

Everything about his game thru 4 games say he isn't a mobile qb and that he's best focusing on just throwing the ball. If you want to argue the semantics of that, fine. We'd be 5-0 if he was a mobile qb though with that skillset

[pezsez1]

Everything about his game thru 4 games say he isn't a mobile qb and that he's best focusing on just throwing the ball. If you want to argue the semantics of that, fine. We'd be 5-0 if he was a mobile qb though with that skillset

His best plays have been when running out of the pocket, including running the option. He isn't a good pocket passer because he makes too many unforced errors. He simply fails to see the defense. He also doesn't have the arm strength to reliably hit receivers in stride downfield. All of this has been painfully obvious since his first game this season, and sadly he hasn't shown any improvement. We're in big trouble if we're pinning our potential on him being a pocket passer.

That said, I agree that he isn't a great mobile QB, either. He's just better on the run than he is in the pocket.

If he were exceptional from either in or out of the pocket, then yes, I agree we'd be 5-0 quite easily.

[northbeachsf]

Its almost like we are playing like a team that lost its entire offensive line, it’s starting QB, it’s OC, 4 of their top 6 defensive players and didn’t get a chance to practice because of a pandemic.......

Oh wait....

Weird, do we have it worse off than other teams when it comes to Covid?

For sure! How many teams have 79 freshmen and sophomores on their roster? None.
We are the youngest team in the entire FBS, lost a ton of experience, and had reduced practice time. We are struggling with fundamentals and it is a direct result of that.

The expectations, considering the situation were ridiculous. I said at the start of the season that this team would probably drop a couple games and fans would lose their $&@). Here we are.

I noticed you didn't answer my question as it relates to Covid because every team is dealing with it and we've had much easier with Covid than Cal has and the disruption of practices. Further, we play in the worst Power 5 league and we're not losing games because Penei, Jevon and the DBs aren't here. We're losing them because we have a starting DL that's playing like they're all brand new starters and are forcing a pocket passing QB to be a runner when he's not.

You don’t think an experienced team full of juniors and seniors and returning starters has an advantage over a team that is essentially made up of 80% freshman and sophomores? Talent is one thing, but experience matters a ton, especially in a year when your new players miss an entire spring and have a delayed fall camp.

And we absolutely are losing games because of the opt outs by Breeze, Graham, and Holland. You think we would be missing tackles, letting receivers run free all over our secondary and be -7 in turnover margin with those guys in there? No chance.

It’s not like AA became a bad position coach overnight. He is having to dial back pressure and we are not blitzing nearly as much because he has to account for coverage deficiencies, missed tackles, and missed assignments on the second and third levels. Of course our D Line is under performing. It is 3 or 4 on 5 almost every snap.

My overall point was that the expectations were ridiculous considering the situation. COVID was one of many factors in that, which is amplified in our case because of the youth and inexperience of our team.

It’s not a talent or coaching issue right now. It is an experience issue.

[roleplay3r1]

I also disagree with the Shough comment. If he’s our pocket passer, I’m scared.

My thoughts exactly. Nothing about Shough's game says "pocket passer." He's at his best when running out of the pocket. From the pocket, he kind of sucks. Every game, he throws 2-3 balls straight to defenders and he's regularly off target.

Overall, I really like our offensive playcalling now, but we need either a dominant RB or a dominant QB. Travis Dye should be a change-of-pace back, not our primary ball carrier. And Shough is the perfect backup, but not starter quality. It's not that he doesn't put up good stats, it's that he's just too wildly inconsistent and you never know when he's going to toss an unforced INT. We need an upgrade at QB or RB for the Ducks to really be good.

Everything about his game thru 4 games say he isn't a mobile qb and that he's best focusing on just throwing the ball. If you want to argue the semantics of that, fine. We'd be 5-0 if he was a mobile qb though with that skillset

I know that part of this is just subjective opinion, but am I totally off base here thinking that Shough’s ability to rush the ball has led to numerous explosive plays so far this year? He isn’t necessarily fast, and like I said he has at times done a poor job of running the read option, but Shough has had explosive run plays almost every game this season. Hell, he has almost as many rushing yards as Verdell. Shough has shown shiftiness in the open field and enough speed to make defenses respect his legs.

On the contrary, when he sits in the pocket, I think we’ve seen the Oregon offense stall out many times. He doesn’t make good reads and has thrown to dangerous areas constantly. He realistically could have much more than 4 INT’s on the year. Can’t really complain about the WR play this year, either. Drops haven’t been much of a problem compared to years past.

[Duck07]

This is largely semantics now. Yes, he has made plays on the run but his inability to make the routine read cannot be dismissed which is why I state that he isn't a mobile qb or built for that offense. That he reads the middle of the field poorly has less to do with offensive style and more about him.

I'm sure he's a better athlete than Darron Thomas in a sparq score but DT could routinely make the proper read. Shough doesn't have to be an explosive athlete to make big runs in the offense, he has to consistently make the right read and he's hasn't been good at it. (Yes DT is a better pocket passer too, not my point)

That says to me that his skillset is better suited to being a traditional passing qb. I think he needs a 3-5-7 step drop back because he does have a good arm and that kind of system might help with his timing problems.

Neither Butterfield or Millen are built for this offense either.

[GoDucksTroll]

Shough can run. He just can’t make the read option decision properly. He also gets happy feet and bails too often.

It’s passing to wide open WRs that is his weakness. He also throws to open defenders a lot, a miracle there hasn’t been more INTs.

Can he improve? Maybe. Arm talent doesn’t really get fixed, but decision making does. 2006 Dennis Dixon was an INT machine. 2007 Heisman caliber.

[nogerO]

It’s safe to say NDSU would have rolled. The GAM had that game pegged. Anyone that would have followed the advice from the GAM results would have made a bundle betting against the way over hyped Ducks and completely underestimated 2020 NDSU BISON.

its tough to say anything positive about the NDSU program right now. The bison team that was scheduled to play here has disbanded with a number of transfers to FBS programs and the NFL.

The blm player protests at the one bison game this year has angered fans. Large amounts of support has been pulled. The AD Larson has been exposed as a back east liberal and is no longer welcome. NDSU assets and donations should have never been used promoting the murder of police, rioting, looting rapes and assaults. The age of The NDSU football men dominating the game is over. The spell has been broken. Like most universities there are very few men there now.

Oh well, maybe Ducks vs bison as the also rans they are morphing into.

Please leave.

I hope he stays. What he says makes sense.

You can leave too.

How bout you leave Mr. Self-important.

[greenyellow]

How about everyone just knock it off?

[nogerO]

Cancel culture in full display.

[northbeachsf]

Shough can run. He just can’t make the read option decision properly. He also gets happy feet and bails too often.

It’s passing to wide open WRs that is his weakness. He also throws to open defenders a lot, a miracle there hasn’t been more INTs.

Can he improve? Maybe. Arm talent doesn’t really get fixed, but decision making does. 2006 Dennis Dixon was an INT machine. 2007 Heisman caliber.

I think this is a good post. People need to remember that he is only making his 5th start. Most QBs we have had, with the exception of a Heisman winner, have had some pretty big struggles their first year. Even Herbert if you remember was a mess a few games his freshman year. In fact, Shough has better stats across the board than Herbert did during his first 5 games as a starter. Stats are not everything as Pezsez pointed out and decision making is an issue right now, but that can be fixed with experience.

I am not saying that Shough is going to be Herbert. I don’t see that happening. However, can he learn the system and how to read defenses better and become a Darren Thomas type QB, who is supper efficient and can run this offense consistently? Probably.

[ducks5ever]

I think this is a good post. People need to remember that he is only making his 5th start. Most QBs we have had, with the exception of a Heisman winner, have had some pretty big struggles their first year. Even Herbert if you remember was a mess a few games his freshman year. In fact, Shough has better stats across the board than Herbert did during his first 5 games as a starter. Stats are not everything as Pezsez pointed out and decision making is an issue right now, but that can be fixed with experience.

I am not saying that Shough is going to be Herbert. I don’t see that happening. However, can he learn the system and how to read defenses better and become a Darren Thomas type QB, who is supper efficient and can run this offense consistently? Probably.

This is just misleading. Playing your first game when you've been on campus for 3 months is not comparable to playing your first game after you've been on campus for 2 years. Yes, there is a new offense but there still is a level of familiarity and it's not fair to compare to a guy who's been on campus for just a few months. Are Alabama fans ok if Mac Jones flounders around for an entire season because it's just his first year as a starter? Earning the start at QB should mean you're the best man on the team to win games.

As far as his read option struggles, I'm guessing that he's just afraid of contact (wus!). He doesn't look particularly bulked up (after 2 years...) and I'm sure he runs these read option plays just fine in practice when he has a no-contact jersey on. He sometimes takes off after he hands the ball off and it's not like he's not aware that he could've just gained 5 yards vs. the 2 that Verdell just got

[OregonFan4Life]

Cancel culture in full display.

...........what? Is this a joke?

Not sure what your post towards me was about, DMoney was responding to a NDSU fan while I was responding to someone who multiple times said he’s no longer a fan of the ducks (and also appears to be a troll).

[UOducksTK1]

JBB causing waves when we are down, smart man!

Frankly, Oregon is playing terrible football. So many turnovers and bad penalties. Don't we usually attribute these problems to coaching?

[roleplay3r1]

This is largely semantics now. Yes, he has made plays on the run but his inability to make the routine read cannot be dismissed which is why I state that he isn't a mobile qb or built for that offense. That he reads the middle of the field poorly has less to do with offensive style and more about him.

I'm sure he's a better athlete than Darron Thomas in a sparq score but DT could routinely make the proper read. Shough doesn't have to be an explosive athlete to make big runs in the offense, he has to consistently make the right read and he's hasn't been good at it. (Yes DT is a better pocket passer too, not my point)

That says to me that his skillset is better suited to being a traditional passing qb. I think he needs a 3-5-7 step drop back because he does have a good arm and that kind of system might help with his timing problems.

Neither Butterfield or Millen are built for this offense either.

To each their own. Shough clearly has struggles adding the threat of the run to his repertoire. I think he has the legs and agility to do it as a change of pace, but his slight frame and poor reads are not a good fit for a pistol/read option heavy system, you’re right.

But sorry, I just can’t buy your argument that he’s fit for a drop back, sit in the pocket QB. His accuracy, to my eye, is simply not good enough. I think that problem is only partially influenced by his poor decision making and rushing his throws in the face of pressure. As it is, I like his ability to pull the ball and break off a good run a handful of times per game.

[GoDucksTroll]

I think this is a good post. People need to remember that he is only making his 5th start. Most QBs we have had, with the exception of a Heisman winner, have had some pretty big struggles their first year. Even Herbert if you remember was a mess a few games his freshman year. In fact, Shough has better stats across the board than Herbert did during his first 5 games as a starter. Stats are not everything as Pezsez pointed out and decision making is an issue right now, but that can be fixed with experience.

I am not saying that Shough is going to be Herbert. I don’t see that happening. However, can he learn the system and how to read defenses better and become a Darren Thomas type QB, who is supper efficient and can run this offense consistently? Probably.

This is just misleading. Playing your first game when you've been on campus for 3 months is not comparable to playing your first game after you've been on campus for 2 years. Yes, there is a new offense but there still is a level of familiarity and it's not fair to compare to a guy who's been on campus for just a few months. Are Alabama fans ok if Mac Jones flounders around for an entire season because it's just his first year as a starter? Earning the start at QB should mean you're the best man on the team to win games.

As far as his read option struggles, I'm guessing that he's just afraid of contact (wus!). He doesn't look particularly bulked up (after 2 years...) and I'm sure he runs these read option plays just fine in practice when he has a no-contact jersey on. He sometimes takes off after he hands the ball off and it's not like he's not aware that he could've just gained 5 yards vs. the 2 that Verdell just got

While it is a new system you’re right that not only is Shough in his third year removed from high school he has had this playbook since February. He also has worked with most of these RBs and WRs for a while, they should have some rapport. There is no substitute for live game reps.

I completely disagree that he’s afraid of contact - it’s the exact opposite. Shough doesn’t protect himself enough, and keeps when he shouldn’t just as often as handing off when he should keep.

These are the concerning things for me:

1. Shough is making the right decision less often than he did earlier this year. Both in the option game and who to target. Example: on goal to go for some reason tried to throw to Pittman where a DB made a great play to knock it down. Much easier throw to DJ Johnson for a 100% easy TD. Or run it with at worst a 50-50 chance.

2. Missing wide open receivers. Not seeing them like Redd on third down against Oregon State for the game winning first down. Or just air mailing it, like he did for Redd against Cal. Wide open man, threw it so far off that I thought it was a throw away at first. Devon Williams long TD against OSU was Williams breaking stride to catch it behind him at his knees.

3. He has thrown at defenders a lot, no Duck in the area. I have no idea what he’s doing or seeing. Their drops are bailing him out. Shough also was around Herbert too much - he thinks he has the arm to thread the needle like Justin did. He does not.

4. The offense is being limited by Shough and what the coaches think he can or can’t do.

The question is if he can improve, or by how much. With another year could he limit the mistakes, learn the reads, and make the right throw both schematically and physically? If he can’t then stop wasting time and reps on him. Give Butterfield or Ashford or Millen a chance, maybe Brown if he’s going to back. We can’t count on Ty Thompson, foolish to bank on a HS senior to be the QB for next season.