What does the future of Oregon football look like?

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OregonFan4Life
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What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by OregonFan4Life »

I imagine every other fan is still feeling the fresh sting of that loss and the realization that Oregon’s CFP chances are all but gone just 3 weeks after beating tOSU in the Shoe. As typical, we’re left saying “maybe next season” a feeling we all know way too well. Despite that, I’m gonna go ahead and start a conversation about what everyone thinks the future of Oregon football looks like. Do we someday, see Oregon once again make the CFP and even bring home the coveted national championship trophy? If so, what does Oregon football need to do to make that happen?

For me, there’s a few things Oregon need to do. First, Oregon needs to develop a real QB and have a legit downfield threat. We’ve seen QB’s drastically underperform under Mario, even current future NFL star Justin Herbert with an amazing arm that’s as good as it gets. So often Herbert just looked average at best against bad defenses and in hindsight a lot of us wondered about how good he truly was, but seeing him in the NFL makes it clear that he wasn’t the problem, it was coaching. We all thought it was Arroyo, and don’t get me wrong, he was awful, but this trend seems to continue and Oregon under Mario seems to not know how to create a downfield threat. At this point, I think Mario needs to start Ty and really work hard to develop him and get a legit downfield threat for this offense. I know Mario is overly obsessed with the power run game but you can’t have a consistent/good offense in football today without at least somewhat of a downfield threat. Brown has regressed and has hurt the team more than helped them lately and it cost them the game today. Why have a 6th year Sr out their playing sloppy when you can have an extremely talented true freshman out there playing sloppy when you at least know he’ll only get better? What we’ve seen with Brown is what we get, and today it was like watching Burmeister play QB. It’s time to put in Ty and work really hard to develop a legit downfield threat for the Oregon offense going forward. At the very least I think Mario needs to raise his expectations/standards for QB play, if Brown really did everything he asked of him today then what is he asking him? Breath and don’t get injured? He needs to ask more out of this starting QB’s…

Second, the defense scares me. I’m really afraid we’re gonna see a big drop off after next season when we don’t have KT, Sewell, Flowe, Wright, McKinley, Bennett, and others. Oregon was getting some elite defensive recruits with Donte Williams leading the way but then USC shows up at his house with truckloads of money and he’s gone now. Since he’s been gone we’ve seen Oregon miss on those elite defensive recruits. If we still have Donte Oregon gets one of Foreman, JTT, and Ika, heck maybe he gets all three! I’m afraid we’re gonna see a drop off in talent on the defense after next year cause the coaching staff cannot sustain the elite level of recruit they lost with Donte Williams.

Finally, I do think Mario needs to evaluate the coaching staff, and yes I’m aware I say that a lot. I know Mario has the rep of finding/hiring great coaches but I’m afraid there’s a couple duds. First I’m not so sure about Mirabel. The OLine’s play this season has been disappointing to say the least. They really struggle with pass protection, they can’t read blitzes, and they commit way too many costly penalties. It’s not all Brown’s fault we don’t have a downfield threat as Brown usually doesn’t have much time in the pocket, though the Oline did do better today and had good moments against tOSU, but overall they’ve been really bad this season with pass protection and even in 2019 when they were supposed to be amazing they struggled. It’s not just young guys too that we see get beat and get confused, we’re seeing it from upperclassmen, guys who have been here for a while. And the penalties, especially the false starts, really need to stop. Dye just converts a tough 4th down, has been running harder than I’ve ever seen him run before, then with a chance to seal the game an Olineman commits a false start with around 20 seconds left on the playclock? Every Olineman should know there’s a 0% chance the ball will get snapped with more than 5 seconds on the playclock, that is absolutely inexcusable and undisciplined football and makes me wonder how an Oline coach can allow that to happen. The second false start was Devon Williams so can’t blame the Oline for that, but 1 is way too many in that scenario. I cannot comprehend how that happened and any quality Oline coach would never let that happen.

The second coach I’m not so sure of is Rod Chance. I know he has the impossible task of replacing Donte Williams, but he has supposedly one of the best CB’s out there in Wright and he’s looked below average this year. The CB’s leave incredibly large cushions yet somehow still find a way to get beat. It’s simply way too easy for anyone to pass for 8 yards down the middle on the Oregon defense and the CB’s poor coverage is the biggest reason why. It doesn’t feel like Chance is coaching the CB’s up, but rather coaching them down. The CB play has left a lot to desire lately.

Other coaches I’m unsure of but don’t think should be fired are:
-Coach Joe, bad recruiter, but he sure coaches up guys big time. Still wish he could land an elite NT as the defense really needs that.
-Ken Wilson, recruits great LB’s but damn our LB’s are awful at pass coverage, they just stare at the QB’s eyes and let TE’s and RB’s walk right by then.
-Mastro, RB vision has been an issue and it doesn’t seem to be something they get better at.
-Moorehead, I’m afraid Ty won’t thrive in his offense since he had a strong arm and a real downfield threat.

So what does everyone else think? Does Oregon win a natty someday? And if so, what does Oregon football need to do to make that happen?
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by Oregon Ownage »

Geez Christ, it’s one loss. Calm down
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chapelhillduck
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by chapelhillduck »

We have downfield threats if our QB doesn’t overthrow them every single time


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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

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Oregon Ownage wrote:Geez Christ, it’s one loss. Calm down
Also, this


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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by Everythingsducky »

It’s one game. PAC-12 teams don’t go undefeated in conference, just doesn’t happen. Injuries have decimated this team. Swinson better be back next game. Forsyth and Bennett Williams out was huge. Ducks are deeper than they have been, but nobody can lose all the players they have, and realistically expect to go undefeated. Worst year for injuries so far, overall, than I can ever remember. BTW, if you want to gripe about the O play calling, Crapea said Mastro was calling the game.
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

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I feel like long term Oregon's fine. Cristobal has given a few games away but I have to say those are the only games he has lost. Also I really like Ty Thompson he's sort of like a blend of Mariota and Vernon Adams because he is tall like Mariota but the way he moves around and throws is similar to Adams.
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by OregonFan4Life »

Where’s this whole “calm down” thing coming from? Just asking to see if people think Oregon will win a natty someday and what they’d like to see Oregon so differently to get that natty. I get it’s one loss, but to me it isn’t just one game cause since the win at the Shoe Oregon has looked worse each week, leading up this this loss. If Oregon continues to play like this they will lose more games. Can’t rely on the opponents being at Stony Brook’s level or the opposing QB to throw five picks.
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by pezsez1 »

I already kind of commented about this in the game thread, but I think the future looks bright at Oregon.

Thing is, we won't really take that next step until we move on from Anthony Brown. Doesn't really matter if he starts the rest of the season and we win the rest of our games through the Pac-12 championship -- he's simply not good enough to be the QB of a national championship team, especially given the relative weakness of our running game. I don't think Dye and Verdell really scare anyone. Both are small, neither has great vision, they're inconsistent, and Verdell is usually injured.

I get it that all the position groups could play better right now, but it can't be helpful that the QB play is so inconsistent. Momentum really matters in college football, and we need a QB who can be a field general and keep this team firing on all cylinders. We also need the QB to make everyone else's jobs easier -- making better reads and being able to throw the ball downfield would be nice!

I'm convinced the next great Oregon QB is already on our roster. The coaches need to ask themselves whether they want the future to arrive now or later. The future IS bright.
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by OrTDuck »

I'll bite.

I think I posted a similar thought in the game thread, but I don't think you just decide one day you are a vertical passing team, and become one.

JM and MC want to run the ball, run the QB, mix in RPOs, use the TE, and add in a little short passing. To the extent there is a vertical threat, I imagine it's in being vanilla enough, that you take a few shots per game that teams aren't expecting. I would imagine that was part of the plan but through 11 games under JM hasn't (yet) materialized (and likely is needed to keep opponents more honest).

I think there is too much "square peg in round hole" going on offensively. MC and JM probably would be best served by going out and finding the right 6-2 "dual threat" QB, keeping the young OL talent they have brought in, get a Royce Freeman type RB, put Donte Thornton and Isaiah Brevard on the field, and maybe find a young George Kittle type at TE. Sort of create a modernized "old Stanford" model on offense. If it's gonna be MC and JM, the best we can hope for is probably JM "playing chess when others are playing checkers" and a few down field shots. I cannot foresee Mario ever pushing the ball down field by embracing a vertical passing attack (even with a borderline "five star" freshman gunslinger).

On defense, I thought the DeRuyter hire was solid but I agree I'm not sure where exactly things are headed yet. A mixed bag for sure. Oregon's "D" seems in line with a lot of what we are seeing in college football today. Perhaps the most concerning thing right now is there appear to be holes in this defense with no real plan to attempt a fix. Just live with them.

It was tantalizing to get to watch Sewell, Flowe, KT, Dorlus, Funa, Wright, and McKinley all playing together, and only to get to see it all for a short time. Two of maybe only three years with Flowe and what has he played, maybe a total of 60 snaps? It's hard to contemplate life without these guys as all of them (except McKinley) are only in their 3rd year or less, with that 6 game COVID deal being one year. These forms of "bend but don't break" seem pretty common these days and is reflected in both MC's DC hires, so probably it's about bringing in the most talent you can. I'd agree it's tough thinking about losing those 3 guys who represent 3 of the 5 highest rated recruits in program history (since such records began), but I'd imagine the differentiator is the ability to keep the cupboard full. And maybe some of these young guys stick around. I am high on Swinson, Manning, Buckner. The two kids from Lincoln (Tucker, Florence) are interesting, the kid from Alabama (Dudley), Halton (and maybe a recruit like Cyrus Moss) could be next generation on the DL.
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by OregonFan4Life »

OrTDuck wrote:I'll bite.

I think I posted a similar thought in the game thread, but I don't think you just decide one day you are a vertical passing team, and become one.

JM and MC want to run the ball, run the QB, mix in RPOs, use the TE, and add in a little short passing. To the extent there is a vertical threat, I imagine it's in being vanilla enough, that you take a few shots per game that teams aren't expecting. I would imagine that was part of the plan but through 11 games under JM hasn't (yet) materialized (and likely is needed to keep opponents more honest).

I think there is too much "square peg in round hole" going on offensively. MC and JM probably would be best served by going out and finding the right 6-2 "dual threat" QB, keeping the young OL talent they have brought in, get a Royce Freeman type RB, put Donte Thornton and Isaiah Brevard on the field, and maybe find a young George Kittle type at TE. Sort of create a modernized "old Stanford" model on offense. If it's gonna be MC and JM, the best we can hope for is probably JM "playing chess when others are playing checkers" and a few down field shots. I cannot foresee Mario ever pushing the ball down field by embracing a vertical passing attack (even with a borderline "five star" freshman gunslinger).

On defense, I thought the DeRuyter hire was solid but I agree I'm not sure where exactly things are headed yet. A mixed bag for sure. Oregon's "D" seems in line with a lot of what we are seeing in college football today. Perhaps the most concerning thing right now is there appear to be holes in this defense with no real plan to attempt a fix. Just live with them.

It was tantalizing to get to watch Sewell, Flowe, KT, Dorlus, Funa, Wright, and McKinley all playing together, and only to get to see it all for a short time. Two of maybe only three years with Flowe and what has he played, maybe a total of 60 snaps? It's hard to contemplate life without these guys as all of them (except McKinley) are only in their 3rd year or less, with that 6 game COVID deal being one year. These forms of "bend but don't break" seem pretty common these days and is reflected in both MC's DC hires, so probably it's about bringing in the most talent you can. I'd agree it's tough thinking about losing those 3 guys who represent 3 of the 5 highest rated recruits in program history (since such records began), but I'd imagine the differentiator is the ability to keep the cupboard full. And maybe some of these young guys stick around. I am high on Swinson, Manning, Buckner. The two kids from Lincoln (Tucker, Florence) are interesting, the kid from Alabama (Dudley), Halton (and maybe a recruit like Cyrus Moss) could be next generation on the DL.
Could Ashford be that QB for the JM system? And do you think that system of offense could be enough to get Oregon back to the CFP? We’re seeing more and more of football transitioning to a pass heavy game, do you think Oregon needs to adopt some of that?
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by duck023 »

OregonFan4Life wrote:
OrTDuck wrote:I'll bite.

I think I posted a similar thought in the game thread, but I don't think you just decide one day you are a vertical passing team, and become one.

JM and MC want to run the ball, run the QB, mix in RPOs, use the TE, and add in a little short passing. To the extent there is a vertical threat, I imagine it's in being vanilla enough, that you take a few shots per game that teams aren't expecting. I would imagine that was part of the plan but through 11 games under JM hasn't (yet) materialized (and likely is needed to keep opponents more honest).

I think there is too much "square peg in round hole" going on offensively. MC and JM probably would be best served by going out and finding the right 6-2 "dual threat" QB, keeping the young OL talent they have brought in, get a Royce Freeman type RB, put Donte Thornton and Isaiah Brevard on the field, and maybe find a young George Kittle type at TE. Sort of create a modernized "old Stanford" model on offense. If it's gonna be MC and JM, the best we can hope for is probably JM "playing chess when others are playing checkers" and a few down field shots. I cannot foresee Mario ever pushing the ball down field by embracing a vertical passing attack (even with a borderline "five star" freshman gunslinger).

On defense, I thought the DeRuyter hire was solid but I agree I'm not sure where exactly things are headed yet. A mixed bag for sure. Oregon's "D" seems in line with a lot of what we are seeing in college football today. Perhaps the most concerning thing right now is there appear to be holes in this defense with no real plan to attempt a fix. Just live with them.

It was tantalizing to get to watch Sewell, Flowe, KT, Dorlus, Funa, Wright, and McKinley all playing together, and only to get to see it all for a short time. Two of maybe only three years with Flowe and what has he played, maybe a total of 60 snaps? It's hard to contemplate life without these guys as all of them (except McKinley) are only in their 3rd year or less, with that 6 game COVID deal being one year. These forms of "bend but don't break" seem pretty common these days and is reflected in both MC's DC hires, so probably it's about bringing in the most talent you can. I'd agree it's tough thinking about losing those 3 guys who represent 3 of the 5 highest rated recruits in program history (since such records began), but I'd imagine the differentiator is the ability to keep the cupboard full. And maybe some of these young guys stick around. I am high on Swinson, Manning, Buckner. The two kids from Lincoln (Tucker, Florence) are interesting, the kid from Alabama (Dudley), Halton (and maybe a recruit like Cyrus Moss) could be next generation on the DL.
Could Ashford be that QB for the JM system? And do you think that system of offense could be enough to get Oregon back to the CFP? We’re seeing more and more of football transitioning to a pass heavy game, do you think Oregon needs to adopt some of that?
I'm more of a Butterfield guy. Although Ty Thompson seems to be the real deal I really like Butterfield too. He is a very accurate thrower and a better runner than people give him credit for.
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by rockthief »

chapelhillduck wrote:We have downfield threats if our QB doesn’t overthrow them every single time


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Indeed. His downfield touch is terrible and teams take advantage because there is no need to worry about long passes.
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

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chapelhillduck wrote:We have downfield threats if our QB doesn’t overthrow them every single time


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Yeah. Williams gets open deep at least once a game. If we still had Herbert they would have hooked up for at least 5 tds of 50+ yards.

As for Chance. I don’t think our passing D issues have been on him, unless he is in charge of our DB playing soft coverage, and our LB not being able to cover any passing downs.

And let’s be real, I can’t remember a team every losing so many starters and backups on D ever. Bennett breaks his am leaving during walk through? Bridges gets booted on the opening kickoff? Joe Mo gets an undisclosed health scare the morning of the game, and is in the hospital. We are starting a walk on at ILB, our arguably best DL is still hurt for unknown reason in Swinson. This is 07 all over again.

And on top of that the refs called the worst game I’ve seen since Cal in 2007. Not only the obvious, non called false start, the bogus PI on Wright, the BS call on KT. But the missed call on the face mask of Dye and hit on Redd.
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by OrTDuck »

I would say Ashford looks a lot more like the QBs who JM has chosen in the past at stops like Penn State and Mississippi State (in build and style), but there just doesn't seem too much momentum in that direction in the near term (I think Ashford missed a bunch of his senior year with injury).

It may be a case of wait and see where he might be in a couple years. If he is happy and developing, looks like at the very least a good #2 QB option if not more (that is, a talented guy at #2 you feel confident can come in and you can run some things for and win with).

Ty is interesting because he has good size and athleticism, but I don't think he really wants to run the ball much. We have seen a couple quarters and he is 2 carries for -3 (the RPOs go to the backs or are throws). In the Spring game, he was credited with one rush, which I believe was a sack. I think Ty wants a game plan where he is allowed to drop back and thrown 40 times a game (and I dig that but that isn't a JM game plan). In 22 games as a junior and senior (in the shorter HS game) he averaged 32 pass attempts a game. He did rush about 8 times a game for about 5.3 ypc, so it's something I'm sure he can do, I'm just not sure he wants to, maybe I'm reading too much into it.

I just feel JM (and likely MC) want a 6-2 Jeriamiah Masoli type, who comes into a game wanting to run over people 15 times a game, rather than another Herbert, who he can't run, but who can thrown pinpoint strikes all over the field. Philosophies and all that (I mean of course the perfect QB is great at everything but how many NFL QBs even fit that description). If they are gonna sink or swim with this philosophy, at least get the right kind of pieces in there (I'd suggest one of the possibly underappreciated factors of that Stanford period, they had a lot of guys: tall WRs, rangy TEs, durable RBs, jumbo OL that really fit their thing). Mario wants to play Standford, but with a portal QB with two major leg injuries, a pair of 5-9 RB, a bunch of quick little 5-10 WRs, freshman TEs, and 290 pound walk-on OGs, etc. (and not a single thing against any of those guys are all legit P5 guys, again, just philosophies).
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Re: What does the future of Oregon football look like?

Post by duck023 »

OrTDuck wrote:I would say Ashford looks a lot more like the QBs who JM has chosen in the past at stops like Penn State and Mississippi State (in build and style), but there just doesn't seem too much momentum in that direction in the near term (I think Ashford missed a bunch of his senior year with injury).

It may be a case of wait and see where he might be in a couple years. If he is happy and developing, looks like at the very least a good #2 QB option if not more (that is, a talented guy at #2 you feel confident can come in and you can run some things for and win with).

Ty is interesting because he has good size and athleticism, but I don't think he really wants to run the ball much. We have seen a couple quarters and he is 2 carries for -3 (the RPOs go to the backs or are throws). In the Spring game, he was credited with one rush, which I believe was a sack. I think Ty wants a game plan where he is allowed to drop back and thrown 40 times a game (and I dig that but that isn't a JM game plan). In 22 games as a junior and senior (in the shorter HS game) he averaged 32 pass attempts a game. He did rush about 8 times a game for about 5.3 ypc, so it's something I'm sure he can do, I'm just not sure he wants to, maybe I'm reading too much into it.

I just feel JM (and likely MC) want a 6-2 Jeriamiah Masoli type, who comes into a game wanting to run over people 15 times a game, rather than another Herbert, who he can't run, but who can thrown pinpoint strikes all over the field. Philosophies and all that (I mean of course the perfect QB is great at everything but how many NFL QBs even fit that description). If they are gonna sink or swim with this philosophy, at least get the right kind of pieces in there (I'd suggest one of the possibly underappreciated factors of that Stanford period, they had a lot of guys: tall WRs, rangy TEs, durable RBs, jumbo OL that really fit their thing). Mario wants to play Standford, but with a portal QB with two major leg injuries, a pair of 5-9 RB, a bunch of quick little 5-10 WRs, freshman TEs, and 290 pound walk-on OGs, etc. (and not a single thing against any of those guys are all legit P5 guys, again, just philosophies).
I'm not sure about that because Moorehead doesn't really seem to run an offense like Chip Kelly's that relies on the qb run. I think the only reason they run the option so much right now is because that is what Brown does best. From what I've seen at Penn St he actually likes to air it out more than Chip did so I'm not sure that Ty isn't his style of quarterback. I do agree Ty's is like a tall Veron Adams he can run but he isn't an option quarterback.
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