Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

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droop10
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by droop10 »

ducks5ever wrote:What I find odd is that the stat lines for the offense look completely fine. The only negative are the two fumbles which probably made the game a lot closer than it should have been. A QB with a 71% completion rate and an RB averaging 7.5 ypc is typically nothing to complain about. As sloppy as the game looked, if CMC can find ways to get rid of the dumb penalties and ball security issues, we should be fine?

The defense. The Ken Wilson comment is unmerited. We're playing 3rd string guys so they're obviously not going to meet expectations at times. I dont know if its the ILB's that are holding the team back but the defense just doesn't look that great. Again I'm not sure what the exact issue is but that first Cal TD (like that first Stanford TD), was way too easy. The defense is playing a lot of snaps and it's not completely due to the fact that the offense is turning the ball over. The defense isn't helping itself at all on 3rd downs.
Offenses generally look their best on the first drive. They’re running through their scripted plays they’ve rehearsed through the week, and the defense is feeling things out. They adjusted really well after the first drive on defense in both games, so I’m not sweating that. I agree the linebackers have been decimated, so to call out Wilson is ridiculous. With Funa also missing yesterday, in addition to the other guys already out, they are running out of guys to trot out there. They have walk-ons and true freshmen playing significant amounts of snaps. Don’t think that’s a development issue.
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by Duck07 »

I think the defense is struggling on an individual level and not a schematic level. I want to say it was right after the Hutson fumble where Cal is inside the 10 or so and they threw a Bubble screen.

Jamal Hill tries to jump in the air for a split second thinking he could pick it off instead of sprinting to the WR and stopping the play for a negligible gain, instead it goes for big yardage because he went for the big play rather than the simple play.

At the same time, in modern football its hard to limit everything an offense does. last night was again about the inability of the offense to control drives and score points moreso than the Defense. Not that there aren't areas to improve but you put Flowe or Mathis on the field and more runs are getting stuffed too.
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

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I've been impressed with the defensive all year and this game was no exception. They made the key plays in this game. Brown is a great leader and gets W's but with him you are going to have low scoring games so I'm not too worried about that because I have a feeling Brown will play really well against UCLA. Then he can game manage and win most of the other games. I've said it at the beginning of the year that this year is all about winning the game. I don't have enough confidence in Brown and Dye as the QB/RB combination to blow out teams the way Mariota and Freeman did or Darron Thomas and Lamichael James did. However I do think they can show their veteran leadership and squeak out these Pac 12 games and play up to the competition against top teams.
Last edited by duck023 on Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by ducks5ever »

ducks5ever wrote:What I find odd is that the stat lines for the offense look completely fine. The only negative are the two fumbles which probably made the game a lot closer than it should have been. A QB with a 71% completion rate and an RB averaging 7.5 ypc is typically nothing to complain about. As sloppy as the game looked, if CMC can find ways to get rid of the dumb penalties and ball security issues, we should be fine?

The defense. The Ken Wilson comment is unmerited. We're playing 3rd string guys so they're obviously not going to meet expectations at times. I dont know if its the ILB's that are holding the team back but the defense just doesn't look that great. Again I'm not sure what the exact issue is but that first Cal TD (like that first Stanford TD), was way too easy. The defense is playing a lot of snaps and it's not completely due to the fact that the offense is turning the ball over. The defense isn't helping itself at all on 3rd downs.
Had a good breakfast and I think I know what the problem is now. AB's inability to push the field far down the field means that we have to run 8-13 plays correctly to go the distance to score a touchdown. This means that we have to string together that many good plays to punch it in. On the other hand if he could connect deep down the field, you only have to execute 5-8 plays in a sequence correctly to score. So while the offense does what it's supposed to do most of the time (as it looks on paper), the small number of plays that don't work out, or result in offensive penalties pretty much kill the drives as AB doesn't have the ability to get a ton of yards back on 2nd & 11 or 2nd & 17. I'm not going to start a TS vs AB debate but that's pretty much what TS did early on in the season. Shough's throws weren't good but he was able to connect deep and that resulted in points early on in the season last year. If this assessment is correct, then I guess the only answer is to switch QB's *assuming* that there is a QB on the roster who is capable of making those deep throws.
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by Duck07 »

I don't have access to the tracking of QB passes, but I would say it isn't the "Deep" passes that the offense needs but its the 10-15 yard range where AB really hurts as a passer. Those are the passes that require zip and timing when the WR comes out of their breaks and its how you get those box defenders to back up. Granted, we don't really have those passes in the 20 yard range at all but when I see clips of important plays where he's missed, its that 10-15 yard range where the route is wide open.

The other thing is that by refusing to hit those routes, you don't give the WR the chance to break open a few more yards either or get the team in a more favorable down/distance to go for it possibly. That 3rd and 14 early on where I think he settled on Dye but left 2 wide open WRs alone is a major problem. I'm glad Verone McKinley and the players are mad that fans booed Brown (In my mind they were booing Mario) but his statement where he repeats Chip saying essentially that "fans don't know what they're talking about" ignores the tape.
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by Duck07 »

OrTDuck wrote:"I hate to say it but TT should’ve gone somewhere else, he made a mistake deciding to play for Mario."

I think TT is following the "Herbert Plan."

You play in Mario's odd, QB unfriendly offense, and after 2-3 seasons, when you get to the NFL, playing QB there seems easy.
TT can't follow the Herbert plan, he just doesn't have that kind of arm. Herbert and Josh Allen are just different like that and its funny they even played a game in college. Lamar, Kyler, Mahomes are different and dangerous in other ways and that's what TT will need to find for himself as a QB.

I'm not really convinced the coaches at this point can hurt TT development-wise because I don't think the play-calls are the issue (I think the scheme is bunk and flawed but plays are there to be made). I also don't think the OL is so terrible that he's going to get killed back there unless he holds onto it longer than AB has, at which point go to Butterfield or since you really want the QB to be a running threat, put in Ashford since he's the most electric runner of the QBs.

Now last year I did make the statement that Hidden Valley's Sam Vidlak needed to go to OSU because it fit him as a QB far better than what we want from our QB. The fact that we tried to recruit him late even is baffling in that regard even if he routinely showed the ability to go read a defense and cycle through progressions. Tanner Bailey seems like what we want and that seems underwhelming to me.
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by DuckzRule »

Hoping we can win the rest of our games, even tho it's unlikely.
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by Phalanx »

They were definitely booing Brown - the biggest boos came after Brown threw behind a wide-open receiver that was only about 7 yards down the field.
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by buckmarkduck »

Is it worse to miss open receivers by 5 yards, or not even throw to them at all?
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by Duck07 »

buckmarkduck wrote:Is it worse to miss open receivers by 5 yards, or not even throw to them at all?
I think I could live with a guy who sees the play but can't always make it. The problem is that a lot of us have reached the "next" stage so we can live it with from a young QB that would seemingly improve from the reps.
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by lmduck »

It was embarrassing to hear the boos. No matter what, that is never acceptable. That was an ugly moment and some ‘Duck fans’ need to take a long hard look in the mirror.


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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by Quietduck »

What I saw looked like a team coming off of fall camp not one halfway through the season. Every play that failed had an open successful play there if the right decision is made. On the fourth down on the same line as the throw that was made was a wide-open receiver ten yards further down the field. On several of our running plays, Brown kept the ball when the end was attacking him and pitched when he wasn't. A choice the other way and it goes for a first. For me, Brown is almost binary either he does everything right or everything wrong and there is no telling which you are going to get. Also, I see the defenses are lining their whole team within ten yards of the line on most plays. Other than fades we never seem to throw fly's or deep posts and corners so they don't need to respect the deep ball and pull back. I don't know if this is by plan or talent but I would like to see more deep routes crossing or straight speed runs.
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by Phalanx »

lmduck wrote:It was embarrassing to hear the boos. No matter what, that is never acceptable. That was an ugly moment and some ‘Duck fans’ need to take a long hard look in the mirror.


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I'm not big on booing, but it usually only happens when someone is doing a bad job, so for me, it's like the market's reaction. It seems unproductive to try to silence the boos via shaming. Better to improve the product. Doubtless those same people cheered the dramatic improvement later in the game.
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Re: Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by rockthief »

buckmarkduck wrote:Is it worse to miss open receivers by 5 yards, or not even throw to them at all?
yes
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Cal @ #8 Oregon (Oct. 15, Fri 7:30 PM ESPN)

Post by lmduck »

Phalanx wrote:
lmduck wrote:It was embarrassing to hear the boos. No matter what, that is never acceptable. That was an ugly moment and some ‘Duck fans’ need to take a long hard look in the mirror.


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I'm not big on booing, but it usually only happens when someone is doing a bad job, so for me, it's like the market's reaction. It seems unproductive to try to silence the boos via shaming. Better to improve the product. Doubtless those same people cheered the dramatic improvement later in the game.
Agree and my point was not to shame anyone. Just feel it’s not appropriate. In another thread I recounted what happened at Stanford a couple of weeks ago by Duck fans literally siting right directly behind members of AB’s family. It was pretty embarrassing.


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Last edited by lmduck on Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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