#4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

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lmduck

#4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by lmduck »

pezsez1 wrote:Wow, I guess I had a moment of extreme word spew haha.

I hope we make a big change. That would be an easy way to do it. I'm not calling for his head though, and if it turns out them AB was the problem the whole time then great.
I figured something along those lines was your original point. As I said, I’m sure most of us were saying stuff last night that was both hyperbolic and vitriolic.

All good


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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by QuackininBama »

lmduck wrote:
pezsez1 wrote:
Yikes- so now we're firing JM??? Come on- we're better than this. MOST here are reasonable, honest posters who offer good and fair insights, but this is beneath how decent fans behave.
Yikes... I said no such thing! I'm not calling for anyone to be fired. I'm far more reasonable than that.

I'm pointing out the simple truth that something is wrong with our offense. Is it JM's schemes? Is it MC's reluctance to bench a senior for a more talented freshman? Is it that TT is a bust in waiting? We don't know the answers to these questions, but assuming nothing changes over the offseason then we'll probably have far more clarity next year.
Maybe we as fans need to do what the team is expected to do, flush this game NOW and move forward.
Of course we'll still talk about the Utah game, but I'm fully confident in our ability to still win the Pac-12 title and even the Rose Bowl. A lot of Oregon's flaws got exposed in the Utah game (obviously), but we still shot ourselves in the foot enough to keep it from being nearly tied at halftime. We had at least two drives killed by penalties, a blocked FG and a missed FB... that's potentially 20 pts that we left on the field. The second half could have unfolded like so many of our other games this season... running the ball and wearing Utah down until we pull away late.

I hope we beat OSU (not a given!) and get a rematch with Utah. I believe the outcome will be different and we'll win the Pac-12 title. I'm definitely worried about McKinley being out, and suddenly losing three rotation receivers for the year won't help our run game, but this team is still loaded with talent and we should still be able to run. We just can't afford to do our opponent's dirty work.
Pez- I like reading your posts. You always make decent points and are factual.

Respectfully here is your last paragraph in your post:

At this point, I'm hoping that JM gets fired or moves on and that we get a clean start for our offense. New coordinator, new QB. It was just so bad this season -- again -- and we won't be a viable playoff team without significant improvement of our offense. We cannot expect to beat complete teams if we can't throw the ball on a consistent basis. We also cannot win if we're doomed by a 2nd & 10.

Maybe I misinterpreted what you are saying here and if so I apologize. I know we all say things in the heat of the moment and believe me, I said my share last night as I was 'speaking' quite loudly to my TV.

All good though. I was just surprised at the comment because as I said you are a sound and reasonable poster.
I don't understand your posts. So you are stating, "Lets just keep doing what we are doing and hope for the best"? Are you watching these games? Are you absorbing how a team that was ranked 6th in recruiting nationally is struggling to beat............well pretty much anyone. Do you watch other teams play? Do you see how the other teams who are recruiting at the same level are blowing people out of the water and we struggle to beat a 1-5 cal team? So you watched this team play last night and thought to yourself it was a one off and nothing to see here?

I respect your opinion but there is a serious problem in Oregon. So to get to your point, should JM be fired? YES, without a doubt, and twice on Sundays. Our offensive is an abomination. Its literally horrible. Everyone in the nation see's it. Seriously. Take ESPN. Herbstreit and Corso have been Oregon homers for the last 15 years, but this weekend not one, but BOTH of them said, and I quote, "Oregon does not deserve that ranking and they should not be in the playoffs". And they are right. This team is not good at all, and it starts with the quarterback. And JM seems to be just fine with trotting out AB to run around confused not sure what he is doing and hoping he will run for 300 yards a game so no one notices he is incapable of passing a ball more then 10 yards downfield.

I'm sorry. This team, as it stands, is not very good, and based on recruiting statistics, should be right up there with Ohio State, Georgia, Clemson and Alabama. We look like crap. Period. So what is your answer?
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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by droop10 »

QuackininBama wrote:
lmduck wrote:
pezsez1 wrote:
Yikes- so now we're firing JM??? Come on- we're better than this. MOST here are reasonable, honest posters who offer good and fair insights, but this is beneath how decent fans behave.
Yikes... I said no such thing! I'm not calling for anyone to be fired. I'm far more reasonable than that.

I'm pointing out the simple truth that something is wrong with our offense. Is it JM's schemes? Is it MC's reluctance to bench a senior for a more talented freshman? Is it that TT is a bust in waiting? We don't know the answers to these questions, but assuming nothing changes over the offseason then we'll probably have far more clarity next year.
Maybe we as fans need to do what the team is expected to do, flush this game NOW and move forward.
Of course we'll still talk about the Utah game, but I'm fully confident in our ability to still win the Pac-12 title and even the Rose Bowl. A lot of Oregon's flaws got exposed in the Utah game (obviously), but we still shot ourselves in the foot enough to keep it from being nearly tied at halftime. We had at least two drives killed by penalties, a blocked FG and a missed FB... that's potentially 20 pts that we left on the field. The second half could have unfolded like so many of our other games this season... running the ball and wearing Utah down until we pull away late.

I hope we beat OSU (not a given!) and get a rematch with Utah. I believe the outcome will be different and we'll win the Pac-12 title. I'm definitely worried about McKinley being out, and suddenly losing three rotation receivers for the year won't help our run game, but this team is still loaded with talent and we should still be able to run. We just can't afford to do our opponent's dirty work.
Pez- I like reading your posts. You always make decent points and are factual.

Respectfully here is your last paragraph in your post:

At this point, I'm hoping that JM gets fired or moves on and that we get a clean start for our offense. New coordinator, new QB. It was just so bad this season -- again -- and we won't be a viable playoff team without significant improvement of our offense. We cannot expect to beat complete teams if we can't throw the ball on a consistent basis. We also cannot win if we're doomed by a 2nd & 10.

Maybe I misinterpreted what you are saying here and if so I apologize. I know we all say things in the heat of the moment and believe me, I said my share last night as I was 'speaking' quite loudly to my TV.

All good though. I was just surprised at the comment because as I said you are a sound and reasonable poster.
I don't understand your posts. So you are stating, "Lets just keep doing what we are doing and hope for the best"? Are you watching these games? Are you absorbing how a team that was ranked 6th in recruiting nationally is struggling to beat............well pretty much anyone. Do you watch other teams play? Do you see how the other teams who are recruiting at the same level are blowing people out of the water and we struggle to beat a 1-5 cal team? So you watched this team play last night and thought to yourself it was a one off and nothing to see here?

I respect your opinion but there is a serious problem in Oregon. So to get to your point, should JM be fired? YES, without a doubt, and twice on Sundays. Our offensive is an abomination. Its literally horrible. Everyone in the nation see's it. Seriously. Take ESPN. Herbstreit and Corso have been Oregon homers for the last 15 years, but this weekend not one, but BOTH of them said, and I quote, "Oregon does not deserve that ranking and they should not be in the playoffs". And they are right. This team is not good at all, and it starts with the quarterback. And JM seems to be just fine with trotting out AB to run around confused not sure what he is doing and hoping he will run for 300 yards a game so no one notices he is incapable of passing a ball more then 10 yards downfield.

I'm sorry. This team, as it stands, is not very good, and based on recruiting statistics, should be right up there with Ohio State, Georgia, Clemson and Alabama. We look like crap. Period. So what is your answer?
You choose to cherry-pick the teams that fit your narrative. Oregon has only truly recruited at a high level for a couple of years (recruiting rankings in the late teens isn’t championship level recruiting), while the teams you list have been doing it consistently for a decade plus. The difference is they have highly recruited classes that are upper classmen, while most of Oregon’s are still underclassmen. Also they have had top 5 classes every year, while Oregon has only had 2 top 10 classes. Their classes are on a different level. Bama is out there grayshirting 4 stars because they have too much talent coming in every year.

You also ignore teams like LSU, USC, Texas, etc. that have consistently recruited at a level equal to or better than Oregon for years and are struggling to even win games, let alone let teams stay close. Not to mention your Clemson example is rough given their struggles this year. I realize they’ve been dominant in years past, but it shows even a championship level coach with a loaded roster can have a year where things don’t click. They’re struggling with the number 1 ranked QB of his class, not a 6th year 3 star QB. People just need to have some freaking patience. Dabo was at Clemson for 8 years before they got that first championship. Remember how the term “Clemson-ing” was a thing?

The program is being built back up, and still has some warts. They’re getting more talent each year and within the next couple of years should be at that Clemson level. Given the QB situation and injuries this year, 9-2 is a hell of an accomplishment. Moorhead is one of the best OCs in the country. The fact that you’re asking for him to be fired is laughable. The offense has its issues, but to call it an abomination is ridiculous. They are still 38th in scoring after that awful game this week. They were top 20 in the country prior to that. Is it as sexy as the old Chip offenses? No, but to call it an abomination is silly.
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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by dthomas=ddixon »

QuackininBama wrote:I'm sorry. This team, as it stands, is not very good, and based on recruiting statistics, should be right up there with Ohio State, Georgia, Clemson and Alabama. We look like crap. Period. So what is your answer?
The answer is your premise is wrong. Our best class was ranked 6th and that was the most recent class, 2021. So they’re true freshman right now.

If you actually look at that class there’s a big gap between it and the top ranked classes, which are packed full of 5*s. We had none; Clemson, Georgia, tOSU, and Bama had 3, 4, 7, and 7, respectively.

2020 was 11th and actually had 3 5*s but was mostly 3*s, hence it’s 11th spot. And again, not on par with the group you mentioned, which were all top 5 and loaded.

2019 was 7th and had Thibs in it, but again looked very different than the classes at the top as it was majority 3*s.

2018 was 13th and really nothing special, only a few spots above UW and UCLA.

2107, which contained 6 current starters before injuries, was 19th and had 5 4*s and 2 3*s.

So, again, your premise that we should be competing with the Georgias, tOSUs, Clemsons, and Bamas because we have comparable recruiting classes is objectively wrong. The funny thing is, using your metric we’re actually performing above expectations; we’re much better than Clemson this year and, of course, soundly beat tOSU at The Shoe.
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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by karlhungis »

Cristobal called Mastro the best OL coach in the nation just last week. He will never fire him.


EDIT: I'm a maroon. I thought the line was a bigger problem than the RB's.
Last edited by karlhungis on Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by OregonFan4Life »

karlhungis wrote:Cristobal called Mastro the best OL coach in the nation just last week. He will never fire him.
Isn’t he the RB coach?
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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by UofDuck »

What’s sad is I was a huge Mario fan and I still really like the guy and how he handles himself, but something clearly appears to be broken. I think part of it is he truly believes he can win by simply getting big bodies on the Oline and pound people into submission. That simply does not work in today’s game. Defenses are dynamic and offenses put up too many points by sophisticated schemes that you have to try to keep up with. I think he’s still hellbent on proving running between the tackles is is still the right answer - who needs a QB that can throw….


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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by lmduck »

karlhungis wrote:Cristobal called Mastro the best OL coach in the nation just last week. He will never fire him.
Mastro is the RB coach


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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by Kimber45 »

I’ve come by here to check on a couple game threads this year, as well as the BYU MBB thread, just to see if my thinking is still in line with the Oregon brain trust.

For the most part it is so the time feels right for my annual-ish drive by shitepost on ChatforQuacks.

I don’t say this as if it’s fact, or even as opinion, but as metaphor:

Anthony Brown played the Utah game like a guy who was higher than giraffe pussy (devil’s lettuce reference).

Indifferent, indecisive, unfocused and with no fire in his belly to actually win the game. On one play when Oregon needed two yards for a first down Brown ran sideways toward the sideline LOS marker rather than upfield into a defender to make the play.

He can throw a 20 yard rope to the sideline for a five yard out but lacks both the timing and touch to make a TE seam route down the middle. So much of AB’s pass yardage is made by receivers after the catch. And all this team needs is for AB to be a competent game manager.

I’ve had serious doubts about Oregon being a legitimate CFB contender all season. But the OSU win definitely earned a place onto the early season map too.

The 2020 CFB season was a throw away on account of coof coof, but AB’s crap performance in the Fiesta was exactly what we saw again against Utah. The guy has a ceiling so the offense has been crafted around a QB whose skill set consists of screen, outs, shallow crossing patterns and improvised running.

Despite the current record, count me in the camp of fans who felt that we should have spent this season moving forward at the QB position.
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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by StevensTechU »

I can't will myself to read all the posts on this thread, but if the primary gripe is AB, did you even watch the game?

The OL was terrible early, which led to happy feet from AB the rest of the game. The OL also couldn't create a hole if you gave them a shovel. If you're a running team and that happens, you're going to need a miracle. Cardwell, at least so far, looks more like Kani Benoit (great vision, lacks top end speed or physicality) than Duck greats. He and Dye need the line to open things up and they just didn't.

On defense, were our DBs trying to cover tight ends? Who honestly watches Mykael Wright play week-to-week and goes "yea, that's an NFL CB right there." The dropoff in the whole backfield from Holland-Lenoir-Graham a couple years ago has been massive. I thought the DL actually was OK, but the linebackers, including Sewell for a lot of crucial plays, was downright bad. If I had to put Utah's 99% success rate on 3rd down on any one group, it was the linebackers. Bassa played a great game at washington, but this game made it clear that perhaps that had something to do with washington sucking.

Aaaaaand then AB wasn't good. His downfield vision is just so, so poor, and his accuracy is infuriating, to boot.
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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by greenyellow »

StevensTechU wrote:I can't will myself to read all the posts on this thread, but if the primary gripe is AB, did you even watch the game?

The OL was terrible early, which led to happy feet from AB the rest of the game. The OL also couldn't create a hole if you gave them a shovel. If you're a running team and that happens, you're going to need a miracle. Cardwell, at least so far, looks more like Kani Benoit (great vision, lacks top end speed or physicality) than Duck greats. He and Dye need the line to open things up and they just didn't.

On defense, were our DBs trying to cover tight ends? Who honestly watches Mykael Wright play week-to-week and goes "yea, that's an NFL CB right there." The dropoff in the whole backfield from Holland-Lenoir-Graham a couple years ago has been massive. I thought the DL actually was OK, but the linebackers, including Sewell for a lot of crucial plays, was downright bad. If I had to put Utah's 99% success rate on 3rd down on any one group, it was the linebackers. Bassa played a great game at washington, but this game made it clear that perhaps that had something to do with washington sucking.

Aaaaaand then AB wasn't good. His downfield vision is just so, so poor, and his accuracy is infuriating, to boot.
I'm surprised more people weren't getting on the OL for their poor performance. There were multiple times where OL weren't blocking anyone or got confused by stunts up front and that allowed defenders to get pressure on Brown. They also weren't picking up defenders well in the run game.

Another thing I was confused by was them putting Dye in motion nearly every play in the first half and then never actually giving him the ball because the play was either a pass play or a straight QB run. I get they were trying to expose Utah's coverage and blitzes but it seemed to keep Dye and the run game off track.
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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by DmoneyDuck »

StevensTechU wrote:I can't will myself to read all the posts on this thread, but if the primary gripe is AB, did you even watch the game?

The OL was terrible early, which led to happy feet from AB the rest of the game. The OL also couldn't create a hole if you gave them a shovel. If you're a running team and that happens, you're going to need a miracle. Cardwell, at least so far, looks more like Kani Benoit (great vision, lacks top end speed or physicality) than Duck greats. He and Dye need the line to open things up and they just didn't.

On defense, were our DBs trying to cover tight ends? Who honestly watches Mykael Wright play week-to-week and goes "yea, that's an NFL CB right there." The dropoff in the whole backfield from Holland-Lenoir-Graham a couple years ago has been massive. I thought the DL actually was OK, but the linebackers, including Sewell for a lot of crucial plays, was downright bad. If I had to put Utah's 99% success rate on 3rd down on any one group, it was the linebackers. Bassa played a great game at washington, but this game made it clear that perhaps that had something to do with washington sucking.

Aaaaaand then AB wasn't good. His downfield vision is just so, so poor, and his accuracy is infuriating, to boot.
Anthony Brown is the scape goat for Duck fans this year, and it's beyond frustrating to listen to and read. Humans love finding one person to blame their troubles on and this year it's Brown.

Was he perfect on Saturday? Absolutely not.

- He fell down in the backfield for a massive loss in Utah territory
- He struggled throwing intermediate routes; missing a key check-down to Webb on a 3rd and 19 which would've resulted in a much more make-able field goal for Lewis

But he didn't decide to go for a score on the final drive of halftime, resulting in the PR for a touchdown. He didn't decide to get cute with the play-calling once Oregon got into the red zone. He didn't decide to abandon the run game.

This was a TEAM loss.

The coaches were pretty bad across the board. Oregon had a tough time matching Utah's energy for whatever reason.

The defense was equally bad. When your defense can't get off the field on 3rd down, that s*** is demoralizing. Even when it looked like Oregon was about to make it a game when they got a TD out of the half to cut it to 28-7, the defense allowed Utah to go on a marathon drive to kill any hope of a comeback.

Also, I feel like the injuries are really start to make their impact felt in the back seven.

Overall, a tough loss but it's time to move on and focus on winning the North.
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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by pezsez1 »

Definitely, this was a team loss... but I think the reason why AB gets so much blame is he's this team's most glaring weak link.

AB does what he does well really well. He can run and throw short-yardage passes. He's great at usually getting small chunks of yardage consistently enough to string together drives -- the kind of long drives that can exhaust the opposing defense and pave the way to wins.

But... he's consistently been unable to reliably throw the ball 10-15 yards, and it's basically a stroke of luck (and being bailed out by receivers) whenever he completes a deep pass.

In today's era of college football, it's just incredibly difficult to win without a high-powered offense, and the QB position is clearly what's holding us back. I'm personally trying not to put all the blame on AB... we can't see what's happening in practice and it's impossible to know whether the coaches have screwed up the season by not giving TT (or someone else) a bigger look. But, I mean, it is what it is, right? Switch out AB for a Masoli or Darron Thomas and this team is probably undefeated right now. Switch out AB for a Herbert or Mariota and we might even be a legit national championship contender despite our warts elsewhere.

I do think it's wrong to blame AB. He's a sixth-year senior and he is what he is. The coaches know that and are responsible for the QB rotation and offensive playcalling. They're also in charge of recruiting and development. This is on them. I'm not sure which coach is mostly to blame for this, but really it's on them.
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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by dthomas=ddixon »

This team obviously has other flaws that get exposed at times but the consistent, glaring issue is our starting QB can’t pass the ball. It’s great that he has other qualities but at the most important position we’re starting a player who can’t really do the main thing his position is on the field for, so don’t act like fans are football Neanderthals for harping on it.


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Re: #4 Oregon @ #24 Utah (Nov. 20, Sat 4:30 PM ABC)

Post by StevensTechU »

dthomas=ddixon wrote:This team obviously has other flaws that get exposed at times but the consistent, glaring issue is our starting QB can’t pass the ball. It’s great that he has other qualities but at the most important position we’re starting a player who can’t really do the main thing his position is on the field for, so don’t act like fans are football Neanderthals for harping on it.


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