wlduck wrote:
You've nicely captured things I've felt the same way about for years. There are so many coaches who have cashed 7 figure checks by being credited for the success of a good player(s). The fact that so many fail at their next stop would seem to indicate it has more to do with the player than the coach. Who will have made more off of the playing career of Jameis Winston, Jimbo Fisher or Winston?
I think you could argue Jimbo's perspective rather easily as he isn't the best one to single out imo.
-Jameis certainly hasn't been anything more than an average to below average starting NFL QB
Did he get drafted #1 because of himself or because of the Fisher offense and results of the team?
-Fisher absolutely gets credit for winning a NC and recruiting a complete team of players at FSU
-He's won a lot of recruiting battles while at AM so far.
I think there is a lot that goes into Coaching success/failure at one place vs another to simply put it all on the Players.
Did Chip make LMJ or LMJ make Chip? Neither succeeded in the NFL.
“I know that sounds crazy,” Dillingham said. “It doesn’t help that sounds arrogant but when I was 19 I believed I’d be the youngest offensive coordinator in the country and youngest head coach in the country.”
Hope he s smart and make the wise long term move and doesn't take the ASU job just so he can fulfill his ego and pride.
Duck07 wrote:Seems wiser to establish a rep at Oregon with continued success both Coaching and Recruiting and THEN going there after someone else wades through that mess.
Long before we were a Football School, we were a Coaching school. Our Player/Coach Coaching Tree is among the best there is and I earnestly wish him well in the future after a NC and Heisman can be added to his resume!
Agree^^^^
Uncle Phil is working with the UO to hook him up with a nice contract to stay at Oregon anyway. He could get paid well here for a couple more years and then see what coaching jobs are available after that.
wlduck wrote:
You've nicely captured things I've felt the same way about for years. There are so many coaches who have cashed 7 figure checks by being credited for the success of a good player(s). The fact that so many fail at their next stop would seem to indicate it has more to do with the player than the coach. Who will have made more off of the playing career of Jameis Winston, Jimbo Fisher or Winston?
I think you could argue Jimbo's perspective rather easily as he isn't the best one to single out imo.
-Jameis certainly hasn't been anything more than an average to below average starting NFL QB
Did he get drafted #1 because of himself or because of the Fisher offense and results of the team?
-Fisher absolutely gets credit for winning a NC and recruiting a complete team of players at FSU
-He's won a lot of recruiting battles while at AM so far.
I think there is a lot that goes into Coaching success/failure at one place vs another to simply put it all on the Players.
Did Chip make LMJ or LMJ make Chip? Neither succeeded in the NFL.
I did not and would not say it is only about players. 100% agree it's a cocktail that has different ingredients at different places and times. and yes, Chip is the perfect example. A very specific scheme at a time when no one knew how to deal with it produced wildly successful results. And then times changed.
I stand by my original post though. Coaches get the reflected credit of players, by the media and apparently by those making hiring decisions, without much examination of the complexities of each situation. And I believe that Jimbo is a poster child for that. Florida State had very little success post Winston, and was already a dumpster fire when A & M backed up the Brinks truck. But hey, he had a national title and was a QB whisperer, so it will work here.
wlduck wrote:
I stand by my original post though. Coaches get the reflected credit of players, by the media and apparently by those making hiring decisions, without much examination of the complexities of each situation. And I believe that Jimbo is a poster child for that. Florida State had very little success post Winston, and was already a dumpster fire when A & M backed up the Brinks truck. But hey, he had a national title and was a QB whisperer, so it will work here.
So what you're saying is that Dilly has absolutely nothing to do with Bo Nix's turnaround because its all on the players.
wlduck wrote:
I stand by my original post though. Coaches get the reflected credit of players, by the media and apparently by those making hiring decisions, without much examination of the complexities of each situation. And I believe that Jimbo is a poster child for that. Florida State had very little success post Winston, and was already a dumpster fire when A & M backed up the Brinks truck. But hey, he had a national title and was a QB whisperer, so it will work here.
So what you're saying is that Dilly has absolutely nothing to do with Bo Nix's turnaround because its all on the players.
Please reread my original response. I specifically said it’s not only players. But since you bring up Nix/Dillingham let’s put that in context of the original point. Nix absolutely has flourished in a system that uses his athleticism and really doesn’t require an NFL arm. Perfect match of coach, system and player. But what about Dillinghams time at Florida State? That didn’t go as well. All I’m saying is AD’s pay too much for limited periods of success.
wlduck wrote:
I stand by my original post though. Coaches get the reflected credit of players, by the media and apparently by those making hiring decisions, without much examination of the complexities of each situation. And I believe that Jimbo is a poster child for that. Florida State had very little success post Winston, and was already a dumpster fire when A & M backed up the Brinks truck. But hey, he had a national title and was a QB whisperer, so it will work here.
So what you're saying is that Dilly has absolutely nothing to do with Bo Nix's turnaround because its all on the players.
Please reread my original response. I specifically said it’s not only players. But since you bring up Nix/Dillingham let’s put that in context of the original point. Nix absolutely has flourished in a system that uses his athleticism and really doesn’t require an NFL arm. Perfect match of coach, system and player. But what about Dillinghams time at Florida State? That didn’t go as well. All I’m saying is AD’s pay too much for limited periods of success.
I think it’s hard to compare the situations, since Dillingham was given much less autonomy there, and as far as I’m aware, didn’t even call the plays. That said, nobody is a miracle worker, so there’s certainly a combination of getting players talented enough to run your system successfully and being a good play caller and developing that talent. If Thompson was starting this year, I don’t think Dillingham would be up for jobs right now.
wlduck wrote:
I stand by my original post though. Coaches get the reflected credit of players, by the media and apparently by those making hiring decisions, without much examination of the complexities of each situation. And I believe that Jimbo is a poster child for that. Florida State had very little success post Winston, and was already a dumpster fire when A & M backed up the Brinks truck. But hey, he had a national title and was a QB whisperer, so it will work here.
So what you're saying is that Dilly has absolutely nothing to do with Bo Nix's turnaround because its all on the players.
Please reread my original response. I specifically said it’s not only players. But since you bring up Nix/Dillingham let’s put that in context of the original point. Nix absolutely has flourished in a system that uses his athleticism and really doesn’t require an NFL arm. Perfect match of coach, system and player. But what about Dillinghams time at Florida State? That didn’t go as well. All I’m saying is AD’s pay too much for limited periods of success.
I think it’s hard to compare the situations, since Dillingham was given much less autonomy there, and as far as I’m aware, didn’t even call the plays. That said, nobody is a miracle worker, so there’s certainly a combination of getting players talented enough to run your system successfully and being a good play caller and developing that talent. If Thompson was starting this year, I don’t think Dillingham would be up for jobs right now.
You said what I was trying to say better than I did.
ASU fans seem to think that Dillingham is all theirs and should be announced soon but none of the big CFB coaching sources are reporting anything like this.
I would think ASU would be better off taking someone who's a proven recruiter, but desperate for a head coaching job. If he fails then ASU can at least have decent recruits and players in hand when sanctions are finished and they are ready to move on to a new head coach.
Any HC worth his own spit isn't gonna want that job so they have to look at coordinators. At that, any of the high level coordinators aren't gonna want that job for the same reason. I guess if they try it with Dillingham then they figure because he's got ASU ties they can get 4-5 years out of him to see them through these next few years that might be tough. And if he surprises and can coach then they made a great hire.
On his side, he can use the fact that they're a dumpster fire as an excuse if it doesn't turn out well and in the meantime make a few million a year.