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What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:52 am
by whosyourwally
Always hard watching a tourney without Oregon involved. And two years in a row after we’d grown accustomed to playing into the second weekend? That feels like a trend. What’s your assessment?

Two things I’ve been stuck on:

Our best teams played small. Has Altman ever been successful when giving a traditional center starter’s minutes? The last few years, it seems he’s tried to shift his offense to include a true 5, but we’ve seemed to play better when that 5 is out with an injury and/or coming off the bench. Wondering if Altman has been enamored with this type of recruit he now has access to at Oregon. He wasn’t brining in any 5* centers at Creighton….

We’ve lost a few assistants in recent years and really struck out on the transfers of late. Is it that his assistants were key in identifying the right transfers? Or were they the ones leading the magical mid-season transformations, helping Oregon always seem to turn the proverbial corner?

Or am I overthinking this and it’s just been two years of bad luck with injuries and poor shooting from guys that had lower ceilings than we’re used to?

Most importantly, with next year’s stellar recruiting class, should we expect Altman gets us back into the dance? And does he get another year here if he doesn’t?


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Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:14 am
by nogerO
Yes and Yes.

Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:58 am
by Alan
One and done players are what is wrong. The team does not come together as a team then it is a bunch of new guys and the process starts over. Maybe NIL will change that a little maybe not…. Cash grab

Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:05 pm
by Phalanx
I think Oregon has had the wrong point guard the last several years.

Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:12 pm
by whosyourwally
Phalanx wrote:I think Oregon has had the wrong point guard the last several years.
Agreed. But, in the past, when we lacked a dominant PG, we found a SF/PF we could run the offense through. Hoping Bittle’s that pin in the wheel next year.


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Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:54 am
by Duck07
Interesting that Covid and NIL aren't brought up in the discussion, as if its just easier to ignore the effect that has had during this time period.

Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:09 am
by StevensTechU
I think Altman's style of offense requires the ball in the hands of guards and forwards, and we've seen two years where the talent was clearly at the post, so you end up with a lot of dump-ins and zero flow of the offense. I think getting back to having one true center/big on the court at a time is probably the recipe for success for being a perennial tournament team, and how far they will go will depend on player quality.

Two years of seeing players that didn't match the offense, and the offense didn't cater to match those players. Since Altman seemingly isn't learning new tricks, going back to players that match his preferred style is a must.

Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:22 pm
by whosyourwally
Duck07 wrote:Interesting that Covid and NIL aren't brought up in the discussion, as if its just easier to ignore the effect that has had during this time period.
Feel free. I’m curious how COVID has had a comparatively adverse impact on Oregon’s Bball program. I don’t doubt it’s negatively impacted the program on multiple levels, but what makes the impact more notable with Oregon’s team than their P12 foes?

And regarding NIL, Ive thought its had a mostly positively impact on the overall talent on the roster. We’re bringing in elite players at a rate I can’t remember Oregon consistently doing prior to the last few years. But maybe it’s more nuanced than that?


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Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:29 pm
by whosyourwally
StevensTechU wrote:I think Altman's style of offense requires the ball in the hands of guards and forwards, and we've seen two years where the talent was clearly at the post, so you end up with a lot of dump-ins and zero flow of the offense. I think getting back to having one true center/big on the court at a time is probably the recipe for success for being a perennial tournament team, and how far they will go will depend on player quality.

Two years of seeing players that didn't match the offense, and the offense didn't cater to match those players. Since Altman seemingly isn't learning new tricks, going back to players that match his preferred style is a must.
We didn’t even have a center listed on the roster from 2015-2017 and those three seasons were bookended by Chandler Lawson and Bol Bol, both of which were long, lean, and semi-mobile, more stretch 4 than a 5.

I’d go as far as to say Altman doesn’t know how to deploy a true 5, and I’d love to see us go back to putting a Jordan Bell/Kenny Wooten in the middle.


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Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:36 pm
by droop10
whosyourwally wrote:
StevensTechU wrote:I think Altman's style of offense requires the ball in the hands of guards and forwards, and we've seen two years where the talent was clearly at the post, so you end up with a lot of dump-ins and zero flow of the offense. I think getting back to having one true center/big on the court at a time is probably the recipe for success for being a perennial tournament team, and how far they will go will depend on player quality.

Two years of seeing players that didn't match the offense, and the offense didn't cater to match those players. Since Altman seemingly isn't learning new tricks, going back to players that match his preferred style is a must.
We didn’t even have a center listed on the roster from 2015-2017 and those three seasons were bookended by Chandler Lawson and Bol Bol, both of which were long, lean, and semi-mobile, more stretch 4 than a 5.

I’d go as far as to say Altman doesn’t know how to deploy a true 5, and I’d love to see us go back to putting a Jordan Bell/Kenny Wooten in the middle.


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How does Dante differ than Bell and Wooten, other than body type and having actual post moves? He's plenty mobile in my opinion. It's not like Bell and Wooten were stretch 4s, they were undersized 5s. They weren't shooting 3s or taking the ball from the perimeter. The main difference is that Dante is more of an offensive focal point, because he is better offensively than either of those guys, and there are fewer consistent scorers on the perimeter.

Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:05 pm
by UOducksTK1
And also Ware/Bittle are also not your stereotypical strong, inside scoring big men. They are quick on their feet, and are good shooters. Their style of play is more like forwards.

The reality of the situation is simple. Our guard and forward play is the least talent group we’ve ever had under DA. This will change soon with recruiting (look at next class), and I’m confident DA will be better at what transfers he brings in.

What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:45 pm
by whosyourwally
UOducksTK1 wrote:And also Ware/Bittle are also not your stereotypical strong, inside scoring big men. They are quick on their feet, and are good shooters. Their style of play is more like forwards.

The reality of the situation is simple. Our guard and forward play is the least talent group we’ve ever had under DA. This will change soon with recruiting (look at next class), and I’m confident DA will be better at what transfers he brings in.
I love this discussion. TK, I think you were building on the previous post, so I’m responding here.

Agreed that we haven’t had the guard and SF talent we’re used to since Duerte graduated. I’m also wondering, though, if Altman hasn’t found a way to utilize the talent our current roster has. Like the previous poster highlighted, Dante gives us a legit post presence on offense, and Altman is willing to run plays for him. That, on the surface sounds like a good thing. But…

The spacing hasn’t worked. What made Altman’s offense unique for years was the high post pinwheel (think Dillon Brooks) that allowed for vertical cuts and low post screens. With a big on the block, the lane is clogged and our offense becomes reliant on perimeter screens and ISO down low. We’ve not had the shooters to do make that shift work. In the Wooten/Bell years, they were there explicitly for oops and slop. And they rarely camped out within their range. I totally understand why Altman wants to run 5v5 on offense, it just seems like we went way from what was working. Feels like Chip running a QB under center. More isn’t always better.

The previous poster asked what, beyond the plus offensive game, the difference is between Dante and Bell/Wooten. To me, a few things. Bell/Wooten, with incredible agility, made great use of narrow lanes and hang time to block/alter shots and snag boards. Dante plays a much more stationary post. He needs to start there to end there. On defense, that’s translated well, but on offense, we’ve seen fewer driving lanes for the guards, leading to too many contested 3’s. Bell/Wooten could start a play on the perimeter, keeping the lane open, and when a shot goes up, crash and pull down an offensive board. They could pick and roll with the best of them. They got bullied on occasion when we played teams with strong 7fters, but they just as often frustrated opposing bigs with great footwork and quick hands and could rotate across anyone on the perimeter. I just wonder if that feels too mid-major to Altman and he’s stubbornly moved away from what got him here.

In short, previously, Altman couldn’t play big without one and he’d showed a much better ability to scheme around size mismatches, utilizing lean, athletic bigs than he has to run a low post offense with a C on the block.


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Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:40 am
by Duck07
whosyourwally wrote:
Duck07 wrote:Interesting that Covid and NIL aren't brought up in the discussion, as if its just easier to ignore the effect that has had during this time period.
Feel free. I’m curious how COVID has had a comparatively adverse impact on Oregon’s Bball program. I don’t doubt it’s negatively impacted the program on multiple levels, but what makes the impact more notable with Oregon’s team than their P12 foes?

And regarding NIL, Ive thought its had a mostly positively impact on the overall talent on the roster. We’re bringing in elite players at a rate I can’t remember Oregon consistently doing prior to the last few years. But maybe it’s more nuanced than that?
Well we aren't here trying to explain Oregon Basketball in terms of their opponents, but part of the Covid problems were that everything was left to states and municipalities; some states had more restrictions on others. Kids left Oregon to play basketball in other states as just one side effect of the process. I see us finally coming out of all of this and each of our teams are starting to find their rhythm again as everything returns somewhat to normalcy.

I actually think it's been quite preposterous the levels of expectations placed on both teams by some fans online following everything that's happened since the shut-down. For me, this thread could also be about the WBB team too with the way people have been clamoring over the programs the last 3 years with all the negativity.

Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:56 am
by northbeachsf
Lack of depth, shooting ability, and injuries at the guard position are the main issue. I read recently that this group is responsible for the lowest three-point season shooting percentage in program history. That's something right there. We had some pretty bad teams in the late 80s and early 90s when I was in school. As Altman said in one of his press conferences, we have a lot of shot takers, but not a lot of shot makers.

I expect a complete overhaul at the guard position going into next season. We picked up a good shooter in transfer guard Jadrian Tracey yesterday. He shot 43% from three last season and 47%+ from the floor. Hopefully that translates over, but for sure a step in the right direction in improving our scoring ability from the guard position.

Re: What’s Wrong with Oregon Men’s Bball?

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:24 am
by StevensTechU
northbeachsf wrote:Lack of depth, shooting ability, and injuries at the guard position are the main issue. I read recently that this group is responsible for the lowest three-point season shooting percentage in program history. That's something right there. We had some pretty bad teams in the late 80s and early 90s when I was in school. As Altman said in one of his press conferences, we have a lot of shot takers, but not a lot of shot makers.

I expect a complete overhaul at the guard position going into next season. We picked up a good shooter in transfer guard Jadrian Tracey yesterday. He shot 43% from three last season and 47%+ from the floor. Hopefully that translates over, but for sure a step in the right direction in improving our scoring ability from the guard position.
Chicken and egg, a little bit. The lack of motion in the offense means guys are taking contested and rushed shots, and obviously not hitting shots is ruining spacing. There are a few guys on the roster that one would've projected better play out of (Soares, Williams) but in his offense are playing dreadful. So I don't think it's just "talent."