nba 2012-13

[pudgejeff]

Lebron blew up for a while in the 4th but he was melting down at the end. He is the most incredible athlete basketball has ever seen but I am convinced he just does not have the kind of players next to him that the all-time greats generally have. He will always be more talented than just about anyone ever, but there's also just something missing.

If there is one thing to remember, its that Bosh ain't no "big 3" and if Wade doesn't play as the 2nd best player, than its Lebron in Cleveland all over again. Pippen > Wade otherwise MJ doesn't win 6. Kobe always had a big time player in the post when he won his 5. Very rarely do we see teams win it all with 1 star player without having guys next to them that can help carry the load for stretches.

I don't buy this at all. Lebron's supporting cast is plenty adequate - Bosh is very good (not great, but neither was Rodman or whomever else), Wade can be a star, Chalmers is really good for a team's 4th best player, and everyone would like a Shane Battier on their team. The problem is that Lebron's not the type of player a team can be centered around. He's so talented that teams are centered around him, but no matter what the team's gonna look off because Lebron is just not the same as the all-time greats. The fact that people are making excuses for Lebron by blaming his supporting cast is lunacy. Doesn't anyone remember The Decision and everyone complaining bitterly that he had totally stacked the deck by joining an already-great team with two all-stars? It's the same team!

I really do think we're watching a historically unique player. He is the best athlete I have ever seen. He does not have the mentality someone in his position needs. He gets uncertain of himself and collapses time and time again, like at the end of the 4th last night. If you watched his body language you could see he was scared. I literally thought he might cry at one point.

Lebron is one of the most interesting athletes ever; I think that may be why the dominant narratives about him are mostly off (in my opinion). He's phenomenal, but he's not... something. I don't know the word. But he's not that. And that's what explains the combination of dominance and weakness that we see in him.

By the way, I like Lebron. He seems like a nice guy. I think he had the spotlight shown on him way early and I think something happened to his self-image and self-confidence. That's not his fault and I kinda feel for him. (Of course, a sports fan trying to explain a player's psyche is always a dubious proposition, but that's my intuition about him.)

Dwayne Wade is a shell of himself right now with his injured knee. Before he got hurt they were essentially unbeatable.

[oregontrack]

^ yup.

what is lebron, 28? i'll compare him to michael when he's good and retired and we can count championships and scoring averages and whatnot. i think he's the best SINCE MJ retired (the... second time?). you put a bunch of scrubs around kobe, the only other player really in the discussion, and you get a handful of first-round flame outs. you put a bunch of scrubs around lebron and you win 60+ games and make a few ECF (and a finals!).

// shrug. i think the lebron criticism is overstated. every bad game is magnified, every missed shot with under two minutes to play in the 4th Q/OT is blown up on the internet in a way, obviously, MJ never had to deal with. even if he isn't MJ -- and like i said, i'll pick that discussion up in about ten years -- he doesn't necessarily have to be to be one the all time greats. i'm pretty sure he's already the greatest 3 of all time, and he'll continue to ascend the overall list as the years go by.

[UofDuck]

I realize that comparing players is almost impossible because there are so many factors. But this is pretty telling; the year before Jordan retired the first time, the team went from 57-25 with him, to 55-27 without him and Pipen won the MVP. LeBron with the Cavs; they were a 61 win team with him and the following year won 19 games without him. The point is, LeBron does carry his team. This whole making him so much less than Micheal because his mental make-up, does not hold up well when you dig deeper and seems to be a product of some revisionist history propaganda about how unreal Micheal really was. Both are amazing players that are amazing to watch and I would put them as 1 an 1A, but Micheal's glory has grown so much over the years that it places him in a god like light.

[oregontrack]

indeed. and like i said, people just seem to harp on lebron's miscues more than MJ ever had to deal with. i mean geez, the dude had a triple double on tuesday. hell, he had 14 points, 4 boards, 2 assists, a steal, and that monstrous tim duncan block in the last 9 minutes of the game + OT (against a spurs team that was keying entirely on him, with duncan negating bosh and wade not able to do anything), including the trey that set up ray allen's game-tying one a few seconds later in regulation, in addition to the go-ahead leaner in OT. lebron was godlike in game six, and yet i've heard as much criticism as i have praise. it's weird.

fwiw, just for fun: in 12 career do-or-die elimination games, he's averaging 32/10/7.

[Duck24]

So much for LeBron not having "it" when it comes to late game shots.

[OregonFan4Life]

Man, what a heartbreaking loss. I can't underestimate how much this hurts. I thought SA had it in game 6. Congrats to Miami though. This hurts about as much as the national championship loss to Auburn. I sure hope Tim Duncan comes back next year though. He's a legend, and I love the guy! I chose to make him my role model at the age of 7, I just don't want to see him go yet!

[thomas time]

Soooooooo ECITED!!!! If Lebron is going to be such a great jump shooter, he led the nba in fg% on jump shots during the season, then he is even more unstoppable. Thank you Lebroooooooon!!!!!!!!

[Duck07]

So much for LeBron not having "it" when it comes to late game shots.

Whatever "it" is, clearly he doesn't have it.

[UOducksTK1]

meh, grats to the Heat.

[oregontrack]

alright kids, let's argue like men on the internet.

i say last night's game 7 had two members of the All Time NBA Team on it:

magic
jordan
lebron
duncan
wilt

i will accept bird over lebron for those who have not yet realized the truth, and i will accept your favorite center of choice over wilt insomuch that he is either russell, kareem, or shaq. any other substitutions and we'll have words.

what say you?

[UofDuck]

Only one big man as a starter, and it's Wilt (maybe Russell). Bird replaces Duncan for me. And don't get me wrong. Tim is a stud. But I don't put him quite on the same level as the others - close though. I might go Russell for Wilt too. That's my NBA Mt Rushmore

Wilt/Russell
Magic
Bird
Jordan
LeBron

[oregontrack]

i was going by primary position, fwiw. i think bird would probably make my mount rushmore over duncan too, but bird being a primary 3 i categorized him accordingly.

[Duck07]

alright kids, let's argue like men on the internet.

i say last night's game 7 had two members of the All Time NBA Team on it:

magic
jordan
lebron
duncan
wilt

i will accept bird over lebron for those who have not yet realized the truth, and i will accept your favorite center of choice over wilt insomuch that he is either russell, kareem, or shaq. any other substitutions and we'll have words.

what say you?

[Boom]

Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Hakeem Olajuwon

[Phenom]

Quit ranking Magic above Jordan...and this from someone who can't stand MJ.