Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

[buckmarkduck]

I will say (as the designated "Lillard Defender" here) that Woj was intereviewed on ESPN yesterday and talked about how Goodwin is telling other NBA teams that Dame won't be happy unless traded to Miami... he said the general sense among GMs is that they don't really believe that would amount to anything actionable and that Dame would play (and be all-in) wherever he ends up. Woj said these things happen all the time and that GMs know too much about Dame as a person to take these threats seriously. And perhaps that's why the rhetoric from Goodwin seems to be intensifying, because he knows he has to work extra hard to try to sell this narrative that Dame will go full-on James Harden if he doesn't get his way.

The non-emotional part of me agrees with all of that and thinks this is probably only a huge deal because that narrative goes so counter to everything we've ever known about Dame.

I still think Dame is being an idiot right now, either by his own actions or by taking terrible advice. I kind of hope he gets traded someplace else just so we can see whether he follows through with these threats.


Also, Stotts was cool, but nah. Running your starters into the ground while minimizing time for developing depth is great for the regular season but a proven disaster for the playoffs.

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/statu ... 88259?s=20

[pezsez1]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/statu ... 88259?s=20

I saw that, and that's actually what I was referring to when I talked about Goodwin revving up his rhetoric. I honestly don't believe for a second that Dame would sit out. This whole thing is happening because he wants to spend his last few prime years competing, so to be traded to a team that's competitve (especially one with a shot at contending) and then sitting just isn't believable. That's pretty much what Woj was saying, too, that no GMs are really buying that Dame would refuse to play.

I don't see him playing for Portland again, though. I mean, at this point, that would be counterproductive for us as well. He wants out, and we have a young PG to develop. If this drags on he'll either hold out or get DNPs. If this drags on beyond the midseason trade deadline, then that's a bit tougher to predict. I have a hard time though not seeing a contender begging for his services at that point and Dame not wanting to waste a shot at winning a title.

[buckmarkduck]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/statu ... 88259?s=20

I saw that, and that's actually what I was referring to when I talked about Goodwin revving up his rhetoric. I honestly don't believe for a second that Dame would sit out. This whole thing is happening because he wants to spend his last few prime years competing, so to be traded to a team that's competitve (especially one with a shot at contending) and then sitting just isn't believable. That's pretty much what Woj was saying, too, that no GMs are really buying that Dame would refuse to play.

I don't see him playing for Portland again, though. I mean, at this point, that would be counterproductive for us as well. He wants out, and we have a young PG to develop. If this drags on he'll either hold out or get DNPs. If this drags on beyond the midseason trade deadline, then that's a bit tougher to predict. I have a hard time though not seeing a contender begging for his services at that point and Dame not wanting to waste a shot at winning a title.

That’s not the same quote. This one is from someone inside dames camp, saying he doesn’t believe Dame will even shot up if he goes anywhere besides Miami. It had nothing to do with his agent.

[pezsez1]

That is the same thing I was referring to, and it just says "a person familiar with Dame's thinking." That could easily be his agent not wanting to go on the record with an elevated threat.

Or, maybe sitting on street clothes on someone's bench is the new grind?

Aaron Fentress said on the radio today he's also talked to people in Dame's camp who say Dame is still anguishing over being in this position and that he still doesn't actually want to leave Portland. Lots of conflicting & anonymous he said/he saids going on. I think the most easily deduced theme though is that Goodwin is running around doing his best to build a narrative that Dame will only play in Miami and nowhere else -- which really doesn't make logical sense.

If Dame gets traded to Boston, Phili, or Brooklyn, with stars and strong rosters and a clear path through the playoffs, then he'll play. Zero doubts about it.

That makes all of this posturing and narrative-buiding even more ridiculous because it's so clearly BS.

[Phalanx]

'Reports' coming out that the Blazers want the moon for Lillard now. Two players and four first round picks. That's just nutty. Maybe if he was on a decent contract, Cronin could demand these things, but the stupid deal he originated is likely what is preventing teams from offering anything like full value. Whoever takes on that time bomb is going to wish they hadn't in a couple of years. I understand that Cronin probably feels disrespected by the lowball offers as well as the media pressure, but hopefully he doesn't lose sight of the goal here: you have to dump that contract.

[pezsez1]

That's not an unreasonable ask for a HOF point guard with 2-3 years left on his prime. The last couple years of his contract are massive, but for a team like the Heat acquiring him could be the difference between winning or not winning an NBA title. If you're a real contender, you take that chance every time.

Also, I think the wording is important: Two "quality" players, not necessarily starters. I take that as probably meaning younger players with extremely high upside.

More than anything I think this is simply Cronin putting our side of things out into the public dialogue. Instead of simply talking about how crappy Miami's offer is, now people can question why Miami can't make it happen with just a little bit of effort.

Gotta do more than simply dump Dame's contract. We need to get some kind of return on his immense value. Doing so could accelerate our rebuild by years and potentially give it a much better outcome. Nobody should expect a Gobert-level return, but this is one of the biggest moments in offseason history and we should be praying that Cronin doesn't completely **** it up. I can't say I'm super confident but I'm hoping to be surprised.

Also, Scoot looked good! Surprised nobody said that. He still needs a reliable jumper -- won't take us far without one -- but he's clearly a hard worker and he's got time to dial that in. Not ready to anoint him a "generational talent" just yet but he'll definitely be fun to watch.

[Phalanx]

Real contenders would stay far away from Lillard. That contract will be debilitating to a team very soon, and Lillard is 33, so his prime is in the rear-view mirror. I hope that the Blazers get an amazing deal, but more than that, I just want them to get out of that contract and get on with the new generation. Lillard and his drama have held the Blazers hostage long enough. For years, he has demanded that the team trade away draft picks, hold on to his buddy McCollum, hire his terrible choice for coach, and sign him to ultra max after ultra max deal, all while never winning anything, and whining in the media about the team's lack of support. His 11 years with the team are arguably the worst 11-year stretch in team history, and a once-proud franchise is currently the butt of NBA jokes. I can't wait to see the back of him. Free the Blazers now!

[pezsez1]

Lillard gives the Heat a reliable scorer in crunch time and someone who can provide unmatched space for Butler and Bam down low. He's massively efficient. Would absolutely take the Heat from being a play-in Cindarella to being a true top contender in the East. Butler isn't getting any younger and now is the time to strike with a HOF talent like Dame.

If you're a real contender in Miami's position you take that chance every time. You don't win by pussyfooting around the margins. Blazer fans need to have learned this lesson already.

[bellsduck]

They absolutely should be asking for 4 1sts for Dame. Ask low and there's no room for going lower. Plus the likelihood that any of those picks from a contending team being great is remote. Plus there are likely other things the Blazers would add to he deal if a trade partner came close to this request.

[Phalanx]

Good to see somebody has some sense about this:

https://www.theringer.com/bill-simmons/ ... ley-morris

I’m gonna be the old guy for a second. There’s been a lot of stuff about Damian Lillard being the greatest Blazer of all time. I’ve seen it in multiple places. I’ve heard people say it on TV that I thought follow basketball. I’ve seen it in print. It seems to be the general consensus he’s the best Blazer ever. He’s the third best Blazer ever.”

“This is where I become the old guy. What the [expletive]? Clyde Drexler. Were any of you there for that? Clyde Drexler was awesome. I have Clyde Drexler right now on my pyramid as 52 and I have Dame in the low 70s. Clyde was the MVP runner-up in ‘92 to Jordan. I think [Lillard] was fourth once. Clyde made two Finals in 1990 and ‘92 during I think the single most competitive time in the history of the league: 1990 to 1993. Clyde and the Blazers beat the Lakers, they dethroned the Lakers. Only two teams did that in the entire ‘80s in the West: the ‘86 Rockets who were a complete fluke with [Ralph] Sampson and Hakeem [Olajuwon], and then the ‘90 Blazers. Clyde was basically 25 [points], seven [rebounds] and seven [assists] for it felt like eight [or] nine years. ... He was the second-best guard of [Michael] Jordan’s entire generation. He made the All-NBA Team — First Team once, Second-Team twice, Third Team three times.”

“The Point is, we have to stop acting like basketball started when LeBron [James] or Kobe [Bryant] came into the league. You can’t say Dame is the best Portland Trail Blazer ever when Drexler was on the Portland Trail Blazers. Dame has never won a game in the conference finals, so he made the conference finals once, they got swept. His career just wasn’t as good as Clyde’s so far, and he’s actually played less years than Clyde did in Portland. He had the two walk-off playoff series winning shots, he’s one of the best 3-point shooters of all time. They’ve had some bad luck on the team from a roster standpoint, and I’m not dinging Dame on that, but when people start throwing ‘greatest’ around just do some research. Clyde Drexler was awesome. ... We always talk about ‘legacy, legacy, legacy.’ Drexler’s legacy was really good, and we’re talking about it incorrectly, so maybe legacy doesn’t matter as much as we thought.”

Of course, I do ding Lillard for the bad teams, because his contract was always a serious impediment to filling out a team, and because of all the demands he made to trade assets away for temp players. He had a direct effect on the quality of the team around him in a negative way.

[bellsduck]

Good to see somebody has some sense about this:

https://www.theringer.com/bill-simmons/ ... ley-morris

I’m gonna be the old guy for a second. There’s been a lot of stuff about Damian Lillard being the greatest Blazer of all time. I’ve seen it in multiple places. I’ve heard people say it on TV that I thought follow basketball. I’ve seen it in print. It seems to be the general consensus he’s the best Blazer ever. He’s the third best Blazer ever.”

“This is where I become the old guy. What the [expletive]? Clyde Drexler. Were any of you there for that? Clyde Drexler was awesome. I have Clyde Drexler right now on my pyramid as 52 and I have Dame in the low 70s. Clyde was the MVP runner-up in ‘92 to Jordan. I think [Lillard] was fourth once. Clyde made two Finals in 1990 and ‘92 during I think the single most competitive time in the history of the league: 1990 to 1993. Clyde and the Blazers beat the Lakers, they dethroned the Lakers. Only two teams did that in the entire ‘80s in the West: the ‘86 Rockets who were a complete fluke with [Ralph] Sampson and Hakeem [Olajuwon], and then the ‘90 Blazers. Clyde was basically 25 [points], seven [rebounds] and seven [assists] for it felt like eight [or] nine years. ... He was the second-best guard of [Michael] Jordan’s entire generation. He made the All-NBA Team — First Team once, Second-Team twice, Third Team three times.”

“The Point is, we have to stop acting like basketball started when LeBron [James] or Kobe [Bryant] came into the league. You can’t say Dame is the best Portland Trail Blazer ever when Drexler was on the Portland Trail Blazers. Dame has never won a game in the conference finals, so he made the conference finals once, they got swept. His career just wasn’t as good as Clyde’s so far, and he’s actually played less years than Clyde did in Portland. He had the two walk-off playoff series winning shots, he’s one of the best 3-point shooters of all time. They’ve had some bad luck on the team from a roster standpoint, and I’m not dinging Dame on that, but when people start throwing ‘greatest’ around just do some research. Clyde Drexler was awesome. ... We always talk about ‘legacy, legacy, legacy.’ Drexler’s legacy was really good, and we’re talking about it incorrectly, so maybe legacy doesn’t matter as much as we thought.”

Of course, I do ding Lillard for the bad teams, because his contract was always a serious impediment to filling out a team, and because of all the demands he made to trade assets away for temp players. He had a direct effect on the quality of the team around him in a negative way.

100% agree with all of this.

[buckmarkduck]

Kobe rip, wasn’t even the best player during his prime. That honor belonged to Duncan. But he played in a small market, and never self promoted.

[alxtw]

Good to see somebody has some sense about this:

https://www.theringer.com/bill-simmons/ ... ley-morris

I’m gonna be the old guy for a second. There’s been a lot of stuff about Damian Lillard being the greatest Blazer of all time. I’ve seen it in multiple places. I’ve heard people say it on TV that I thought follow basketball. I’ve seen it in print. It seems to be the general consensus he’s the best Blazer ever. He’s the third best Blazer ever.”

“This is where I become the old guy. What the [expletive]? Clyde Drexler. Were any of you there for that? Clyde Drexler was awesome. I have Clyde Drexler right now on my pyramid as 52 and I have Dame in the low 70s. Clyde was the MVP runner-up in ‘92 to Jordan. I think [Lillard] was fourth once. Clyde made two Finals in 1990 and ‘92 during I think the single most competitive time in the history of the league: 1990 to 1993. Clyde and the Blazers beat the Lakers, they dethroned the Lakers. Only two teams did that in the entire ‘80s in the West: the ‘86 Rockets who were a complete fluke with [Ralph] Sampson and Hakeem [Olajuwon], and then the ‘90 Blazers. Clyde was basically 25 [points], seven [rebounds] and seven [assists] for it felt like eight [or] nine years. ... He was the second-best guard of [Michael] Jordan’s entire generation. He made the All-NBA Team — First Team once, Second-Team twice, Third Team three times.”

“The Point is, we have to stop acting like basketball started when LeBron [James] or Kobe [Bryant] came into the league. You can’t say Dame is the best Portland Trail Blazer ever when Drexler was on the Portland Trail Blazers. Dame has never won a game in the conference finals, so he made the conference finals once, they got swept. His career just wasn’t as good as Clyde’s so far, and he’s actually played less years than Clyde did in Portland. He had the two walk-off playoff series winning shots, he’s one of the best 3-point shooters of all time. They’ve had some bad luck on the team from a roster standpoint, and I’m not dinging Dame on that, but when people start throwing ‘greatest’ around just do some research. Clyde Drexler was awesome. ... We always talk about ‘legacy, legacy, legacy.’ Drexler’s legacy was really good, and we’re talking about it incorrectly, so maybe legacy doesn’t matter as much as we thought.”

Of course, I do ding Lillard for the bad teams, because his contract was always a serious impediment to filling out a team, and because of all the demands he made to trade assets away for temp players. He had a direct effect on the quality of the team around him in a negative way.

Dame’s contract was only an impediment because blazers front office is u willing to pay the team salary and tax of a contender. If gsw or lal had our salary limit, then steph and supersatrs contracts would also be a big problem and deemed a bad contract. Top 10 players in the league are always going to command top dollar contracts.

[Phalanx]

People have such short memories. The last few years, the Blazers have been trying to stay under the tax, but historically, they are one of the top tax-paying teams. They've been in the luxury tax 6 times in the last 22 years (three times during Lillard's career), which puts them 8th in the NBA in payments, as of last year.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markdeeks/ ... c3aac7432f

The Blazers have been paying Lillard and others as if they were contenders, but they never were. Kinda seems like ownership figured that part out and stopped paying the tax on an underachieving team.

[greenyellow]

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