WOW

[nogerO]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ ... bddc&ei=13

Of course they judge shopped this to Denver, Colorado.

[Duck07]

Kendra Spade, former Oregon golfer, is an Intersex person and was allowed to play women's golf but wasn't able to go into the LPGA due to increased hormone levels. There's nuance to this and far more important issues in our society.

[nogerO]

Kendra Spade, former Oregon golfer, is an Intersex person and was allowed to play women's golf but wasn't able to go into the LPGA due to increased hormone levels. There's nuance to this and far more important issues in our society.

Personally what someone wants to identify as is up to them, but men playing in any women's sport that could result in physical contact is absolutely a hard NO! Golfing is probably the ONE sport I could probably be ok with as long as the trans person is teeing off from the mens tees.

[pudgejeff]

All things about this specifically aside, how awkward must that team be with a captain and assistant coach part of the lawsuit. How do you even go forward as a team after that.

[Duck07]

Kendra Spade, former Oregon golfer, is an Intersex person and was allowed to play women's golf but wasn't able to go into the LPGA due to increased hormone levels. There's nuance to this and far more important issues in our society.

Personally what someone wants to identify as is up to them, but men playing in any women's sport that could result in physical contact is absolutely a hard NO! Golfing is probably the ONE sport I could probably be ok with as long as the trans person is teeing off from the mens tees.

Trans is not Intersex, so how do you define a person born with a vagina that has male chromosomes? It's okay to be unfamiliar with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, but it's a non insignificant number of people who have it and who shouldn't be given such animosity for having been born different.

[Alan]

for me it is as simple as if you are born with a penis you do not belong in female sports or ladies locker rooms or bathrooms.

[StevensTechU]

for me it is as simple as if you are born with a penis you do not belong in female sports or ladies locker rooms or bathrooms.

I was listening to a retired Wyoming biologist recall that over his four decades with the wildlife service, he came across elk with antlers and vaginas three different times. Not a ton, but with tens of thousands of elk in the state, it happened on occasion. Since the regulations called for "bull (male) elk with 3+ points on its antlers" he had to weigh in on the legality of them being harvested.

Biology is complicated and when you have millions of people, you're going to see things that lie outside the norm. Most human thing to do is to get to understand the circumstances before weighing in on a situation.

[Everythingsducky]

for me it is as simple as if you are born with a penis you do not belong in female sports or ladies locker rooms or bathrooms.

Agreed. And on the flip side, until we see a person born with a vagina, identifying as man, competing in and against genetic men in sports, then we can have a conversation. At this point, it is completely one-sided against women.

[Everythingsducky]

for me it is as simple as if you are born with a penis you do not belong in female sports or ladies locker rooms or bathrooms.

I was listening to a retired Wyoming biologist recall that over his four decades with the wildlife service, he came across elk with antlers and vaginas three different times. Not a ton, but with tens of thousands of elk in the state, it happened on occasion. Since the regulations called for "bull (male) elk with 3+ points on its antlers" he had to weigh in on the legality of them being harvested.

Biology is complicated and when you have millions of people, you're going to see things that lie outside the norm. Most human thing to do is to get to understand the circumstances before weighing in on a situation.

They are called hermaphrodites. But it is most normal in slugs, snails and barnacles. Far cry from what actually occurs in human society. Ever seen a question mark entered by a doctor on a newborns birth certificate? Not intending to brawl, and there are outliers in many situations. Genetic codes are what they are.

[StevensTechU]

[ Far cry from what actually occurs in human society. Ever seen a question mark entered by a doctor on a newborns birth certificate?

I don't think doctors looking at newborns wait to see if they grow antlers.

[Everythingsducky]

[ Far cry from what actually occurs in human society. Ever seen a question mark entered by a doctor on a newborns birth certificate?

I don't think doctors looking at newborns wait to see if they grow antlers.

State of mind isn’t an issue. You don’t grow testosterone at birth as a genetic female. I will agree to disagree.

[StevensTechU]

So in this thread and elsewhere, people point to a handful of things as what defines a man or woman, with some people saying one alone is the end-all, be-all.

- chromosomes
- genetalia
- hormonal balance (testosterone, estrogen, or otherwise)
- physical appearance
- gender identity
- sexual identity

I can't explain to you what was happening with those elk, so I sure as heck can't explain what's happening in humans with any kind of intelligent thought. All I can do is note, as I did in my previous post, that most of the time those bullets are all consistent with one another, but most occasions isn't all occasions. In the remainder, you can get all kinds of combinations, such as as Duck07 noting a recent-ish UofO golfer has male/XY chromosomes but female genetalia. So like anything complex, I generally say I need to know about the specific circumstances before I become willing to make judgments about someone else's life.

[pezsez1]

She played the previous two years, nobody cared, and San Jose State had a mid record. The Mountain West has a trans athlete policy which she apparently follows (which means suppressing testosterone).

Every "story" like this makes me feel terrible for trans people.

[TheDrake]

It only came up because of the election!