Florida resident indicted by NY DA

[StevensTechU]

Why on earth would someone have to have government experience to gather data? I'm guessing that you have interviewed everyone involved and gauged their qualifications.

Based on your previous statement about a "Nazi Salute" I guess that the Canadian Government is run by a bunch of Nazi's, after all, they held a special session to honor an actual Nazi soldier who fought against the Russians in WWII.

My earlier post really bothered you. Recall I asked you to refute any of it with citations, so I'll just reiterate it again.

I don't live in Canada.

"Gathering data" isn't what someone looking for fraud and abuse does. I don't know what your professional background is so I'm going to over-explain. A programmer/engineer writes code, they build systems and tech products, requiring them to use data. A data analyst is what it sounds like - someone who analyses data, looking for anomalies, finding ways to ensure accuracy and making it usable and digestible. An accountant tells you where your money is going.

Pro Publica has profiles of 30+ members of the DOGE team, and yes, I did look over them over. Feel free to read them as well: https://projects.propublica.org/elon-musk-doge-tracker/

What I said in my previous post and I'll emphasize again is they have no accountants. They also have no data analysts. They only have programmers. They don't have the right people to do the job (looking for fraud and abuse) that they say they're doing.

To beat a dead horse- When a company acquires another company, they don't send a team of programmers in to make sure that the books aren't cooked. They send in a team of accountants ("transaction services"). Similarly, an audit (where investors want to make sure they aren't getting f'd) is... accountants again, not programmers.

As far as government experience mattering - large companies have complicated systems, and the government's systems make large companies look like startups. If you have neither a comprehension of government (who provides what service and to who and for what reason and why do they not do something else and what can't be shared and why and what laws and regulations should I be aware of and...and...and...) nor comprehension of the troves of data in different systems, anything you find in the short term is almost certainly just misinterpretation of the data. Even a system less complex takes months or a year+ to master.

[Phalanx]

The phrase is 'waste, fraud, and abuse'. Interesting that you keep cutting out the waste part, almost as if you concede it. I think your point about lack of forensic accountants would resonate more if they were looking for garbage bills that got double-paid, but what they mostly seem to be finding are bad contracts, grants and leases. I noticed that among the 25-year-old programmers on the reported DOGE team there were also quite an assortment of lawyers, financiers, and those familiar with HR, accounting software, and real estate contracts. A number of them also seem to have government experience, so perhaps that will allay your fears, which I am sure were genuine and not politically driven, despite the inane comments about Nazi salutes.

https://www.newsweek.com/doge-list-staf ... ed-2029965

It should also be pointed out that besides looking for previously undiscovered waste, fraud, and abuse, they are also operating from a compiled list of things given to them by various contributors. Rand Paul, for instance, recites a list of wasteful government expenditures every year that he associates with a Festivus list of grievances. So in those cases, the contracts and expenditures just need to be investigated.

[Duck07]

Embedded Tweet

To be clear, what the @DOGE team and @USTreasury have jointly agreed makes sense is the following:

- Require that all outgoing government payments have a payment categorization code, which is necessary in order to pass financial audits. This is frequently left blank, making audits almost impossible.

- All payments must also include a rationale for the payment in the comment field, which is currently left blank. Importantly, we are not yet applying ANY judgment to this rationale, but simply requiring that SOME attempt be made to explain the payment more than NOTHING!

- The DO-NOT-PAY list of entities known to be fraudulent or people who are dead or are probable fronts for terrorist organizations or do not match Congressional appropriations must actually be implemented and not ignored. Also, it can currently take up to a year to get on this list, which is far too long. This list should be updated at least weekly, if not daily.

The above super obvious and necessary changes are being implemented by existing, long-time career government employees, not anyone from @DOGE
. It is ridiculous that these changes didn’t exist already!

Yesterday, I was told that there are currently over $100B/year of entitlements payments to individuals with no SSN or even a temporary ID number. If accurate, this is extremely suspicious.

When I asked if anyone at Treasury had a rough guess for what percentage of that number is unequivocal and obvious fraud, the consensus in the room was about half, so $50B/year or $1B/week!!

This is utterly insane and must be addressed immediately.

[StevensTechU]

^ Saying something and adding exclamation points doesn't make it true. Again, there has been no verified fraud so far, only things that they don't like ideologically and have called it fraud, which is unsurprising given the makeup of the team.

For reference, last year the GAO (Government Accountability Office) identified up to $200B in potential savings. Real people with real expertise we're doing this job already. https://www.meritalk.com/articles/gao-a ... -benefits/

[Duck07]

^ Saying something and adding exclamation points doesn't make it true. Again, there has been no verified fraud so far, only things that they don't like ideologically and have called it fraud, which is unsurprising given the makeup of the team.

For reference, last year the GAO (Government Accountability Office) identified up to $200B in potential savings. Real people with real expertise we're doing this job already. https://www.meritalk.com/articles/gao-a ... -benefits/

and when you get into the actual report that it cites, it claims that at most, it could save around ~11Billion a year at most and maybe only half of that and also includes this wonderful nugget:

* = Legislation is likely to be necessary to fully address all matters or recommendations in this topic area.

At 11 Billion in savings a year our National Debt will get paid off...never.

We spent almost 1 Trillion last year on "Defense" but there's certainly nothing fraudulent going on there or at the State Dept, nope, just ideological differences between NeoCon Warmongers and the US public who has had enough. The Iraq/Afghanistan wars cost about 3 Trillion over 20 years and The Federal Reserve gave out more than 3 Trillion to the banks during Covid so when the US Treasury says it will change how payments go out, I think its more than just adding an exclamation point and it also seems to directly point to your concerns about the accounting side of things being changed.

[StevensTechU]

^ Saying something and adding exclamation points doesn't make it true. Again, there has been no verified fraud so far, only things that they don't like ideologically and have called it fraud, which is unsurprising given the makeup of the team.

For reference, last year the GAO (Government Accountability Office) identified up to $200B in potential savings. Real people with real expertise we're doing this job already. https://www.meritalk.com/articles/gao-a ... -benefits/

and when you get into the actual report that it cites, it claims that at most, it could save around ~11Billion a year at most and maybe only half of that and also includes this wonderful nugget:

* = Legislation is likely to be necessary to fully address all matters or recommendations in this topic area.

At 11 Billion in savings a year our National Debt will get paid off...never.

We spent almost 1 Trillion last year on "Defense" but there's certainly nothing fraudulent going on there or at the State Dept, nope, just ideological differences between NeoCon Warmongers and the US public who has had enough. The Iraq/Afghanistan wars cost about 3 Trillion over 20 years and The Federal Reserve gave out more than 3 Trillion to the banks during Covid so when the US Treasury says it will change how payments go out, I think its more than just adding an exclamation point and it also seems to directly point to your concerns about the accounting side of things being changed.

You're aware that adding a reason code changes none of this, right?

[Duck07]

You're aware that adding a reason code changes none of this, right?

Doing nothing is better?

It's progress towards tracking payments in a system where there are notable stories involving people sending in false invoices to the DoD who kept paying it off and in one example only caught it because they sent the same invoice twice. Or the even worse example:

[dd10snoop28]

This debate isn't going much of anywhere. The bloat and unaccountability of the bureaucracy federal government is unfathomable. The fact that this is being turned into a political issue is laughable. Anybody who makes an effort to bring more transparency to government spending is doing the first step in fixing the greatest threat to America's position in the world....which is the devaluation of the dollar and replacement in the world economy. Thinking that professional accountants and IG's are going make any sort of meaningful dent in solving the problem of government spending and unaccountable bureaucracy is also laughable. Been there, done that. Never resulted in anything remotely productive.

The GAO performs an audit of the federal government every year. On their report, they disclose that they were unable to gain any assurance on over 50% of federal spending. How do you like that? The professional auditors said that over 50% of the government is unauditable, essentially.

STU is obviously not open to information that contradicts his views, as evidenced by his blocking of the main posters in this thread.

More interesting is what is going in Europe. JD Vance's speech was a monumental moment in US/European relations.

[Phalanx]

^ Saying something and adding exclamation points doesn't make it true. Again, there has been no verified fraud so far, only things that they don't like ideologically and have called it fraud, which is unsurprising given the makeup of the team.

For reference, last year the GAO (Government Accountability Office) identified up to $200B in potential savings. Real people with real expertise we're doing this job already. https://www.meritalk.com/articles/gao-a ... -benefits/

I am a bit confused now. We already know from various articles and statements that Musk and his team are working with existing departments as they search for waste, fraud, and abuse. The criticism has been leveled here that he didn't have any accountants or data analysts on his team, but now, you seem to be saying there are already 'real people' doing this job sufficiently. So what were you criticizing again? Or maybe you were just copy/pasting from HuffPo?

Anyway, I agree dd10, feel free to un-hi-jack your thread for more interesting topics. My favorite right now is Canada/U.S. relations. Trolling Trudeau is one thing, but I'm not a fan of the '51st State' talk. If the goal is to oust Trudeau, I think Trump might be overplaying it a bit and allowing the next liberal room to get in over Poilievre. I view Canadians as cousins - in my case that is a literal reality, and I don't like the idea of alienating that population needlessly.

[StevensTechU]

Checking in with the news today:

- The most senior intelligence, defense, and administrative officials in the country aside from the President himself used a commercial texting app which is against government policy, likely in order to avoid transparency and federal archiving regulations, and accidentally added a journalist to a conversation that detailed plans to drop bombs on a foreign country
> They referenced other 'small chats,' indicating this is normal for them, despite it being against policy
> They're strategy since it's come to light has gone from lying about its existence, to saying they don't remember, to saying well its not bad or that it's the journalist's fault
- The subject of the leak was an attack that killed 2 little kids and hospitalized 2 others
- One of he DOGE staffers, who calls himself "Big Balls," has been linked to cybercrime gangs and touted that he stalked an FBI agent (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/doge-s ... 025-03-26/)
- An independent analysis has estimated that the defunding of USAID will lead to 176,000 deaths of adults and children in 2025, or about 103 per hour, due to starvation and lack of medical attention (https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/20 ... ding-cuts/)
- The Trump Administration continues to weaponize the government by targeting law firms that do work for their political opponents (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-si ... 49575.html)
- Separately, Republican leaders have floated the idea of limiting the power of the Courts in response to receiving unfavorable verdicts (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... rcna197986)
- The stock market is now down 9% from its peak as tariffs have kicked in

It's a lot to keep up with. I did see that 7 in 10 independents are already at the point of saying they 'disapprove' of the President, which is quite early in a new term to be that low. Usually there's some goodwill to start.

[nogerO]

“Take a little different spin at the number,” CNN data guru Harry Enten said Tuesday. “All we talk about is how unpopular Donald Trump is, but in reality he is basically more popular than he was at any point in term number one and more popular than he was when he won the election back in 2024.”

Enten displayed a graphic that showed that Trump’s net approval rating in March 20017 was -10 points and that it was -7 points in November. So, he has made gains to get to -4 points in March.

“So, when you compare Trump to where he is against himself, he is actually closer to the apex than he is to the bottom of the trough,” Enten said. “And, of course, that is so important because Donald Trump, historically speaking, has had his numbers underestimated. So, I think it’s very important to compare him to himself to understand he is actually more popular now than he was when he won or certainly where he was back during his first term.

I guess it depends on which source you get your "news" from. The fake news or a more balanced source.

[nogerO]

“Take a little different spin at the number,” CNN data guru Harry Enten said Tuesday. “All we talk about is how unpopular Donald Trump is, but in reality he is basically more popular than he was at any point in term number one and more popular than he was when he won the election back in 2024.”

Enten displayed a graphic that showed that Trump’s net approval rating in March 20017 was -10 points and that it was -7 points in November. So, he has made gains to get to -4 points in March.

“So, when you compare Trump to where he is against himself, he is actually closer to the apex than he is to the bottom of the trough,” Enten said. “And, of course, that is so important because Donald Trump, historically speaking, has had his numbers underestimated. So, I think it’s very important to compare him to himself to understand he is actually more popular now than he was when he won or certainly where he was back during his first term. This was from CNN!

[nogerO]

This debate isn't going much of anywhere. The bloat and unaccountability of the bureaucracy federal government is unfathomable. The fact that this is being turned into a political issue is laughable. Anybody who makes an effort to bring more transparency to government spending is doing the first step in fixing the greatest threat to America's position in the world....which is the devaluation of the dollar and replacement in the world economy. Thinking that professional accountants and IG's are going make any sort of meaningful dent in solving the problem of government spending and unaccountable bureaucracy is also laughable. Been there, done that. Never resulted in anything remotely productive.

The GAO performs an audit of the federal government every year. On their report, they disclose that they were unable to gain any assurance on over 50% of federal spending. How do you like that? The professional auditors said that over 50% of the government is unauditable, essentially.

STU is obviously not open to information that contradicts his views, as evidenced by his blocking of the main posters in this thread.

More interesting is what is going in Europe. JD Vance's speech was a monumental moment in US/European relations.

I find it incredibly telling that the very people who are constantly showing their TDS, apparently are opposed to finding waste and fraud in the federal government. Just remember when watching the news, those screaming the loudest are very people who are multi-millionaires on a salary of around 170-180K per year. Now you can keep your head in the sand as long as you want, but you're exposing your a$$.

[Duck07]

Checking in with the news today:

- The subject of the leak was an attack that killed 2 little kids and hospitalized 2 others

If people gave a s*** in this country about kids being killed we wouldn't have had to choose between Harris or Trump. The Israeli/American Genocide continues and by and large people don't give AF. We're doomed.

[StevensTechU]

Checking in with the news today:

- The subject of the leak was an attack that killed 2 little kids and hospitalized 2 others

If people gave a s*** in this country about kids being killed we wouldn't have had to choose between Harris or Trump. The Israeli/American Genocide continues and by and large people don't give AF. We're doomed.

Stories of women and children getting killed hits me harder the older I get and watch my kids growing up. I don't have the callousness to imagine a 6 year old in Yemen is somehow different than a 6 year old in the US. My younger self, when my oldest brother fought in Iraq, was better at concluding civilian casualties were a part of conflict; you try to avoid it but you can never be perfect. My older self has really little tolerance for it at all.

If someone does something that deserves them getting punched, but they hold up a kid, I don't get to just punch the kid. I have to figure out a new plan. That's just the way it goes. Regarding your two options, there seems to be a very clear "Bad" and "Much worse." Yemen and Israel conflicts are clear areas of comparison.