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Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:41 am
by briarduck
Duck24 wrote:Alright I'm going to be that guy and somewhat support Joe Pa. I may have my facts wrong as I've literally read 40 articles on this in the past day and if I am wrong, please correct me. And maybe I shouldn't say that I support him, I just don't feel that he should be getting crucified in the media the way he is. First off, the cops and officials who declined to arrest/pursue Sandusky after he admitted to molesting two boys should take a ton of the heat. Also the Children's group/non-profit who were notified in 1998 that Sandusky was being investigated for assault/molestation but didn't ban him until 2008 is just as complicit. Don't get me wrong, this whole thing is an abortion of morals, ethics and general human decency but I don't agree that Joe Pa deserves to be crucified the way he is. Many different people screwed up in many different ways for it to reach this level yet Joe Pa is the one taking a majority of the heat. My biggest issue is the Joe Pa did what he was supposed to by reporting it to his "superiors" and they erred by not immediately banning him from campus and going to the police. I don't think this absolves Joe Pa from his moral obligation to follow up and ensure that his reporting this issue didn't fall on deaf ears. I don't want to get into the "he should have/if I were him I would have done this" game because I wasn't in his shoes and that seems to be what the media/everyone is doing. It took a lot of screwing up and potentially covering up for it to get this far to which many different people should be held culpable. There just seems to be so many layers surrounding this story and in my eyes, Joe Pa, while potentially culpable, did what he was supposed to do. I have a hard time killing a guys career because the people "above him" failed to do what was expected of them. Again, this doesn't mean that Joe Pa shouldn't have followed up or taken action of his own (kick Sandusky off campus permanently or something to the like) but the fact matters Joe Pa did what he was supposed to do and the people above him failed.
Now feel free to kill me. Also I must note that my opinion may change pending more information coming out, because let's be serious here, us as Duck fans should know to wait until all facts are known prior to jumping to conclusions.
Keep in mind JoePa is the leader/figure head of Penn St so that is why he is being attacked. He failed, he is the leader and leaders go down harder than others because thats the why it is. Don't forget the AD/President asked Sandusky to step down and he declined if JoePa had fired him, then reported him does any of this hasppen?
I originally would have made a simular argumernt for JoePa but after hearing what I heard yesterday...screw that! If I saw what the janitor/assistant coach saw (originally) and didn't report it to the POLICE (yes after the savage beating I would have given the guy), I would be guilty, maybe not to the letter of the law but how could you see something like that and not imediately do something about it!
Don't forgive JoePa, the assistant coach and whoever else who knew of this situation, its inexesusable that they failed to protect these children! Passing the info on the to someone else (BTW I like that they told others up the line) but it clearly didn't help so why didn't anyone one of those people do something/anything over the past 12 YEARS!
Children need protecting because they are inocent little soles who look at the world differently than adults do and for someone to take advantage of that is sicking!
Don't make excuses for them they don't deserve it.
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:04 am
by karlhungis
He says he's going to step down at the end of the year. I'm betting he doesn't last that long.
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:16 am
by neezy3
I find it interesting that everybody just considered Paterno a figurehead for the last decade, but now that this happened he is all the sudden a competent leader of the program. This will be a very deep and dark story as it continues and i'm going to choose to wait for all the facts to come out before i throw my stones. Very very sad deal though.
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:21 am
by lukeyrid13
Paterno has just been a figure moreso then a coach but if he is still accepting the paychecks to be the head coach then he needs to take responsibility like one
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:37 pm
by buckmarkduck
My argument is that at Penn St, Joe Paterno has no superiors. He's the top dog there, if Joe says jump they all ask how high. IMO It was his call to not report this to the authorities, whether or not anyone ever admits it, is another thing. Now he says he should have done more. You think Joe.
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:41 pm
by karlhungis
He was told his defensive coordinator was ass raping a 10 year old in the shower and didn't bother following up on it. He didn't even bother to find out who the kid was. He should be in jail.
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:00 pm
by buckmarkduck
karlhungis wrote:He was told his defensive coordinator was ass raping a 10 year old in the shower and didn't bother following up on it. He didn't even bother to find out who the kid was. He should be in jail.
It's my understanding is that in the state of Oregon, if a teacher or coach doesn't report such a thing, they would be in jail if it's proven they had knowledge of the issue and didn't report it to the police. I'm not sure why it's so different in Pennsylvania
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:41 pm
by Duck07
So, JoePa goes to the president. President doesn't call cops and Sandusky gets banned from bringing children onto campus - This right there, that is hook, line and sinker for all the civil suits that Penn State will now get. It shows and says "Donny, we knew this guy was a pederast and not fit to be around kids but the creep can roll man, and besides, we played him and O'Brien last week man in the weight room and they were pushovers"
Not to make light of this too much, but this could make for an amazing re-edit of clips from the Big L
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:12 pm
by karlhungis
Duck07 wrote:So, JoePa goes to the president. President doesn't call cops and Sandusky gets banned from bringing children onto campus - This right there, that is hook, line and sinker for all the civil suits that Penn State will now get. It shows and says "Donny, we knew this guy was a pederast and not fit to be around kids but the creep can roll man, and besides, we played him and O'Brien last week man in the weight room and they were pushovers"
Not to make light of this too much, but this could make for an amazing re-edit of clips from the Big L
10 year olds dude
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:22 pm
by ducklovinlady
Duck24 wrote:Alright I'm going to be that guy and somewhat support Joe Pa. I may have my facts wrong as I've literally read 40 articles on this in the past day and if I am wrong, please correct me. And maybe I shouldn't say that I support him, I just don't feel that he should be getting crucified in the media the way he is. First off, the cops and officials who declined to arrest/pursue Sandusky after he admitted to molesting two boys should take a ton of the heat. Also the Children's group/non-profit who were notified in 1998 that Sandusky was being investigated for assault/molestation but didn't ban him until 2008 is just as complicit. Don't get me wrong, this whole thing is an abortion of morals, ethics and general human decency but I don't agree that Joe Pa deserves to be crucified the way he is. Many different people screwed up in many different ways for it to reach this level yet Joe Pa is the one taking a majority of the heat. My biggest issue is the Joe Pa did what he was supposed to by reporting it to his "superiors" and they erred by not immediately banning him from campus and going to the police. I don't think this absolves Joe Pa from his moral obligation to follow up and ensure that his reporting this issue didn't fall on deaf ears. I don't want to get into the "he should have/if I were him I would have done this" game because I wasn't in his shoes and that seems to be what the media/everyone is doing. It took a lot of screwing up and potentially covering up for it to get this far to which many different people should be held culpable. There just seems to be so many layers surrounding this story and in my eyes, Joe Pa, while potentially culpable, did what he was supposed to do. I have a hard time killing a guys career because the people "above him" failed to do what was expected of them. Again, this doesn't mean that Joe Pa shouldn't have followed up or taken action of his own (kick Sandusky off campus permanently or something to the like) but the fact matters Joe Pa did what he was supposed to do and the people above him failed.
Now feel free to kill me. Also I must note that my opinion may change pending more information coming out, because let's be serious here, us as Duck fans should know to wait until all facts are known prior to jumping to conclusions.
Here's the thing though- in 1998, Sandusky was investigated by the campus police for showering with a young boy after his mother complained. The boy said Sandusky bear hugged him naked and other inappropriate conduct (read the jury indictment if you want to know more details of the witness testimony.) The campus police was asked to close the investigation and they decided that Sandusky would no longer be allowed to shower with boys at PSU. Sandusky admitted to inappropriate conduct!
One victim recalls Sandusky being upset after a meeting with Paterno where Sandusky was told that he would not be the next head coach. After that, Sandusky retires.
It seems that Paterno would have an inkling of what occurred in those showers in 1998. How could he not? Why would Paterno tell Sandusky that he would not be the next head coach and encouraged to retire? Sure, this is according the victim, but their word was good enough for the grand jury.
Now in 2002, a GA witnesses a boy being raped in the showers and goes to Paterno and he just turns it into to his superiors? After witnessing Sandusky at many events from 1998-2002 with young boys and on PSU's campus and not think something is amiss? Paterno's superiors decided to not allow Sandusky to bring boys on campus anymore, but allow him to maintain an office, parking spot and access to the program. Paterno still turns a blind eye?
I'm sorry- but the right thing to do would have been turning this one over to the authorities to investigate. Paterno does have some culpability in that in my opinion. He HAD to have known of the events from 1998 and he testified that he was told of inappropriate touching in 2002. How can any person hear of these events and not be sick to their stomach when you see Sandusky with young boys all the way up to 2009? So sad.
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:31 pm
by uodux1212
buckmarkduck wrote:karlhungis wrote:He was told his defensive coordinator was ass raping a 10 year old in the shower and didn't bother following up on it. He didn't even bother to find out who the kid was. He should be in jail.
It's my understanding is that in the state of Oregon, if a teacher or coach doesn't report such a thing, they would be in jail if it's proven they had knowledge of the issue and didn't report it to the police. I'm not sure why it's so different in Pennsylvania
Should have done MORE? How about should have done ANYTHING. He didnt do s***. He ran it up the chain of command? Great, not enough.
You are correct about the state of Oregon has laws requiring reporting of abuse. I worked in an after school care at a grade school in the late 90's and I had to be finger printed by Police, have a back ground check and sign a paper saying I understood my responsibilities as an "educator" and was considered a "mandatory reporter"... Im not sure what the penalties are for failing to report, but there are specific criminal and civil penalties...
In Oregon you are required to report any abuse to the CPS or local law enforcement, NOT YOUR BOSS.
http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/abuse/mandatory_report.shtml
Who are mandatory reporters? Medical personnel: Physicians, psychiatrists, surgeons, residents, interns, dentists, dentist hygienists, medical examiners, pathologists, osteopaths, coroners, Christian Science practitioners, chiropractors, podiatrists, optometrists, naturopathic physicians, registered and licensed practical nurses, emergency medical technicians, substance abuse treatment personnel, hospital administrators and other personnel involved in the examination, care or treatment of patients.
School and child care personnel: Teachers, school personnel, educational advocates assigned to a child pursuant to the School Code, truant officers, directors and staff assistants of day care centers and nursery schools.
Public employees: Members of the Legislative Assembly, employees of the State Commission on Children and Families, the Child Care Division of the Employment Department, the Oregon Youth Authority, a county health department, a community mental health and developmental disabilities program, a county juvenile department, and all DHS employees.
Law Enforcement: Truant officers, probation officers, law enforcement officers, and field personnel of the Department of Corrections.
Others: Psychologists, licensed clinical social workers, licensed professional counselors, licensed marriage and family therapists, members of the clergy, attorneys, firefighters, court appointed special advocates, registered or certified child care providers, and foster care providers and their employees.
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:55 pm
by ducklovinlady
Apparently Penn. has those same laws as well. That's what Gary Schultz, Senior Vice President of Finance and Business, and Tim Curley, Athletic Director, are being charged for. Penn. law requires an incident of this nature to be reported in 48 hours. They are also being charged for lying under oath.
Paterno is not being charged for failure to report, I'm guessing, because he ran it up the chain. The DA, however, made a statement something to the effect of how Paterno met his obligations legally, but not morally.
I still can't get over the fact that Paterno was made aware of this incident in 2002 (he testified that he had knowledge) and even if he believed he did his duty by reporting it to his superiors, how he never once thought it was strange that Sandusky was still allowed around children. My goodness, one of the victims met Sandusky at a camp held at Penn State in 2005 or 2006. The victim said Sandusky took him to Penn State games and even pre-season practices.... yet Paterno doesn't notice Sandusky with a young boy at a pre-season practice and think somethings out of line? Insane.
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:12 pm
by uostudent
karlhungis wrote:He says he's going to step down at the end of the year. I'm betting he doesn't last that long.
Agree. He shouldn't even be allowed to coach against Nebraska. I'd be shocked if he coaches after the Nebraska game and would be mildly surprised if he
even coaches on Saturday.
One of the more disgusting stories I've heard associated with college sports.
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:59 pm
by cordy02c
penn state fired him
Re: Breaking News: Penn State Working On Joe Paterno's Exit
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:18 pm
by uostudent
Definitely the right move. They had to get rid of him.