Ducks Attack Message Board Forum

I found this article to be well reasoned and insightful.

http://kontradictions.wordpress.com/201 ... -tell-you/

Bud Lee wrote:Sometimes all that is needed to stop a shooting or prevent it from continuing is an armed citizen. Back when I was in high school there was a shooting not far from me. The kid was stopped by a vice principle that retrieved his pistol from his truck.

I have a license to carry and often do because I want mine on me so I can act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

Sure, there are those occasions where mass shootings are stopped by an armed bystander. But this topic has been studied quite a lot, and the preponderance of the evidence points to armed bystanders actually contributing to more casualties, not less. Furthermore, gun accidents are way, way more common than events where guns are used on an attacker. Just a few days ago I read about a father who accidentally shot his young son in the stomach and killed him while putting his gun in his truck. That's extremely common. Guns are dangerous objects, and having them around tends to create far more hazard than it prevents. I understand the sentiment behind wanting to be able to defend yourself, but the fact is you're way more likely to hurt an innocent person than to use it in a helpful way. The people who believe we should have teachers always carry pistols on their waist or whatever think about the rare shootings like the ones you mention and gloss over the reality of the situation.

Tray Dub wrote:

Bud Lee wrote:Sometimes all that is needed to stop a shooting or prevent it from continuing is an armed citizen. Back when I was in high school there was a shooting not far from me. The kid was stopped by a vice principle that retrieved his pistol from his truck.

I have a license to carry and often do because I want mine on me so I can act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

Sure, there are those occasions where mass shootings are stopped by an armed bystander. But this topic has been studied quite a lot, and the preponderance of the evidence points to armed bystanders actually contributing to more casualties, not less. Furthermore, gun accidents are way, way more common than events where guns are used on an attacker. Just a few days ago I read about a father who accidentally shot his young son in the stomach and killed him while putting his gun in his truck. That's extremely common. Guns are dangerous objects, and having them around tends to create far more hazard than it prevents. I understand the sentiment behind wanting to be able to defend yourself, but the fact is you're way more likely to hurt an innocent person than to use it in a helpful way. The people who believe we should have teachers always carry pistols on their waist or whatever think about the rare shootings like the ones you mention and gloss over the reality of the situation.

Your overall point is well taken, and echoes some of my fears from earlier posts in this thread, RE: proliferation of "firefights" and collateral damage.

Some interesting thoughts on firearm accidents, if I may. Guns, while certainly dangerous when used irresponsibly, or in disregard of basic gun safety, are entirely comparable to other dangerous items in our lives. Accidental death numbers by firearm aren't even in the same realm as something like automobiles (a CDC study from '09 listed the difference as 554 vs. 38,255 unintentional deaths). So fatal gun accidents are not really all that common. The reason behind this discrepancy, I would submit, is precisely because responsible gun owners recognize the degree of danger in operating a firearm. Most gun owners I've been associated with take painstaking steps to follow proper safety protocol, and pass that along to their children. Incidentally, the only people I know with CCWs fall within this group of responsible gun owners.

Not sure I had a point there, just more food for thought.

Tray Dub wrote:

Bud Lee wrote:Sometimes all that is needed to stop a shooting or prevent it from continuing is an armed citizen. Back when I was in high school there was a shooting not far from me. The kid was stopped by a vice principle that retrieved his pistol from his truck.

I have a license to carry and often do because I want mine on me so I can act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

Sure, there are those occasions where mass shootings are stopped by an armed bystander. But this topic has been studied quite a lot, and the preponderance of the evidence points to armed bystanders actually contributing to more casualties, not less. Furthermore, gun accidents are way, way more common than events where guns are used on an attacker. Just a few days ago I read about a father who accidentally shot his young son in the stomach and killed him while putting his gun in his truck. That's extremely common. Guns are dangerous objects, and having them around tends to create far more hazard than it prevents. I understand the sentiment behind wanting to be able to defend yourself, but the fact is you're way more likely to hurt an innocent person than to use it in a helpful way. The people who believe we should have teachers always carry pistols on their waist or whatever think about the rare shootings like the ones you mention and gloss over the reality of the situation.

There are about 20,000 accidental shootings a year there have been more than 30,000 deaths in car accidents a year since 1933 with the total normally in the 50,000 range. Yet you don’t hear people saying that speed limits should be lowered or cars should not be able to go faster than 40 miles per hour.

Now I'm not saying that teachers should be armed, that is ridiculous, but the problem is with the guns it is with the shooters in these scenarios.

One thing that scares me in the coming weeks is the discussion over 'mental health' in this country. The DSM-V (the shrink bible) is coming out soon and with it, every single human emotion will now be able to be diagnosed by a "mental health professional" who will offer (force upon) you the latest synthetic drug from Big Pharma. I remember after Columbine that the movie Boondock Saints was scrapped from theaters and went straight to film. Today, we stop showing footage for the latest Tom Cruise innate bad-ass killer movie for a couple days before bringing them back out and using more absurd platitudes to describe this film as if it is transformational.

Our priorities in this society are so backwards that these things only make sense in the world we've created. We can't discuss things without becoming irate and offensive; we make hypocritical statements and point fingers forgetting that when we do so we're also pointing fingers back at ourselves; we've come to hate not just our neighbors but ourselves.

People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer. - Andrew Smith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zohgrnIxTMY

It is long overdue for us to return to balance in all things in our life, not just when we feel it is convenient.

Just to clarify, a diagnosis of aspergers, ADHD, bipolar, etc. in no way means that a client will immediately be prescribed drugs. Most of us who diagnose can't even prescribe medication, we are just required to have a diagnosis in our charts to receive funding from Medicaid/private insurance.
What I'm excited for in the DSM V is the inclusion of what would have previously been NOS diagnoses, or v Codes (seeing symptoms of a disorder but, not enough to diagnose) as less severe subtypes of disorders. That way we won't have kids getting labeled with mood disorders they don't deserve just to receive payment for services.

The son of a close friend had a lifelong dream of being in law enforcement... A doctor mis-diagnosed the boy when he was pre-teen, and placed him on Ritalin, for less than 2 weeks. A second opinion proved that diagnosis false.

When he had already completed a focused 4 year educationdegree that would directly benefit him in his dream of becoming a law enforcement professional, it was learned (During the background check portion of his Lane County Sheriff's Deputy hiring process, which is the final step before actually being approved for the job.) that childhood use of Ritalin automatically disqualifies him from that goal.

Be careful what you wish for.

whosyourwally wrote:Just to clarify, a diagnosis of aspergers, ADHD, bipolar, etc. in no way means that a client will immediately be prescribed drugs. Most of us who diagnose can't even prescribe medication, we are just required to have a diagnosis in our charts to receive funding from Medicaid/private insurance.
What I'm excited for in the DSM V is the inclusion of what would have previously been NOS diagnoses, or v Codes (seeing symptoms of a disorder but, not enough to diagnose) as less severe subtypes of disorders. That way we won't have kids getting labeled with mood disorders they don't deserve just to receive payment for services.

General Anxiety Disorder.
Oppositional Defiant Disorder.
Paraphillic Coercive Disorder.

I could go on with the absurd "disorders" that are being created but labeling every single human emotion as a disorder has no scientific basis whatsoever.