Ducks Attack Message Board Forum

Duck07 wrote:

StevensTechU wrote:

Duck07 wrote:If you really want to dig into the QB argument, Marcus is the only QB that Chip and Helfrich have truly developed, and his immense talents bring into question how much of that was natural vs learned.

Helfrich has Darron Thomas, Andrew Walter, Grant Hedrick, and Mariota all to his name. 2x QB Coach of the Year for a reason.

and yet only one of those QBs has made it in an NFL camp.

Who cares, since what they do in college is at that matters.

damascusduck wrote: Who cares, since what they do in college is at that matters.

100%. Anything they do in the NFL is a bonus.

I didn't want to start a new post just to say this, but I think it's an interesting tidbit.

The biggest knock on Herbert is competition, and previously I've said that I don't think the competition he faces is as bad as people think, and against the best teams he's performed really well. So to that point, Jesuit played @Beaverton against Colorado commit QB Sam Noyer on Friday. The outcome of that game was 70-0, Jesuit. Sam Noyer's stats for the game were 6-18 for 30 yards, 3 INTs all by Jesuit safety Jordan Happle. Against the same Jesuit team, @Jesuit, Justin Herbert was 25-40 (62.5%), 475 yards, 5TDs, 2 INTs.

That's why he's going to Colorado!!!!

damascusduck wrote:

Duck07 wrote:

StevensTechU wrote:

Duck07 wrote:If you really want to dig into the QB argument, Marcus is the only QB that Chip and Helfrich have truly developed, and his immense talents bring into question how much of that was natural vs learned.

Helfrich has Darron Thomas, Andrew Walter, Grant Hedrick, and Mariota all to his name. 2x QB Coach of the Year for a reason.

and yet only one of those QBs has made it in an NFL camp.

Who cares, since what they do in college is at that matters.

Well when most everyone is whining about the lack of development from the QB's, there's part of your answer.

OMG ROFLMAO hehe

StevensTechU wrote:I didn't want to start a new post just to say this, but I think it's an interesting tidbit.

The biggest knock on Herbert is competition, and previously I've said that I don't think the competition he faces is as bad as people think, and against the best teams he's performed really well. So to that point, Jesuit played @Beaverton against Colorado commit QB Sam Noyer on Friday. The outcome of that game was 70-0, Jesuit. Sam Noyer's stats for the game were 6-18 for 30 yards, 3 INTs all by Jesuit safety Jordan Happle. Against the same Jesuit team, @Jesuit, Justin Herbert was 25-40 (62.5%), 475 yards, 5TDs, 2 INTs.

Your assessment is sound and folks seem to overlook that Mariota wasn't exactly facing the top tier in Hawaii. Additionally, the QB from Lakeridge HS is starting as a true freshman at Syracuse this year so don't think that the competition here doesn't translate at the next level. That said, anyone throwing for 70% avg. at the high school level with his measurables, ability to go through the progressions, etc. has huge potential. Alie was never this accurate with so few tools.

Note - Justin did that damage in only his 2nd game as a starter for Sheldon (vs. Jesuit) which is even more impressive. It should also be noted that those are his only 2 INT's on the season. Too much is given to the star system which is primarily driven upon perceived competition unless they have otherworldly measurables and perform in the camps. This kid attended like 1 camp a day after having plates taken out of his leg. I think you can see from his film work that he's special and hope he grad's early. He's the first real QB prospect I've seen since Mariota that looks special. I especially like the similarities in Sheldon's offense to the Ducks, the transition should be much easier. I think he's a better passer where Mariota was a better runner/athlete.

gofightingducks wrote:

StevensTechU wrote:Agreed that it's a recruiting problem. J-Rod was a physical talent but still doesn't know what to do about college-level safeties. Lockie and Hobbs aren't/weren't D1 quality arms. Alie is a walk-on. Seems the problem hasn't been just that they aren't hitting it out of the park with QB recruits, but they're not even getting on base. The Big-12 has some of the best quarterbacks in the country, and none (Boykin, Mahomes, Mayfield, Russell) were highly recruited.

One of Mahalak/Jonsen/Herbert/Wilson has got to pan out. And I feel pretty good abut the OL they'll have in front of them.

Look at Baylor, they just keep plugging them in even though they might not be the most highly recruited or most talented. Every coach and team misses on recruits but the great coaches both coach up and develop what they have and work with their strengths. Chip Kelly did that. He only had Mariota one season, he had a JC transfer in Masoli, an athlete in Darron Thomas and he coached up and used Dixon's strengths, even when those guys were hurt he figured out ways to win with the back-ups for the most part. Its speaks to the unpreparedness and inexperience of the coaches in handling the post Mariota era.

Exactly and that's how Oregon has been the last 10 years. Plug and play. This year has been off for sure. Getting someone to successfully run our offense next year is very important though.

UOducksTK1 wrote:

gofightingducks wrote:

StevensTechU wrote:Agreed that it's a recruiting problem. J-Rod was a physical talent but still doesn't know what to do about college-level safeties. Lockie and Hobbs aren't/weren't D1 quality arms. Alie is a walk-on. Seems the problem hasn't been just that they aren't hitting it out of the park with QB recruits, but they're not even getting on base. The Big-12 has some of the best quarterbacks in the country, and none (Boykin, Mahomes, Mayfield, Russell) were highly recruited.

One of Mahalak/Jonsen/Herbert/Wilson has got to pan out. And I feel pretty good abut the OL they'll have in front of them.

Look at Baylor, they just keep plugging them in even though they might not be the most highly recruited or most talented. Every coach and team misses on recruits but the great coaches both coach up and develop what they have and work with their strengths. Chip Kelly did that. He only had Mariota one season, he had a JC transfer in Masoli, an athlete in Darron Thomas and he coached up and used Dixon's strengths, even when those guys were hurt he figured out ways to win with the back-ups for the most part. Its speaks to the unpreparedness and inexperience of the coaches in handling the post Mariota era.

Exactly and that's how Oregon has been the last 10 years. Plug and play. This year has been off for sure. Getting someone to successfully run our offense next year is very important though.

Guys, let's not forget Bennett who was a hell of player that ended up being drafted as well. As long as it can get righted quickly than no worries, however, losing JRod, Hobbs and Mariota and Mahalek turn out to be a bust can't be helped.

There is more going on that QB development. There is no discipline to scheme, tachling is bad and the WTD mantra has gone out the door. The coaching, offense and defense is awful. Frost has been terrible too. What is he doing with all these stupid trick plays? Why take the ball out of Adams hands during the extra point try? So many strange decisions right now. And why did he have Kani Benoit on the field during the most critical drive against WSU? As for Pellum..... I don't even know where to begin. He is just terrible. I never thought I would miss Aliotti this much.

jimmy12 wrote:There is more going on that QB development. There is no discipline to scheme, tachling is bad and the WTD mantra has gone out the door. The coaching, offense and defense is awful. Frost has been terrible too. What is he doing with all these stupid trick plays? Why take the ball out of Adams hands during the extra point try? So many strange decisions right now. And why did he have Kani Benoit on the field during the most critical drive against WSU? As for Pellum..... I don't even know where to begin. He is just terrible. I never thought I would miss Aliotti this much.

I'm with you on the defense but not quite as much with Frost. Primarily because we often do set up plays (set them up for the next series). The trick stuff was clearly about reducing the blitz which ASU calls after they've gotten into formation so I at least understand what he's doing and why he's doing it. Kani was in because Freeman is apparently a little banged up so it sounds like they needed him for protection That said, we're still putting avg. 30+ points a game with the exception of that abortion against Utah.

The defense is so bad they've even slowed down the tempo. That's how bad we've gotten. This is the best line play I've seen but the ILB's are virtually non-existant. A real coach would pull hardrick and walker and start Mattingly and the others. Maybe inspiration as a starter would get us some instinct and attacking plays. No way we'll ever get back over to elite status without a new DC. We fix that, we might be able to get back to elite status and start capturing some of these high four star and 5 star LB's.

I agree Smiley. Good analysis. Question: Let's start a threat on which DC's we would like to see at Oregon? Any ideas?

Since this is no longer about the header (haha), I'll add my 2 cents by saying that the Oregon offense has always gone up or down with quality of the guard play. This year we're feeling the heavy usage of Brenner/Pisarcik/Pierson, just like in 2013 when Mana Greig was starting. When guards can't consistently block, it ruins the zone read, which has always been the primary weapon in the red zone.

StevensTechU wrote:Since this is no longer about the header (haha), I'll add my 2 cents by saying that the Oregon offense has always gone up or down with quality of the guard play. This year we're feeling the heavy usage of Brenner/Pisarcik/Pierson, just like in 2013 when Mana Greig was starting. When guards can't consistently block, it ruins the zone read, which has always been the primary weapon in the red zone.

That is an excellent point. We're a little rough here but the good news is that we should be solid next year at this position. While we lose Pierson, we'll have Okun, Brenner and Pierson. Additionally some of the other boys who've come along. QB is going to be the issue.

Pierson will graduate this year. Early indications are that Lemieux, Hanson, and Throckmorton are all more likely to see playing time than Okun. I'm curious if Lemieux or Throck will jump Pisarcik and Brenner to get a starting spot next year. I really like Brenner and Pisarcik as people, but they've got pretty low ceilings talent-wise.

StevensTechU wrote:Pierson will graduate this year. Early indications are that Lemieux, Hanson, and Throckmorton are all more likely to see playing time than Okun. I'm curious if Lemieux or Throck will jump Pisarcik and Brenner to get a starting spot next year. I really like Brenner and Pisarcik as people, but they've got pretty low ceilings talent-wise.

My pick is Lemeiux. He moves really well and I was under the impression that Throckmorton is taking over at Center. That said, maybe Okun will progress further. He had a nice mean streak to him in HS but was likely a bit out-of-shape. If Radcliff can lean him up and he's motivated I wouldn't be surprised to see him make a big jump.