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Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:19 pm
by GoDucksTroll
I like this approach of looking at it. I will add that I view 2019 recruits who redshirted in 2019, 2020 recruits who played this year, and incoming 2021 recruits could all be playing as seniors in 2024 - weird quirk of the 4 games or less eligible to redshirt and pandemic season. Positions I’m worried about, in order from most to least:
1. DB
For a team that uses a lot of them we sure aren’t recruiting enough. It needs to be a priority in the 2022 recruiting class. Get CBs and Safeties. The good news is I have a lot of faith in Keith Heyward to both coach and recruit, plus the West Coast produces a lot of quality DB talent. Time to battle Dante Williams for some good recruits. Getting guys like Jamal Hill and DJ James from the South is also a good strategy - few Pac-12 teams have that kind of reach.
2. DL
Lots of bodies on the roster but the position group is so important that it can’t be recruited enough. You need edge rushers, big DEs who can seal and set the edge , NTs to eat up space, blockers, and get push, DTs who can cause havoc, Etc.
The rarest recruits. Guys like Kristian Williams, Brandon Dorlus, and Bradyn Swinson are looking like good finds. Get me JT Tuimoloau and I’ll stop complaining.
3. RB
Sean Dollars played better than I was expecting. Seven McGee can surprise us despite his size. Utah’s freshman Ty Jordan has been going crazy this year and he was listed as 5’7” 183 lbs as a recruit - although Utah lists him as 5’7” 200 now as a freshman. I doubt Seven gets near 200, but Kenjon was reliable at 5’9” 190 and LaMike at 5’8” 190. Benson is still an unknown hopefully he has a full recovery.
RBs are one of those positions where it’s a lot of luck scouting them. USC’s Stephen Carr was a 5-star and he sucks, while Jermar Jefferson was like the 40 something ranked RB and Travis Dye was even further back.
It would be nice to see an elite blue chip recruit.
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:27 pm
by GoDucksTroll
In my rambling I forgot to add that the group of Greenfield, David, Manning, Davies, Barkins, and Basso if he plays DB needs to have a
high hit percentage.
Losing Chris Steele (triple flip to USC), Cam Williams (flip to Washington), Luke Hill (flip to Maryland Department of Corrections), Myles Slusher (flip to Arkansas), Avantae Williams (flip to Miami, serious illness?) over the last two years hurts. Even Jeremiah Criddell would have been of some use, or Kahlef Hallassie.
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:01 am
by jimmy12
GoDucksTroll wrote:In my rambling I forgot to add that the group of Greenfield, David, Manning, Davies, Barkins, and Basso if he plays DB needs to have a
high hit percentage.
Losing Chris Steele (triple flip to USC), Cam Williams (flip to Washington), Luke Hill (flip to Maryland Department of Corrections), Myles Slusher (flip to Arkansas), Avantae Williams (flip to Miami, serious illness?) over the last two years hurts. Even Jeremiah Criddell would have been of some use, or Kahlef Hallassie.
Cam Williams is the one that I would love to have back. He's a dude.
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:25 pm
by ducks5ever
OrTDuck wrote:2021 is going to be a very mature OL group. Moore, Jones, MAL, Bass, Forsyth. I can see all returning for 2021 and Moore is gonna be in what, year 7? MAL year 5, Forsyth year 5, Jones, Bass year 4?
2022? I can see everyone gone except maybe AF (who might or might not take advantage of an extra year). The good news is 2021 should allow the staff to put together a full second string and let them play together a year as a second string. I think doing this in 2019 greatly aided in bringing in the "new" line in 2020 and should pay benefits again in 2022.
Grabbing the JC kid would be huge.
Right.... brain fart on my end. I forgot that the line this year was actually mostly made of upperclassmen even though they have never started a game before. I knew this would be too good to be true lol. Welp I guess hopefully the OL from this year's class will pan out because we will sure need them in 2022 - might determine how 2022 goes then.
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:18 am
by GoDucksIn09
I think with Mirabal and Cristobal that can trust their assessment of offensive line recruiting. We always need guys on the DL. If we could manage to land 4 and 5 star recruits across the defensive line on regular basis we would be doing good. Yes there are guys who do not pan out and there are 3 stars who are late bloomers or have some other variable that keeps them at a 3 star but overall your 4 and 5 star players typically are the ones ending up in the pros. I think I will always be concerned about the building depth on the defensive line.
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:49 am
by StevensTechU
Oregon has never had a deeper defensive line, yet people are still panicked about the defensive line. It honestly feels like half the schollys would go to the 3-4 positions along the line if fans had their way.
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:08 am
by ducks5ever
StevensTechU wrote:Oregon has never had a deeper defensive line, yet people are still panicked about the defensive line. It honestly feels like half the schollys would go to the 3-4 positions along the line if fans had their way.
Similar situation to RB though? Lots of players at the position but the talent there is questionable. We of course hope that it will pan out but it's been a while since we had a DL that could close the pocket and create sacks this way, or a DL that stopped the run cold.
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:23 am
by StevensTechU
ducks5ever wrote:StevensTechU wrote:Oregon has never had a deeper defensive line, yet people are still panicked about the defensive line. It honestly feels like half the schollys would go to the 3-4 positions along the line if fans had their way.
Similar situation to RB though? Lots of players at the position but the talent there is questionable. We of course hope that it will pan out but it's been a while since we had a DL that could close the pocket and create sacks this way, or a DL that stopped the run cold.
I don't think it is questionable. Of the 3 full-time starters, one is all-world (Thibs), one is a 4-year starter (FatMac), and one is a 3+ year starter (Faoliu). Of the backups, we've seen that Dorlus would be a starter on most teams, as would Popo, who was limited this year by injury. Ware-Hudson and Kristian Williams are solid contributors when they get PT. And then there's Swinson, 4-star Jones, HS All-American Afaese, and Shipley, who we have seen little to none of because the depth is so good ahead of them.
Are we not satisfied until everyone on the 2-deep is an All-American?
Edit: Name a Pac-12 or Big-12 team who you'd trade our DL roster for.
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:59 pm
by OrTDuck
Was it 2003 for one game (Mississippi State) Oregon went:
Igor Olshansky - Haloti Ngata - Junior Siavii - Devan Long
along the DL? 1,240 pounds of DL that went on to combine for 28 years in the NFL.
Igor and Haloti to combined for 10 blocked FGs in their Oregon careers. Where has that gone? Sadly, an injury on the punt unit limited it to one game. I think Robby Valenzuela was a back up on that unit.
Boat load of talent. As well the front of Buckner-Balducci-Armstead-Washington has 12 years in the NFL to this point.
Not Alabama-regular or tOSU-regular, but it shows dominant DLs can be assembled (and be an Oregon thing). Shoot high. I'd agree the DL heading forward looks to be solid on paper. Haven't heard his name mentioned much (yet) but it would be huge (no pun intended) if the Jones kids develops. I think I'm one of those fans who is just always wanting to feed and feed that position group.
Edit/fix: looking like I blanking on Balducci (2014), HM being depth that year. Thanks!
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:56 pm
by brich75
StevensTechU wrote:ducks5ever wrote:StevensTechU wrote:Oregon has never had a deeper defensive line, yet people are still panicked about the defensive line. It honestly feels like half the schollys would go to the 3-4 positions along the line if fans had their way.
Similar situation to RB though? Lots of players at the position but the talent there is questionable. We of course hope that it will pan out but it's been a while since we had a DL that could close the pocket and create sacks this way, or a DL that stopped the run cold.
I don't think it is questionable. Of the 3 full-time starters, one is all-world (Thibs), one is a 4-year starter (FatMac), and one is a 3+ year starter (Faoliu). Of the backups, we've seen that Dorlus would be a starter on most teams, as would Popo, who was limited this year by injury. Ware-Hudson and Kristian Williams are solid contributors when they get PT. And then there's Swinson, 4-star Jones, HS All-American Afaese, and Shipley, who we have seen little to none of because the depth is so good ahead of them.
Are we not satisfied until everyone on the 2-deep is an All-American?
Edit: Name a Pac-12 or Big-12 team who you'd trade our DL roster for.
UH WASHINGTONS! just ask them!
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:39 pm
by GoDucksTroll
StevensTechU wrote:Oregon has never had a deeper defensive line, yet people are still panicked about the defensive line. It honestly feels like half the schollys would go to the 3-4 positions along the line if fans had their way.
This is not our most talented DL. That’s just not accurate by either production or recruiting rankings.
KT is incredible and the best edge DE we’ve ever had. He’s gone after 2021.
Unless Oregon gets one to add to this recruiting class or next year’s there will be no consensus 4-star or higher on the DL in 2022 for the first time since? I’ve gone back through the recruiting rankings and I can’t find an Oregon roster without one.
I’m worried about DL for a good reason, the defense after the first four games shows what happens when your interior d-line gets pushed around. I’m very high on Kristian Williams and Brandon Dorlus. But out top-4 interior DL for next year have combined for what? Like 40 tackles and 5 sacks? Most of which is Popo. That’s not exactly a group that inspires confidence.
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:38 pm
by StevensTechU
GoDucksTroll wrote:StevensTechU wrote:Oregon has never had a deeper defensive line, yet people are still panicked about the defensive line. It honestly feels like half the schollys would go to the 3-4 positions along the line if fans had their way.
This is not our most talented DL. That’s just not accurate by either production or recruiting rankings.
KT is incredible and the best edge DE we’ve ever had. He’s gone after 2021.
Unless Oregon gets one to add to this recruiting class or next year’s there will be no consensus 4-star or higher on the DL in 2022 for the first time since? I’ve gone back through the recruiting rankings and I can’t find an Oregon roster without one.
I’m worried about DL for a good reason, the defense after the first four games shows what happens when your interior d-line gets pushed around. I’m very high on Kristian Williams and Brandon Dorlus. But out top-4 interior DL for next year have combined for what? Like 40 tackles and 5 sacks? Most of which is Popo. That’s not exactly a group that inspires confidence.
This is one of your more odd posts, if I'm being honest.
First, I said deep, then you said talented. DeForest Buckner's final year was talented, I guess? because DeForest was there, and Mondeaux has stuck around the pros. But there was zero depth.
As far as being worried about returning production, that's like being worried we're stuck with Marcus because Darron Thomas left for the pros early. Returning production is awesome when you can get it, but the college game is predicated on running new guys out there. How much production are you expecting to see in 2020 for guys who will be counted on in 2022 and 2023?
So again, what Pac-12 or Big 12 teams are you trading our DL roster for?
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:18 am
by GoDucksTroll
StevensTechU wrote:GoDucksTroll wrote:StevensTechU wrote:Oregon has never had a deeper defensive line, yet people are still panicked about the defensive line. It honestly feels like half the schollys would go to the 3-4 positions along the line if fans had their way.
This is not our most talented DL. That’s just not accurate by either production or recruiting rankings.
KT is incredible and the best edge DE we’ve ever had. He’s gone after 2021.
Unless Oregon gets one to add to this recruiting class or next year’s there will be no consensus 4-star or higher on the DL in 2022 for the first time since? I’ve gone back through the recruiting rankings and I can’t find an Oregon roster without one.
I’m worried about DL for a good reason, the defense after the first four games shows what happens when your interior d-line gets pushed around. I’m very high on Kristian Williams and Brandon Dorlus. But out top-4 interior DL for next year have combined for what? Like 40 tackles and 5 sacks? Most of which is Popo. That’s not exactly a group that inspires confidence.
This is one of your more odd posts, if I'm being honest.
First, I said deep, then you said talented. DeForest Buckner's final year was talented, I guess? because DeForest was there, and Mondeaux has stuck around the pros. But there was zero depth.
As far as being worried about returning production, that's like being worried we're stuck with Marcus because Darron Thomas left for the pros early. Returning production is awesome when you can get it, but the college game is predicated on running new guys out there. How much production are you expecting to see in 2020 for guys who will be counted on in 2022 and 2023?
So again, what Pac-12 or Big 12 teams are you trading our DL roster for?
My bad - for some reason my brain saw talented in another reply and replaced it for the deep part.
I guess it depends on what your definition of depth is. A bunch of bodies and scholarships is not what it means to me. Having LaMike, Kenjon, DAT, and Tra Carson as running backs - that’s depth. KT, a backup NT in Popo and a bunch of guys who haven’t proven anything or look all that great is not depth, it’s wishful thinking.
The Marcus/Darron QB situation is completely different. You play one QB, can’t compare it to DL.
I wasn’t expecting much, if any, production from 2020 freshmen. It’s a good thing I wasn’t expecting much DL production from the 2018 or 2019 classes either. I shouldn’t even mention 2018 since it was the Taggart snake class. While we’ve fixed deficiencies across almost all position groups our DL hasn’t surpassed pre 2015 levels.
Even 2015 (other than DeFo) had Balducci, Tui Talia, Mondeaux, and young guys who had flashed in Hollins (played in 2014 but out for 2015) and Jelks. That’s three guys on NFL rosters (Balducci not included, although he played in some regular season games), and another in Jelks who was drafted. If DeFo and KT cancel each other out you think this current group will fare better? Will two out of KWilliams/Dorlus/KWH/Swinson etc be drafted?
As for what DL group I’d trade it for, I can’t say since I’m not as familiar with all the other Big-12 and Pac-12 rosters. They’re our guys I’m wanting to let it ride. It would be nice to have one of the ones that has more than one defensive lineman with multiple TFLs or sacks. Or one of those that hasn’t given up 270 yards rushing twice.
I hope our 2021 DL kicks ass and the way they played against USC is a sign of things to come. I’m just hesitant when we’re seeing massive recruiting upticks in many positions, and DL - a position group that is largely dependent on a mix of natural talent/size, is not improving. 2019’s defense was incredible, but for the most part I’ve been disappointed with the returns on Big Joe.
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:09 pm
by Duck07
Re: Last 2 classes - '20 and '21
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:45 pm
by UOducksTK1