Avante Dickerson

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lmduck

Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by lmduck »

alxtw wrote:
Phalanx wrote:One thing I find sad is that we signed two corners and two safeties in this class already, and apparently, that isn't enough. It seems like MC and Co. spend more scholarships on less players than we are used to, and now we are turning away players like Dickerson and Nacua (and possibly Moko). Does everyone think Mario is managing scholarships well? Or is he having a high percentage of misses among all the highly-rated recruits? Why does it feel like we still don't have the depth we need?
Did Nacua want to transfer to Oregon? He's a proven good WR and has good height. We should definitely take him, as he'd be a big upgrade to our WR group.
Not confirmed he wanted to transfer to UO. It was internet fodder.


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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by GoDucksTroll »

StevensTechU wrote:The trouble with the DB recruiting is that when it comes to recruiting cornerbacks, the staff seems to think that you can fit safeties and 'athletes' into the position, rather than looking for guys who show they're great at staying in a receiver's hip pocket.

Class of '20
- Dontae Manning is a fantastic athlete and was a great dual threat QB in high school, but he's new to CB. He would probably get on the field faster as a free safety where he can let his athleticism take over (remember Charles Nelson was our most productive safety with a week of practice), but will take time to be a cornerback.
- Bennett Williams doesn't have the speed to be a corner, so he's a safety and maybe nickel.
- Jared Greenfield could play corner in a pinch, IMO, but safety is definitely his natural position due to both a 'center fielder mentality' and not the greatest top line speed.

Class of '21
- Davies is a natural corner.
- Daymon David is a downhill run-stopping safety. Definitely not a corner.
- Bassa is probably a OLB because of his size/lack of cover ability.
- Barkins has the athleticism for the position, but looks most natural at wide receiver. Whatever position he plays, it will be a while before he sees the field.

Luke Hill is a natural corner, but doesn't help when you're incarcerated.
This is looking to be the case, where DB to them seems a bit interchangeable. And I often see fans saying something along the lines of just switch him to CB but if there is one position in all of football that had the most specific combination of requirements it’s CB.

Most positions have some leeway on height, weight, speed, etc. CB is extremely limited. 5’10”-6’2” and a legit 4.60 or under 40. 5’9” and 4.60 40 puts you in the bottom 7% of height and bottom 20% of speed at the NFL combine. In 2020 only three CBs ran over 4.60 and only one of them was under 6’1” - Washington’s Myles Bryant who went undrafted and got signed by the patriots as a safety. It’s not just straight line speed either, that hip flexibility that they talk about is a requirement. Your ability to quickly change direction and accelerate, so you can cover a receiver who will be going in unknown directions.

So we’re basically looking for nothing special, just those 6’ 190 pound dudes who can run a 4.45 while having supreme agility and long arms. Oh, and they need to be aggressive too. They also need to be strong enough to get off a block, box out a 6’6” 260 pound TE, and tackle a 220 pound running back.

There’s a reason the elite CBs go on the NFL hierarchy on tier 3. Tier 1 being QBs, Tier 2 are edge rushers and OTs, and Tier 3 are CBs and WRs. The elite CBs are rare.

If you’re going to take a chance on any position because of the right athletic and size profile then CB is up near the top. It’s troubling that Cristobal and company aren’t prioritizing this position when there is one proven CB on the roster, and there’s a good chance he’s gone after this season.
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by HomeSickDuck »

Jhop posted a prediction for Avante to Oregon.
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by RanDux »

Cardwell and Dickerson would be a very nice finish to this class. I am pumped.
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by HomeSickDuck »

Jhop also posted an article about having three spots left and his three predictions. Don’t have a subscription.
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by StevensTechU »

Looking forward to Dick Island posters in the student section in a few years.
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by woundedknees »

StevensTechU wrote:Looking forward to Dick Island posters in the student section in a few years.
Oregon students are all class, unlike, errr... Never mind!
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by SteelTown43 »

Uh...looks like Biggins just put in a CB for...Arkansas?
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by UOducksTK1 »

SteelTown43 wrote:Uh...looks like Biggins just put in a CB for...Arkansas?
Nah, Biggins picked Oregon (According to 247)

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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by StevensTechU »

Had a mini-heart attack. Dickerson is a must-get.

By the way, if Oregon does wind up with him, this might be the best 'fell right into our lap' player since Ugo Amadi. Position is quite the coincidence, but Oregon has had some really good late signees (DJ James, Jamal Hill, and now presumably Dickerson).
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by jimmy12 »

Fell in our lap-- ISH. Remember our DB coach (Rod Chance) came from Minnesota (where Avante was committed). So, I imagine he's been recruited by coach Chance for quite some time.
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by Tray Dub »

Quack
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by StevensTechU »

GoDucksTroll wrote: This is looking to be the case, where DB to them seems a bit interchangeable. And I often see fans saying something along the lines of just switch him to CB but if there is one position in all of football that had the most specific combination of requirements it’s CB.

Most positions have some leeway on height, weight, speed, etc. CB is extremely limited. 5’10”-6’2” and a legit 4.60 or under 40. 5’9” and 4.60 40 puts you in the bottom 7% of height and bottom 20% of speed at the NFL combine. In 2020 only three CBs ran over 4.60 and only one of them was under 6’1” - Washington’s Myles Bryant who went undrafted and got signed by the patriots as a safety. It’s not just straight line speed either, that hip flexibility that they talk about is a requirement. Your ability to quickly change direction and accelerate, so you can cover a receiver who will be going in unknown directions.

So we’re basically looking for nothing special, just those 6’ 190 pound dudes who can run a 4.45 while having supreme agility and long arms. Oh, and they need to be aggressive too. They also need to be strong enough to get off a block, box out a 6’6” 260 pound TE, and tackle a 220 pound running back.

There’s a reason the elite CBs go on the NFL hierarchy on tier 3. Tier 1 being QBs, Tier 2 are edge rushers and OTs, and Tier 3 are CBs and WRs. The elite CBs are rare.

If you’re going to take a chance on any position because of the right athletic and size profile then CB is up near the top. It’s troubling that Cristobal and company aren’t prioritizing this position when there is one proven CB on the roster, and there’s a good chance he’s gone after this season.
I have a little bit less of an emphasis on tangibles (not none, just perhaps less). In recent years, schools have gotten really obsessed with height. All the while, Ifo Okpre-Olomu is probably the best Oregon corner in the last two decades and he was 5'9. Would I love it if we could find an Ifo who is 6'2? Sure, but he was fantastic as-is, and based on looking at the best corners in the NFL, 6'2 Ifos don't exist (the corners on the All-Pro team ranged in height from 5'10 to 6'1, and PFF's top 10 corners in the league range from 5'9 to 6'1). I would agree that if a guy is 5'7 or below, I don't think I'm offering him a full-ride to Oregon. Similarly, if he can't run a sub-11.2 100m or 4.6 40m, count me out. That said, guys who have those measurables (Jamal Hill, Daewood Davis for instance) prove that the measurables themselves aren't what make a good corner.

Corners are unique in the amount of man-to-man coverage they play. Safeties get to play centerfield a lot, reading the QB as much/more than the receiver, while corners have to track their guy and stick to their hip - it's a unique skill when you compare it to other football positions, which is why you can't frequently just turn guys into corners. Coverage skills are as much about reading an offensive player as anything. If you give proper cushion and have smooth backpedaling, you don't have to run very fast (watch Northwestern's corners lock down Auburn's wide receivers). If you bite a move/double move, no amount of speed is going to let you catch up. As far as height, 95% of balls are thrown head-high or lower, and the 5% that are jump balls can still be punched out with a well-timed leap and good hand fighting. However, you never give yourself a chance if you lost track of your receiver. The abilities of understanding spacing, patience/focus, smooth backpedaling, and being able to quickly accelerate/change direction when the ball is thrown will make a great college corner even at 5'9 and 4.6 speed.
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by Phalanx »

Cliff Harris, who definitely played in the last two decades, is 5'11'', in case anyone was wondering.

What a great last-minute signing. Davies and Dickerson makes the defensive backfield something to look forward to in the years to come. It's also always satisfying to steal a recruit out of Nebraska, given all those years when NU used to take their choice of Oregon players when I was growing up.
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Re: Avante Dickerson

Post by woundedknees »

Phalanx wrote:Cliff Harris, who definitely played in the last two decades, is 5'11'', in case anyone was wondering.

What a great last-minute signing. Davies and Dickerson makes the defensive backfield something to look forward to in the years to come. It's also always satisfying to steal a recruit out of Nebraska, given all those years when NU used to take their choice of Oregon players when I was growing up.
Boy, wasn't that the truth.

I grew up in the years when Oregon ended up in places like Nebraska as the "pay for play" opponent.

Schools like Nebraska had 2-3x the players on the sidelines that Oregon was able to field, any day. Many of those players could have started at schools like Oregon, yet chose to stand on the sidelines at a 'storied' program.

It sucked.

They were considered the "rich kids". The Huskers weight room was larger than the entire Oregon football admin structure.

Thank God for scholarship limits.
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