Ducks Attack Message Board Forum

Boom wrote:

UOducksTK1 wrote:

Duck07 wrote:Our defense, while not stellar, is mostly what has allowed us to stay in so many games. Kingma may not be a great solo defender, but in this system he'll be fine, especially when you consider what he should be able to do for us on the other end of the floor. Relax guys, this team is going to be really good, not this season but soon enough.

That's a good point. Individual defenders aren't always a need, as long as they can fit in the system.

Having a "defensive system" does not make up for undersized and below average athleticism.

6'1" is hardly undersized for a PG..

Ridnour had no athleticism, our team was fine under him.
Brooks was undersized, our team was fine with him.

You're blowing this out of proportions IMO. I don't get the Kingma hate. He looks like Ridnour sometimes when I watch his film.

Kingma looks like a SG.

I don't see were you're getting these Ridnour comparisons...... Ridnour was a legit PG with a great handle who also happened to be a McDonald’s and Parade All-American.....

Kingma dribbles high and looks slow with the ball in his hands....... but yes he does have a nice pull up.

I think it is pointless for us too discuss the merits of all our current players.
We can sit here all day and compare Sim's and Armstead's defensive skills, individually.
The only stats that matter are the team's overall numbers.

The best line I can think of regarding the Ducks performance right now, is "there is
no substitute for talent." And it is obvious the Ducks don't have enough to play
at a competitive level in the Pac-10. At least right now.

I noticed in the Arizona game that Altman kept Jacobs, Catron, Singler, Lloyd, Sims,
and Armstead in so long that by the end of the third quarter they had already hit
the wall. A small lineup is all we have.

A team is only as good as it's bench and the Ducks are skint with just walk-ons
and transfers like Losli, Fearn, and Stowbridge. There is just too big a talent drop off.

Altman is called a program builder and it is obvious he inherited something that was
a lot worse than we all expected. But he has been a mid-major coach most of his life
and is coming to a large university in an area of the country he is not familiar with.

Time will only tell if he bit off more than he can chew. But it is becoming more obvious to
me that it will take a lot of time to get right!

Boom wrote:Kingma looks like a SG.

I don't see were you're getting these Ridnour comparisons...... Ridnour was a legit PG with a great handle who also happened to be a McDonald’s and Parade All-American.....

Kingma dribbles high and looks slow with the ball in his hands....... but yes he does have a nice pull up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrdK0EAGtDc
start at 1:25 a few good passes. (first and third passes are nice, never seen Sim EVER pass a ball like that)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhHubKJOxxc
1:28 (ridnour type pass)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLLeuJMxbb8
1:43 to 2:04 is more athletic than anything I've ever seen Luke Ridnour do. IMO for a 6'1" PG, his athleticism is fine for pac-10.


I didn't say he is Ridnour. You complained about height and athleticism, but I gave you 2 example PGs who were the most successful PGs ever at Oregon that were either undersized or nonathletic. And he reminds me of Ridnour because of his ridiculously accurate 3 point shot and some of his nifty passes.

And then to emphasize his shooting, if only we could have someone have a game like this for the Ducks once in a while..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohk_aZr54nI

UOducksTK1 wrote:

Boom wrote:Kingma looks like a SG.

I don't see were you're getting these Ridnour comparisons...... Ridnour was a legit PG with a great handle who also happened to be a McDonald’s and Parade All-American.....

Kingma dribbles high and looks slow with the ball in his hands....... but yes he does have a nice pull up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrdK0EAGtDc
start at 1:25 a few good passes. (first and third passes are nice, never seen Sim EVER pass a ball like that)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhHubKJOxxc
1:28 (ridnour type pass)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLLeuJMxbb8
1:43 to 2:04 is more athletic than anything I've ever seen Luke Ridnour do. IMO for a 6'1" PG, his athleticism is fine for pac-10.

I disagree, athletically he's similar to Sim and he will struggle to defend Pac 10 guards... Sim actually looks more athletic to me.

UOducksTK1 wrote:I didn't say he is Ridnour. You complained about height and athleticism, but I gave you 2 example PGs who were the most successful PGs ever at Oregon that were either undersized or nonathletic. And he reminds me of Ridnour because of his ridiculously accurate 3 point shot and some of his nifty passes.

And then to emphasize his shooting, if only we could have someone have a game like this for the Ducks once in a while..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohk_aZr54nI

Yes, Ridnour was a defensive liability...... but he was also one of the best PG's in CBB. Again I don't see Kingma in the same light. His strengths are moving without the ball and his jumper. I don't think his handle & ability to play the PG position is half as good as Rids.

And if Kingma is playing PG who do you pair him up with? Jabari Brown would work, but what about Bruce Barron? do you move him to the 2? You certainly shouldn't have Kingma paired up with Loyd, Armstead, or Sim...

Kingma is a pure shooter... Brown is a combo guard, and of the incoming group, Bruce Barron is the one who most resembles a PG.

I think people are underselling Luke R.'s defensive abilities. He certainly wasn't a defensive All-American, however he was no pushover either. There was a big difference in his defensive game once he strengthened and gained some game experience in college. He wouldn't be playing in the NBA if he didn't have some defensive skills.

I think before people start ragging on Kingma they need to see him focused on defense and allow him time to strengthen in our conditioning program. Most HS players aren't focused on defense. Hard to judge their skills in those areas especially from highlight tapes that are generally offensively based. Plus I agree with Duck07 that even if he's just adequate defensively he was recruited as a guy that's going to fill it up from outside.

And a defensive system, or team defense, is critical to any team's success. Team defense and knowing how to help teammates and knowing where to be on the floor can make up for some individual defensive liabilities. No one team has 5-7 defensive all-stars that play great one-on-one defense. Even if they did, the great offensive player always has the advantage since they know what/where they're going.

Boom wrote:

UOducksTK1 wrote:

Boom wrote:Kingma looks like a SG.

I don't see were you're getting these Ridnour comparisons...... Ridnour was a legit PG with a great handle who also happened to be a McDonald’s and Parade All-American.....

Kingma dribbles high and looks slow with the ball in his hands....... but yes he does have a nice pull up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrdK0EAGtDc
start at 1:25 a few good passes. (first and third passes are nice, never seen Sim EVER pass a ball like that)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhHubKJOxxc
1:28 (ridnour type pass)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLLeuJMxbb8
1:43 to 2:04 is more athletic than anything I've ever seen Luke Ridnour do. IMO for a 6'1" PG, his athleticism is fine for pac-10.

I disagree, athletically he's similar to Sim and he will struggle to defend Pac 10 guards... Sim actually looks more athletic to me.

UOducksTK1 wrote:I didn't say he is Ridnour. You complained about height and athleticism, but I gave you 2 example PGs who were the most successful PGs ever at Oregon that were either undersized or nonathletic. And he reminds me of Ridnour because of his ridiculously accurate 3 point shot and some of his nifty passes.

And then to emphasize his shooting, if only we could have someone have a game like this for the Ducks once in a while..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohk_aZr54nI

Yes, Ridnour was a defensive liability...... but he was also one of the best PG's in CBB. Again I don't see Kingma in the same light. His strengths are moving without the ball and his jumper. I don't think his handle & ability to play the PG position is half as good as Rids.

And if Kingma is playing PG who do you pair him up with? Jabari Brown would work, but what about Bruce Barron? do you move him to the 2? You certainly shouldn't have Kingma paired up with Loyd, Armstead, or Sim...

Sure, Sim is more athletic, but he sucks. Kingma has a better shot, better vision, better ball handling, better passing.

How are his strengths moving without the ball when over 60% of his jump shots in his highlights are off the dribble? Smh... And obviously he isn't Ridnour, but all I said is I saw flashes of Luke when watching Kingma. Can't say the same about Sim.

Barron is a combo, as is Kingma. Barron is like 6'2" and is pretty huge for a guard. I expect him to play SG more.

duckduckgoose wrote:The basketball posts on here are starting to remind me of Oregonlive lately. People talking crap about current Ducks players and future recruits makes this part of the board hard to read. Some of the Simms should be replaced by Williams posts are getting ridiculous. Altman who has already proved to me that he can coach better than Ernie, has no idea that Williams is better than Simms even though he sees them in practice every day? C'mon people all these players made a commitment to the school that we all love. Don't they deserve at least our respect on here?

It's Sim. And I don't see there being anything wrong with fans debating over who should start and who shouldn't. Sim is shooting 25% from behind the arc, Teondre is one of our best 3point shooters. Right now we need offense, so I'd like to see Teondre start.

And honestly, right now it's more of a debate with Kingma more than anything ha. I love what I see in Kingma. If anyone watched the Oregon vs Washington high school all star game, they'd love him too.

UOducksTK1 wrote:

duckduckgoose wrote:The basketball posts on here are starting to remind me of Oregonlive lately. People talking crap about current Ducks players and future recruits makes this part of the board hard to read. Some of the Simms should be replaced by Williams posts are getting ridiculous. Altman who has already proved to me that he can coach better than Ernie, has no idea that Williams is better than Simms even though he sees them in practice every day? C'mon people all these players made a commitment to the school that we all love. Don't they deserve at least our respect on here?

It's Sim. And I don't see there being anything wrong with fans debating over who should start and who shouldn't. Sim is shooting 25% from behind the arc, Teondre is one of our best 3point shooters. Right now we need offense, so I'd like to see Teondre start.

And honestly, right now it's more of a debate with Kingma more than anything ha. I love what I see in Kingma. If anyone watched the Oregon vs Washington high school all star game, they'd love him too.

I can, however, see why Altman has Teondre coming off the bench. First, Altman seems to view him more as a SF; his minutes tend to come when EJ sits, or when we go (even) small(er) and EJ slides to the 4. Second, while our starting unit isn't exactly stacked with prolific scorers, our bench is even worse. We need some scoring punch in reserve, and Teondre kinda/sorta represents that. And lastly... I use 'kinda/sorta' because while I think Sim receives way too much hate here by a bunch of people who don't really know what they're talking about, I think Teondre is overrated in these same circles. Is Teondre athletic? Yeah. Can he drill a trey? Only if he's in the corner, wide open. He's also EXTREMELY timid on the court, and is rarely, if ever, aggressive offensively. To steal a line from some poster on eDuck, he's about as aggressive with the ball as my wheel chair-bound grandmother. Couple those things with terrible defense, and you get a kid coming off the bench.

oregontrack wrote:

UOducksTK1 wrote:

duckduckgoose wrote:The basketball posts on here are starting to remind me of Oregonlive lately. People talking crap about current Ducks players and future recruits makes this part of the board hard to read. Some of the Simms should be replaced by Williams posts are getting ridiculous. Altman who has already proved to me that he can coach better than Ernie, has no idea that Williams is better than Simms even though he sees them in practice every day? C'mon people all these players made a commitment to the school that we all love. Don't they deserve at least our respect on here?

It's Sim. And I don't see there being anything wrong with fans debating over who should start and who shouldn't. Sim is shooting 25% from behind the arc, Teondre is one of our best 3point shooters. Right now we need offense, so I'd like to see Teondre start.

And honestly, right now it's more of a debate with Kingma more than anything ha. I love what I see in Kingma. If anyone watched the Oregon vs Washington high school all star game, they'd love him too.

I can, however, see why Altman has Teondre coming off the bench. First, Altman seems to view him more as a SF; his minutes tend to come when EJ sits, or when we go (even) small(er) and EJ slides to the 4. Second, while our starting unit isn't exactly stacked with prolific scorers, our bench is even worse. We need some scoring punch in reserve, and Teondre kinda/sorta represents that. And lastly... I use 'kinda/sorta' because while I think Sim receives way too much hate here by a bunch of people who don't really know what they're talking about, I think Teondre is overrated in these same circles. Is Teondre athletic? Yeah. Can he drill a trey? Only if he's in the corner, wide open. He's also EXTREMELY timid on the court, and is rarely, if ever, aggressive offensively. To steal a line from some poster on eDuck, he's about as aggressive with the ball as my wheel chair-bound grandmother. Couple those things with terrible defense, and you get a kid coming off the bench.

That's a fair assessment. I guess I'm just not used to such terrible offensive performances and I'm expecting a spark. I just don't see Sim providing that spark. Sure he might be a better defender, but he adds very little to the team offensively.

Which brings me back to.. I can't wait until guys like Brown and Kingma are here to help this squad out.

If we can't come here to express our opinions. One of those pay sites where
you can't read let alone post on the forums. I am lucky enough that people
regularly troll the boards here. Oregon Live doesn't even post Ducks BB related
articles anymore.

I'd rather poke my ears out than listen or read that scumbag Canzano!!

We have every right to express our opinions as long as they are constructive.

I doubt anyone here would post something inflammatory if they didn't care where are
team is going!!

Since when is height a huge factor for a PG defensively? Obviously if you're 5'6 like TP you're going to have some issues but a 6'1 guy? No way. At PG quickness & tenacity are mainly what you need to be a good defender. How many other teams have PGs much bigger than 6'1 - 6'1? One of the better defenders I've seen this year has been Shabezz Napier, the frosh PG for UCONN. The kids about 5'8 & locks fools down. He's incredibley quick & just relentless.

wvduck34 wrote:If we can't come here to express our opinions. One of those pay sites where
you can't read let alone post on the forums. I am lucky enough that people
regularly troll the boards here. Oregon Live doesn't even post Ducks BB related
articles anymore.

I'd rather poke my ears out than listen or read that scumbag Canzano!!

We have every right to express our opinions as long as they are constructive.

I doubt anyone here would post something inflammatory if they didn't care where are
team is going!!

You notice that Canzano doesn't give a lick about the hoops team? Right now he would be writing to no one. If he scolded the hoops team on how bad they are, everyone would just agree with him and it would be a pointless article, then Canzano would be out of a job.

The same thing would happen if the football team declined into late 70's-early 80's status again (won't happen). In that case, Canzano would be reduced to writing about the Blazers, because there would be no interest in the team anymore.