Ducks Attack Message Board Forum

I think you're overplaying the "Dame holding the team hostage" card. It isn't his fault that the entire NBA media is fixated on him leaving for a bigger market where they can leverage him for more ratings and $$$. He's been refreshingly honest about his desires to remain in Portland but has also been realistic about his expectations -- and, if we're honest, his expectations reflect those of most of the fan base. Most of us are tired of undersized guards, B-plan (and undersized) forwards, and GMs who won't fix roster issues that are so clearly broken. Dame has been remarkably patient given the circumstances. Seriously, compare him with any other superstars who've been unhappier in better situations.

Cronin also said in his presser that he hopes Dame stays and retires as a Blazer. He also said the team will keep exploring trades in hopes of keeping him. He appeared to mean that. I mean, hours before choosing Scoot, Cronin basically tried to trade him to Brooklyn for Bridges. Don't fool yourself into thinking he wouldn't take that deal today if Brooklyn changed its mind.

You could hear the stress in Cronin's voice. He was not enjoying himself last night. Yes, he had an extremely good draft -- I heard one pundit say Portland's draft was the NBA's best -- but he's not dumb. He understands the cost and weight of his actions.

All of this tells me Dame still has plenty of sway over whatever happens next -- and that shouldn't surprise anyone. He's a top-3 Blazer and a top-75 NBA great. He's an amazing leader, teammate, community contributor, all the things. Zero drama (other than what outside pundits create for him) and he's actually a good person & role model. Stays out of trouble, leads by example. Literally all the things you'd want short of being a few inches taller.

That, and Jodi must know that keeping Dame is huge from a business perspective. He keeps eyes on the screen, butts in the seats, and cash to the eshops. The Blazers have spent a decade making Dame their identity and to break that brand (trust) with fans probably wouldn't be ideal for a team that will likely be up for sale after upcoming TV negotiations.

Is the Dame era over though? Probably. It's really hard to see a viable path forward with Dame and Scoot, just like it was with Dame & CJ and Dame & Ant. The problem with Dame/CJ v3 is simply size... just too small. I don't care if Scoot is a better defender than CJ and Ant, they're just too small and smaller guys can always be abused.

I'm sure Cronin will make a move or two (Anfernee really needs to go) to bolster the front court and perhaps bring some badly needed balance to the roster. I also wouldn't be shocked to see Dame play through this season. At a certain point, though, either Dame or Scoot will need to go for the betterment of them both. But Dame wants a shot at winning while he still has superstar powers, and that makes him the logical choice to be moved.

That said, I'd bet a few beers that we won't hear huge public demands, we won't see Dame pouting or sitting out, we won't see him half-assing it in games, etc. That's just not how he rolls. I'm also pretty sure the organization will genuinely work as thanks for all he's done for the franchise.

Well looks like the blazers might actually do the prudent thing here and put the future of the organization before an individual player’s wants.

I didn’t grow up a blazer fan and haven’t been able to jump on the bandwagon of a organization that seems dead set on self-destruction, but this could be a a fun era for the blazers. Might actually have to become a blazer fan.

pezsez1 wrote:Literally all the things you'd want short of being a few inches taller.

Dame is 6'2" with a 6'8" wingspan. His defensive short-comings have absolutely nothing to do with his size which has always been one of the things that bothered me the most about both him and CJ.

Scoot is 6'2.5" with a 6'9" wingspan and is viewed as a plus defender once he acclimates to the league.

Defense is almost entirely effort so having to carry the load on offense for 36 mpg isn't the most effective use of his skillset as he ages.

For Dame's sake, I really hope he buys into playing off-ball and fewer reg season minutes so he can give more on the other end of the court.

For Dame's sake, I really hope he buys into playing off-ball and fewer reg season minutes so he can give more on the other end of the court.

I'd love to see them try this, but I disagree about size being an issue. Size matters in NBA basketball, and increasingly so as the best teams get longer and taller. Players like Dame & Ant can defend guys as hard as they want, but a 6-8 forward will always be able to shoot or drive over the top of a 6-2 guard. Having one undersized guard isn't an issue, but having your starting guards AND your key reserve all be undersized (which has been the case for years now) is a massive problem.

That, and Sharpe really needs to be our starting SG. He isn't a small forward. It's time to stop the three-guard lineup nonsense and finally field a real roster, even if that means letting go of Dame. I could see Scoot coming in as sixth man and playing alongside Dame for bits and pieces, but that would be a real waste to burn Pick 3 on a bench player.

pezsez1 wrote:

For Dame's sake, I really hope he buys into playing off-ball and fewer reg season minutes so he can give more on the other end of the court.

I'd love to see them try this, but I disagree about size being an issue. Size matters in NBA basketball, and increasingly so as the best teams get longer and taller. Players like Dame & Ant can defend guys as hard as they want, but a 6-8 forward will always be able to shoot or drive over the top of a 6-2 guard. Having one undersized guard isn't an issue, but having your starting guards AND your key reserve all be undersized (which has been the case for years now) is a massive problem.

That, and Sharpe really needs to be our starting SG. He isn't a small forward. It's time to stop the three-guard lineup nonsense and finally field a real roster, even if that means letting go of Dame. I could see Scoot coming in as sixth man and playing alongside Dame for bits and pieces, but that would be a real waste to burn Pick 3 on a bench player.

Pez that's a dumb argument to say that Dame or Scoot would be defending the Point Forwards of the league. Typically those rosters also feature actual guards too, to say nothing of the absurdity of what players like Pat Beverly have done to make a career in the league and how the obvious need now is to trade Ant and sign another quality Forward.

Further, if you believe Sharpe has to start this year then I think you have to acknowledge the need to trade Dame regardless of who they picked at #3.

The single best chance of competing for Lillard comes with Sharpe winning 6th man of the year while he spends half his minutes working against the 2nd unit. NOT forcing CJ into that 6th man role was the single biggest impediment to success with Lillard and right now Sharpe will get torched on the defensive end and be less effective on offense if we force those minutes on him now. I think he'll be far more effective off the bench early and closing late.

Now the team has a super long defensive minded SG who shot a career high 38percent who is the ideal fit to start 6-7 minutes of each half next to Dame to keep defense a priority while letting the young flamethrower get on a roll against weaker 2nd units.

A Dame/Thybulle and Scoot/Sharpe pairing eats all 96 backcourt minutes with Sharpe/Thybulle playing about 12 combined at SF. Scoot can still get 24 mpg early in the year which again, should have major consequences end of season for Dame and his health/energy.

Nothing about that Guard back court represents a problem you addressed since you're talking about a problem at Forward. 12 minutes a night with SS/MT is hardly going back to the 3 guard days unless they don't move Ant.

I blame Cronin for signing Lillard to that insane extension, as well as creating contracts with Ant and Nurk that are now weighing the team down. Beyond this, I think he has done a pretty good job after inheriting a tough situation. He got out of the McCollum contract and was able to use those assets to create a couple of first-round draft picks, one of which he traded for Jerami Grant, and the other he used last night. I didn't expect a magic trade to appear where some team took Portland's garbage and traded an All-Star in exchange. The reports coming out about what was being offered for #3 only confirm that a trade would not have transformed the Blazers into contenders. The way this all unfolded, I don't think Cronin really had a choice. He HAD to pick Scoot, and now he pretty much has to get rid of Lillard. Hopefully he comes to this realization soon. The longer he waits, the less likely it is that another team will give him anything for the privilege of taking on Lillard's bloated deal.

Unlike Pez, I don't think the team owes Lillard anything; he has been overpaid almost his entire career, and his own contract stood in the way of team success. Some fans fell in love with Lillard and didn't care that the team never won. For everyone else, it's been a decade-long slog with very few bright spots. Possibly the worst decade in franchise history in terms of team performance, rivaled only by the Z-bo, Brandon Roy years (e.g. the 'JailBlazers' era). Hopefully this draft and the following decisions signal an exit from the years-long rut. If I were Cronin, I would not try to sign Jerami Grant. I'd wait to see what was left after the first round of crazy contracts in free agency happened, and hope to pick up a post player or two on a good deal. Then I would use this year to break Scoot in and either trade Lillard by the deadline, or for sure by next summer. Of course, I would also be listening to offers now, since I don't expect Lillard to respond well to these events. If he was whining in the media before, imagine what all of us are in store for in the coming weeks.

Lillard is basically a great player, who will be remembered like Fouts, Marino, Dom Wilkins and plenty of other stars that couldn't win in the playoffs. He will be remembered fondly, but no one the franchise owes anything to, because at the end of the day it’s about W, not stats.

Pez that's a dumb argument to say that Dame or Scoot would be defending the Point Forwards of the league.

Didn't read a word beyond this because I never said any such thing. Of course they won't be assigned to guard forwards. But you do know that ends up happening in games, right? Or that there are taller guards who can pretty easily shoot over them, right?

Come on, man. You can do better.

Unlike Pez, I don't think the team owes Lillard anything

Yes, I definitely believe the team deserves to treat Lillard with respect just as Lillard has bent over backward to treat the organization with respect. Not only is that the right thing to do, but it's also good business. Nobody wants to work for employers that treat their employees like meat. This isn't any different. The Blazers front office is already kind of in shambles and Cronin would be silly to torch any credibility he might have by completely ignoring the guy who is most responsible for any success the Blazers have had over the past decade.

Being a top-tier business (or franchise) doesn't happen in a vacuum. Relationships matter. Lillard has shown this countless times by refusing to throw Portland under the bus when prodded by the national media. The Blazers front office should return the favor.

magic have a ton of young talent... why can't we get one of their young guys + pick(s) for Lillard? Seems like it'd be pretty easy to pull off.

At this point, take what you can get with Lillard. Fultz/Carter for Lillard or switch out one of those guys with picks.

dd10snoop28 wrote:magic have a ton of young talent... why can't we get one of their young guys + pick(s) for Lillard? Seems like it'd be pretty easy to pull off.

At this point, take what you can get with Lillard. Fultz/Carter for Lillard or switch out one of those guys with picks.

Why? Because Lillard would refuse to be traded to the magic.

I have no idea what all that mutual respect post was about. I'm saying I don't think the Blazers owe it to Lillard to continue working on his timeline. He needs to conform to team goals, or he needs to move on down the road. Of course he has shown respect for the organization - they gave in to his every demand since he was signing his first non-rookie deal. I still think Cronin is planning to do stupid stuff to maintain the 'build around Lillard' failed strategy, but I don't think he should. It isn't about Lillard; it's about the Blazers and trying to win in the playoffs. The Blazers are going to be our team long after Lillard has taken his millions and gone.

Unlike Pez, I don't think the team owes Lillard anything

That's what you said.

I disagree. If Dame decides he wants to leave -- which doesn't appear to be what Cronin wants -- then I think the team should do its best to accomodate him. Lillard has treated the team with respect and the team should react in kind.

Even if you don't think the team should treat him (or anyone, by extension) with respect, you have to understand that it's at least good business (and in our interests) to do so.

buckmarkduck wrote:

dd10snoop28 wrote:magic have a ton of young talent... why can't we get one of their young guys + pick(s) for Lillard? Seems like it'd be pretty easy to pull off.

At this point, take what you can get with Lillard. Fultz/Carter for Lillard or switch out one of those guys with picks.

Why? Because Lillard would refuse to be traded to the magic.

I don't see why. They have the cap + pieces to trade for Lillard + another star and still have a lot of nice depth.

Lillard chances of winning a championship go up 10x with Magic compared to us.

I don't think Lillard has a no-trade clause, so in theory we could send him anywhere. Cronin wouldn't do that, though -- that's generally not what happens when NBA superstars request trades, especially when they're not dicks about it.

That said, I'm not yet convinced that Cronin would trade Dame unless Dame asked him to. Dame is heavily invested in the community, his family is here, he just built a new house here, and clearly he loves it here. So even though the basketball part of me can't really see a viable Dame/Scoot tandem (it should be Dame/Scoot and Sharpe) I could also see Dame thinking things over and deciding to stay put regardless.

That's when Cronin would really be tested. He already struggles to make trades. How would he do making a trade against his star player's wishes? I don't think he'd handle it well even if he managed to do something.