Ducks Attack Message Board Forum

He looks like kinda like Paysinger when he came out of HS tall and skinny with great speed but not a big time recruit. I always say if we are going to take a sleeper I hope he has speed and a 4.4 and 6'4 he has it. Not to compare him to Crabtree but remember he was a 2* QB coming out of HS and Texas Tech took a chance.

I love when these threads turn into pissing matches.


Anyway, I'm excited about this recruit......he's got speed, which is what we need.

fpsduck wrote:I love when these threads turn into pissing matches.


Anyway, I'm excited about this recruit......he's got speed, which is what we need.

x2

More thinking and less feelings would be a refreshing change on this board. Every class is going to have its gambles and projects in it. Some turn out well and some don't. Were HS level talent evaluation a science rather than an art, there'd be more room for legitimate disappointment about a PSA's offer list or star count.

Several factors go into getting stars, some of which are of dubious value:

Attending camps to get noticed. (Lots of ultimately mediocre QBs have become ***** "Drill Gods" for these things yet couldn't play a lick in live D-1 action.)
Spamming the world with highlight DVDs (Production values and editing matter.)
Coming from a "football state" (All things being equal in measurables, a guy from Texas will likely "earn" more stars than one from Oregon.)
Being from a "name brand" or big classification prep program (our heralded recruits from DLS turned out to be something less spectacular than they were in HS.)
A stampede mentality (Colvin's got offers, so let's offer him, wait everyone in the world offered him?)
Fetters sees that the guy committed to UW. (Always worth an extra star, two if the guy is a Washingtonian.)
Sometimes, it is about outstanding talent against big time competition, (Which is why my distaste for stupid cap tricks aside, the Army AA game is an interesting exhibition.)

February is the month for facing reality. Some 5 stars pan out. Some 1 stars become invaluable. The only "real" difference between the two is the 5 star was more usually more polished coming out. Sometimes they have already hit their ceiling and sometimes they improve and become first rounders. Sometimes the one and two stars never become more than scout team fodder, but usually they have more potential upside than does the 5 star. It's just the limits of the human potential. A five star looks and hopefully plays like a ready made star. It doesn't mean a driven kid with a lot to work with cannot catch or exceed him because usually the raw material is there but the "craft" and "conditioning" are not. Jeremiah Johnson immediately comes to mind. Started a one star and considered a DB by the services, and by his junior season no one would have traded him for a 5 star prep RB who hadn't proven a thing.

Yes, a program would have extreme difficulty remaining in the annual top 10 living on the talent of one and two star sleepers, but rounding out a class with a few of these guys is far from tragic. Would I rather that our "projects" were at least three stars "stolen" at the last minute from "lesser" BCS programs? Would I rather have a commit list with 4-5 star averages? Sure, but we aren't that kind of draw and maybe we never will be. At Oregon, the coaches are always going to have to take some educated guesses on a few guys who don't have flashy resumes coming out. Without a decent in state recruiting base, we will never have a top to bottom "big name" commit list. There will always be head scratching "who?" offers. We will always have to have a staff who can spin some straw into gold.

I think this kid is a legit QB prospect for our system. Although he is athletic enough to play WR, but I bet we see him on the field as a QB down the road.

[quote="whosyourwally"]im confused as to what it takes to 'earn' 4 or 5 stars. this kid has it all. i mean harper was a 4 star that couldn't pass. this guy is just as fast, taller, and has an arm. he's a 3 sport star, and led a team to a state championship? makes me think the star system is a little too political.

Hellelujah brother! The star system is a qualitative rank of a players ability by some guy who sits at a computer all day and watches video of high school kids. None of these rankings take into account how a player might flourish in a certain system or under a certain coaching style/staff. It's like J. Will said in an interview one time.... "they don't give out stars in college."

woundedknees wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/recruitin ... eason=2009

Regardless of the offers we see, the ESPN site shows his schools of interest to include Iowa, Kansas State, Nebraska, Oregon, and our recent bowl opponent, Oklahoma State.

Not that it diminishes your point in the least, but that last team is Wyoming, not Oklahoma State.

My thoughts on this pickup are:

Max Unger
Jeff Kendall
Mark Lewis
Pat Chung
Jairus Byrd
Walter Thurmond III
TJ Ward
Spencer Paysinger
John Bacon
Sonny Harris

Those are 10 big time contributors to our 10 win season THIS PAST SEASON. All 2-stars or below on scout.

While most of us here realize this, some ought to keep in mind that the only evaluation that matters is the one done by our coaches. Who gives a crap if a kid has no other offers from big time schools. What's with the inferiority complex? Why do we need to be followers? Maybe other schools should raise an eyebrow and say "wow, that kid got an offer from Oregon, maybe we missed one."

Northern Iowa? How about Kurt Warner? There are several star players in the NFL who didn't have any big time offers coming out of HS. Guys who ended up at Troy or UT Chat or Mississippi Valley State.

Star ratings and offers are not tangible. They are based on flimsy, human perception. Subject to bias and ignorance and overall error. Just because the loudest person is screaming "two-star" doesn't mean the quietest person's cry of "4-star" is invalidated. It's not about whose shout can reach a wider audience. It's about reality 3-5 years from now. Why give blind deference to the loudest voice just for being the loudest? Who has a better idea of who Hawkins is/can be as a player, some random scout for Rivals, or Scott Frost? Who has more at stake? What would our opinion of this kid be if Scott Frost built his own database of players and put 4 stars next to Hawkins name and wrote articles highlighting his HS achievements and future potential?

Our biggest recruits of this season are our coaches. They are the ingredient that people often forget about when trying to decide whether they think a kid will succeed or fail. A kid is seven different players at seven different schools. Each path ends at a completely different juncture from the next. Yeah, Daryle Hawkins may never amount to much off in the corner of Iowa playing against the likes of North Dakota State and Western Illinois. Or he may follow in the steps of Kurt Warner. Who knows. So what. He's a Duck now. That right there bumps his value, because the coaching he will receive and competition he will face on a day to day basis is significantly better. If he's up for the challenge and the staff think that much of him, we as fans ought to be excited to have him. These are the guys that make our team special. We don't want to be USC. We want to beat USC. With our guys. They can have Stafon Johnson. We'll take Jeremiah. They can have Taylor Mays. We'll take Pat Chung.

The day that Tajh Boyd or Terrelle Pryor commits to the Ducks is the day I'll be excited about them. Right now, I'm excited about the tremendous young athlete who is excited to play for us. The kid who doesn't expect to be spoon-fed playing time.

EXPOSURE... Through the press, high level traing combines and camps, and starting at a specific position for multiple seasons... All of these contribute to how a kid is looked at by colleges.

For those of you who don't know how the system works, unless a kid has sponsors, those camps and combines are very expensive, and the travel expenses, as well as the room and board, plus participation fees pile up fast. It can be prohibitively expensive for kids whose families are on limited financial status.

A kid who is unable to participate in these things is often overlooked by even local media and coaches as 'not being committed enough.

Some of the most talented soccer players I ever coached received almost not interest from college coaches, while lesser skilled players, who did participate in the combimes and camps, were scouted, and contacted by fairly prestigious programs, because of the exposure they received at camps either run by those same coaches, or that the coaches used as a contact/scouting opportunity.

Kids with no big-time offers?

How about Kevin Boss? Grew up in Corvallis, played college Ball at Western Oregon, and now plays for the New York Giants...

Canard wrote:More thinking and less feelings would be a refreshing change on this board. Every class is going to have its gambles and projects in it. Some turn out well and some don't. Were HS level talent evaluation a science rather than an art, there'd be more room for legitimate disappointment about a PSA's offer list or star count.

Several factors go into getting stars, some of which are of dubious value:

Attending camps to get noticed. (Lots of ultimately mediocre QBs have become ***** "Drill Gods" for these things yet couldn't play a lick in live D-1 action.)
Spamming the world with highlight DVDs (Production values and editing matter.)
Coming from a "football state" (All things being equal in measurables, a guy from Texas will likely "earn" more stars than one from Oregon.)
Being from a "name brand" or big classification prep program (our heralded recruits from DLS turned out to be something less spectacular than they were in HS.)
A stampede mentality (Colvin's got offers, so let's offer him, wait everyone in the world offered him?)
Fetters sees that the guy committed to UW. (Always worth an extra star, two if the guy is a Washingtonian.)
Sometimes, it is about outstanding talent against big time competition, (Which is why my distaste for stupid cap tricks aside, the Army AA game is an interesting exhibition.)

February is the month for facing reality. Some 5 stars pan out. Some 1 stars become invaluable. The only "real" difference between the two is the 5 star was more usually more polished coming out. Sometimes they have already hit their ceiling and sometimes they improve and become first rounders. Sometimes the one and two stars never become more than scout team fodder, but usually they have more potential upside than does the 5 star. It's just the limits of the human potential. A five star looks and hopefully plays like a ready made star. It doesn't mean a driven kid with a lot to work with cannot catch or exceed him because usually the raw material is there but the "craft" and "conditioning" are not. Jeremiah Johnson immediately comes to mind. Started a one star and considered a DB by the services, and by his junior season no one would have traded him for a 5 star prep RB who hadn't proven a thing.

Yes, a program would have extreme difficulty remaining in the annual top 10 living on the talent of one and two star sleepers, but rounding out a class with a few of these guys is far from tragic. Would I rather that our "projects" were at least three stars "stolen" at the last minute from "lesser" BCS programs? Would I rather have a commit list with 4-5 star averages? Sure, but we aren't that kind of draw and maybe we never will be. At Oregon, the coaches are always going to have to take some educated guesses on a few guys who don't have flashy resumes coming out. Without a decent in state recruiting base, we will never have a top to bottom "big name" commit list. There will always be head scratching "who?" offers. We will always have to have a staff who can spin some straw into gold.

Well said canard...

It's amazing how much information is missed because people either don't read what is available through the links,or haven't done any additional research on the net for themselves.

Valid points on both sides. You're not going to win too many championships with just 1 and 2 star recruits and it stinks to see the ducks missing out on a lot of top recruits. Ending the year in the top ten, you expect to have at least a top 25 class and finishing the recruiting year between 35 and 45 doesn't look so good.

But, there are kids out there that develop as athletes later on and I don't think the current ranking systems do very well picking these guys up. If you don't have an amazing sophmore and junior year of high school then your are a 1 or 2 star or less. Frost probably took a lot of time looking at this kid and I hope the coaches see something that was past over.

Go Ducks

BADuck wrote:Valid points on both sides. You're not going to win too many championships with just 1 and 2 star recruits and it stinks to see the ducks missing out on a lot of top recruits. Ending the year in the top ten, you expect to have at least a top 25 class and finishing the recruiting year between 35 and 45 doesn't look so good.

But, there are kids out there that develop as athletes later on and I don't think the current ranking systems do very well picking these guys up. If you don't have an amazing sophmore and junior year of high school then your are a 1 or 2 star or less. Frost probably took a lot of time looking at this kid and I hope the coaches see something that was past over.

Go Ducks

I agree while I'm not going to say he would have been our first choice in June missing on a few guys opens up a spot for guy like this and he should come in with a chip on his shoulder and really come out to prove something! Now its our turn to prove, once again, we can turn a lesser known guy into something...

At this stage in the recruiting year I like this signing because this guy fits a number of needs!

GO DUCKS!!

Add to that, if Hawkins comes in to actually play QB, he most likely will RS, so we automatically have him as a potential quality backup and/or compettition for DT a couple years down the road. By then, he will have gained valuable knowledge of the system and will have had at least 2 years (Hopefully, barring catastrophic injuries to other guys) to develope and polish his game.

Where's the downside?

Seems to me that a week ago, some posters were questioning why we were recruiting a guy like Tajh Boyd,and what if somebody else, like DT transfers to avoid the competition?

Considering the possibilities, this may be a fortuitous commit for the program..

I'm going to guess that if Hawkins sees the field, it won't be as a qb. Remember that we also have Doman who would play qb if we really needed it. Plus, I would imagine that we still take at least 1 qb in the 2010 class, right? Maybe Hawkins can excel on special teams or something.

Remember when Jeff Kendall made that awesome interview on the Jim Rome show?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25eAc5VnWTY

"Jim, if I asked you how many offers the interior O-Line here at Oregon had coming out of High School, you'd probably throw a huge number at me. One thing you've got to consider here, try this on for size Jim, three scholarships, not three each, we're talking three between all three of them. We were the only school, Oregon, that saw something in these guys. That gives us two things, one: we've got coaches that evaluate talent better than any school in the country, and two: you've got guys out there playing with chips on their shoulders. Having countless schools tell you no, you're not good enough to play for them Jim, that sticks with an eighteen-year-old kid. Too bad for the rest of the [Pac-10]."

I like this pick-up, he's got great numbers.