Ducks Attack Message Board Forum

A lot of you guy's wanted to play with the big boys well big boys punt a lot. I'm actually watching Florida vs LSU and its a punting contest. Plus Oregon has had a historically hard time scoring against Cal remember in 2010 Oregon beat Cal 15-7 and they went to the national championship. Also I think Brown and Dye are great and they are competitive enough to lead Oregon to a great season but they are the weakest runningback/quarterback combination Oregon's had with a 5-1 team. That means the other players are playing spectacular. I'll wait to see how Ty Thompson and the young runningbacks like Sean Dollars do before judging Cristobal's offense too harshly. There is only so much play calling you can do with Brown and Dye.

Historicity? Remember all the time we scored a bunch bs them? I hate when fans only focus on the 3 times we lost or had a hard time vs a school.

42-9 2009
43-13 2011
59-17 2012
55-16 2013
58-41 2014
44-24 2015
49-54 2016 L
45-24 2017
42-24 2018






Also “big boy football” doesn’t require have a crap offense. LSU won with a record deserting O. Bama got smart and hired Kiffin and Sark to make their O unbelievable, and Clemson also won with offense. You don’t have to suck on O, to win.

duck023 wrote:A lot of you guy's wanted to play with the big boys well big boys punt a lot. I'm actually watching Florida vs LSU and its a punting contest. Plus Oregon has had a historically hard time scoring against Cal remember in 2010 Oregon beat Cal 15-7 and they went to the national championship. Also I think Brown and Dye are great and they are competitive enough to lead Oregon to a great season but they are the weakest runningback/quarterback combination Oregon's had with a 5-1 team. That means the other players are playing spectacular. I'll wait to see how Ty Thompson and the young runningbacks like Sean Dollars do before judging Cristobal's offense too harshly. There is only so much play calling you can do with Brown and Dye.

Few things: Florida and LSU are not supposed to be Conf Champions or Playoff participants and using Punting as a serious metric is silly.

Using the Cal 2010 game is also silly. It was 1-game in which a team used a sell-out scheme, faked injuries and did everything they could to limit us. That was a one-off type game for us that year and you can live with that because it was an outlier and not a continuation of things from the past.

Finally, if there is only so much play-calling you can do with Brown (not sure why Dye was thrown in that) then it is in fact a condemnation of the Coaches inability to prepare other QBs. Last night Byron Cardwell should have seen about 4 extra carries because Dye was on the field way too much and we can't wear him out playing him so much when there are others in the fold.

duck023 wrote:A lot of you guy's wanted to play with the big boys well big boys punt a lot. I'm actually watching Florida vs LSU and its a punting contest. Plus Oregon has had a historically hard time scoring against Cal remember in 2010 Oregon beat Cal 15-7 and they went to the national championship. Also I think Brown and Dye are great and they are competitive enough to lead Oregon to a great season but they are the weakest running back/quarterback combination Oregon's had with a 5-1 team. That means the other players are playing spectacular. I'll wait to see how Ty Thompson and the young running backs like Sean Dollars do before judging Cristobal's offense too harshly. There is only so much play calling you can do with Brown and Dye.

What I'm wondering is if the receivers are struggling to create separation downfield? Brown has had decent protection, it just seems like he's either not finding anyone open or he isn't seeing opportunities to throw them open - or is afraid to try.

We have good receivers, even if we are young at the position. Micah Pittman and Jalen Redd have both performed well in the past. Devon Williams feels like he could be a star but he's too much of a talker and has gotten some stupid penalties. Kris Hutson has also played well.

Thoughts?

By the way, I think that as long as Cristobol hires good Coordinators and allows them to do their job, he'll be fine. I hope he takes time to study how Nick Saban has allowed his offense to grow since hiring Kiffin and Sarkisian.

SuperDuck wrote:
What I'm wondering is if the receivers are struggling to create separation downfield? Brown has had decent protection, it just seems like he's either not finding anyone open or he isn't seeing opportunities to throw them open - or is afraid to try.

We have good receivers, even if we are young at the position. Micah Pittman and Jalen Redd have both performed well in the past. Devon Williams feels like he could be a star but he's too much of a talker and has gotten some stupid penalties. Kris Hutson has also played well.

Thoughts?

By the way, I think that as long as Cristobol hires good Coordinators and allows them to do their job, he'll be fine. I hope he takes time to study how Nick Saban has allowed his offense to grow since hiring Kiffin and Sarkisian.

When I've seen All-22 angles, its clear AB isn't seeing or anticipating routes with any depth to them as there are plays on the field he leaves alone. He's also had some really bad throws where he's targeting

We are actually old at the WR position with JJ3, Redd and Pittman in front of more talented players like Devon Williams. I'm not ripping on the older guys, but when the QB is not a passer first, it makes it hard for all those WRs to actually be used effectively. (It's also why I want to see Butterfield because I think he's likely our most talented passer).

The problem with our Offense is that it requires a Mariota type QB to be successful because the coaches have decided the QB must be a runner. Defenses are better suited to stopping the Read Option and Running QBs because its so commonplace now.

We need to be running a Pro style Offense, plain and simple. Hell, look at the last play of the game where we struggle to take a simple knee because we never line up under center. (Gee, what was another knock on Herbert coming out - that he didn't work under center and had to do a lot of learning on the fly)

buckmarkduck wrote:Historicity? Remember all the time we scored a bunch bs them? I hate when fans only focus on the 3 times we lost or had a hard time vs a school.

42-9 2009
43-13 2011
59-17 2012
55-16 2013
58-41 2014
44-24 2015
49-54 2016 L
45-24 2017
42-24 2018





Also “big boy football” doesn’t require have a crap offense. LSU won with a record deserting O. Bama got smart and hired Kiffin and Sark to make their O unbelievable, and Clemson also won with offense. You don’t have to suck on O, to win.

In 2008 it was 20-10 and that was an explosive offense. The 2011 game is deceiving because I was at that game and at halftime it was 15-14 with Cal in the lead and people were pretty upset at halftime. Also the 2019 was a Rose Bowl winning team vs a team that wasn't very good and it was only 17-7.

The thing is Oregon's offense isn't terrible but they are more of a ball control offense instead of a scoring offense. Once Ty Thompson or Butterfield improve and take over Oregon's offense will be more of a scoring offense. I think they will play well against UCLA because whenever Brown and Dye are in the underdog role they do very well.

Duck07 wrote:

SuperDuck wrote:
What I'm wondering is if the receivers are struggling to create separation downfield? Brown has had decent protection, it just seems like he's either not finding anyone open or he isn't seeing opportunities to throw them open - or is afraid to try.

We have good receivers, even if we are young at the position. Micah Pittman and Jalen Redd have both performed well in the past. Devon Williams feels like he could be a star but he's too much of a talker and has gotten some stupid penalties. Kris Hutson has also played well.

Thoughts?

By the way, I think that as long as Cristobol hires good Coordinators and allows them to do their job, he'll be fine. I hope he takes time to study how Nick Saban has allowed his offense to grow since hiring Kiffin and Sarkisian.

When I've seen All-22 angles, its clear AB isn't seeing or anticipating routes with any depth to them as there are plays on the field he leaves alone. He's also had some really bad throws where he's targeting

We are actually old at the WR position with JJ3, Redd and Pittman in front of more talented players like Devon Williams. I'm not ripping on the older guys, but when the QB is not a passer first, it makes it hard for all those WRs to actually be used effectively. (It's also why I want to see Butterfield because I think he's likely our most talented passer).

The problem with our Offense is that it requires a Mariota type QB to be successful because the coaches have decided the QB must be a runner. Defenses are better suited to stopping the Read Option and Running QBs because its so commonplace now.

We need to be running a Pro style Offense, plain and simple. Hell, look at the last play of the game where we struggle to take a simple knee because we never line up under center. (Gee, what was another knock on Herbert coming out - that he didn't work under center and had to do a lot of learning on the fly)

I agree AB isn’t anticipating throws but again I was at the game and my friends and I watched the route running carefully and while Brown constantly missed open guys the routes for the first 3 quarters were very safe and similar. It felt like the same passing plays were called quite a few times. In the fourth quarter the playbook opened up more and Brown improved his performance, and those two alone was why Oregon scored 14 points quickly after only scoring 10 in the first 3 quarters.

As for the offense, I agree football has changed, the read option/hurry up offense as well as the power run offenses won’t win national championships. Football today requires a dynamic passing offense and a good running game that supports the passing game, it’s that way in both the NFL and college. The last 5 national champions had dynamic passing offenses with QB’s that were drafted in the top 15 and NFL quality WR’s. I’m worried about Mario and Moorhead cause they’ll run a read/option-power running hybrid that won’t get it done in today’s football.

StevensTechU wrote:Watching our WRs and DBs consistently talk s*** after making routine plays and getting called for penalties has gotten incredibly old. Near the end of the game (Cal), Oregon was incredibly fortunate that Garbers spiked the ball after the first down because 2/3 of Oregon's defense was busy celebrating because they thought they got the 4th down stop so almost no one was lined up. The message shouldn't be complicated - Play Football. These guys are more concerned with "juice" than with football.

WRI?

OregonFan4Life wrote: I agree AB isn’t anticipating throws but again I was at the game and my friends and I watched the route running carefully and while Brown constantly missed open guys the routes for the first 3 quarters were very safe and similar. It felt like the same passing plays were called quite a few times. In the fourth quarter the playbook opened up more and Brown improved his performance, and those two alone was why Oregon scored 14 points quickly after only scoring 10 in the first 3 quarters.

As for the offense, I agree football has changed, the read option/hurry up offense as well as the power run offenses won’t win national championships. Football today requires a dynamic passing offense and a good running game that supports the passing game, it’s that way in both the NFL and college. The last 5 national champions had dynamic passing offenses with QB’s that were drafted in the top 15 and NFL quality WR’s. I’m worried about Mario and Moorhead cause they’ll run a read/option-power running hybrid that won’t get it done in today’s football.

Plays were there, AB doesn't throw to them in the 1st half because he checks down way too much. Even on the early 4th down pass to Dye, he's reticent to give someone a chance. It's 4th down, if you throw an INT it doesn't matter because its 4th down and you're giving it back anyways and you call it an "arm punt." Either way, there were 2 routes open beyond the sticks with another 2 at the line to gain that would have required a touch/timing pass to hit the wr out of their break. Instead he went to Dye with 3 LBs in front of him. So no, the routes were there, he failed to hit them, just like with Redd in the 3rd when the Boos first came down after he threw the crosser behind him.

Nothing play-calling wise changed in the 4th quarter drives except the players played with more decisiveness. The same plays that weren't made in the first 3 quarters were made late.

As to the style of offense we use, I agree. We need to have the QB operate under Center at times and move away from making the QB a runner. (A scrambler, yes. Runner, no.)

Duck07 wrote:

OregonFan4Life wrote: I agree AB isn’t anticipating throws but again I was at the game and my friends and I watched the route running carefully and while Brown constantly missed open guys the routes for the first 3 quarters were very safe and similar. It felt like the same passing plays were called quite a few times. In the fourth quarter the playbook opened up more and Brown improved his performance, and those two alone was why Oregon scored 14 points quickly after only scoring 10 in the first 3 quarters.

As for the offense, I agree football has changed, the read option/hurry up offense as well as the power run offenses won’t win national championships. Football today requires a dynamic passing offense and a good running game that supports the passing game, it’s that way in both the NFL and college. The last 5 national champions had dynamic passing offenses with QB’s that were drafted in the top 15 and NFL quality WR’s. I’m worried about Mario and Moorhead cause they’ll run a read/option-power running hybrid that won’t get it done in today’s football.

Plays were there, AB doesn't throw to them in the 1st half because he checks down way too much. Even on the early 4th down pass to Dye, he's reticent to give someone a chance. It's 4th down, if you throw an INT it doesn't matter because its 4th down and you're giving it back anyways and you call it an "arm punt." Either way, there were 2 routes open beyond the sticks with another 2 at the line to gain that would have required a touch/timing pass to hit the wr out of their break. Instead he went to Dye with 3 LBs in front of him. So no, the routes were there, he failed to hit them, just like with Redd in the 3rd when the Boos first came down after he threw the crosser behind him.

Nothing play-calling wise changed in the 4th quarter drives except the players played with more decisiveness. The same plays that weren't made in the first 3 quarters were made late.

As to the style of offense we use, I agree. We need to have the QB operate under Center at times and move away from making the QB a runner. (A scrambler, yes. Runner, no.)

I’ll trust your observation as you know more about football than I do. I suppose the more better route running with more decisiveness made it seem like the playcalling was better but it was just the players executing more.

This is why I wish they'd have just rolled with Tye Thompson, especially coming out of halftime. I'm glad Brown pulled it together in the 4th and that we won the game, but it seems we just need someone who isn't afraid to push the ball down the field.

I've seen critiques on here (and probably well-reasoned) that Thompson isn't much more accurate than Brown, but I don't think accuracy is the problem. We've had tons of success with QBs who weren't incredibly accurate. (Darron Thomas comes to mind.) Right now, I think we simply need a QB who sees those routes and will choose to make those throws. We need a QB with more confidence, not necessarily more accuracy. Also, Thompson reportedly has a much better arm, so you'd think his downfield accuracy would be better by default.

I don't think we'll have a more sensible opportunity to start Thompson though until we lose a game, so for now it's ride-or-die with AB.

OregonFan4Life wrote: I’ll trust your observation as you know more about football than I do. I suppose the more better route running with more decisiveness made it seem like the playcalling was better but it was just the players executing more.

Here is the specific play I'm talking about. On the post-game show, Haubner and Coach Koby went over this and Koby says the play was supposed to go to Dye as the 2nd read based on a Mike Leach play. Seeing the field and situation I disagree with that based on that it's 4th down and you need a better opportunity and an INT doesn't hurt. Hutson (right hash) scores if that pass is driven into his chest

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pezsez1 wrote:This is why I wish they'd have just rolled with Tye Thompson, especially coming out of halftime. I'm glad Brown pulled it together in the 4th and that we won the game, but it seems we just need someone who isn't afraid to push the ball down the field.

I've seen critiques on here (and probably well-reasoned) that Thompson isn't much more accurate than Brown, but I don't think accuracy is the problem. We've had tons of success with QBs who weren't incredibly accurate. (Darron Thomas comes to mind.) Right now, I think we simply need a QB who sees those routes and will choose to make those throws. We need a QB with more confidence, not necessarily more accuracy. Also, Thompson reportedly has a much better arm, so you'd think his downfield accuracy would be better by default.

I don't think we'll have a more sensible opportunity to start Thompson though until we lose a game, so for now it's ride-or-die with AB.

Honestly based on limited action this year and in the Spring, I want to see Butterfield since he's the better passer and at seemingly going through progressions.

Scrape the QB run plays by and large and focus on using the pass to set up the run against a lighter box or else go all in on the run and put Ashford in.

So if James Franklin turns LSU down do y’all mind if we bring Cristobal down here?

Bud Lee wrote:So if James Franklin turns LSU down do y’all mind if we bring Cristobal down here?

You don't want Billy Napier?