Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Moderators: greenyellow, UOducksTK1

User avatar
Phalanx
Senior
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by Phalanx »

pudgejeff wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:21 pm
Phalanx wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:29 pm Golly, I sure miss this:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/da ... r-BB1lFzOM
Miss Stephen A making s*** up?
What, like this is the first time Lillard has whined about his unhappiness to someone in the media? Has he demanded a meeting with the owner yet? He's a diva, and his act got tired a long time ago. I used to think it would be funny if he lost to the guy he got traded for (wouldn't be the first time Jrue cleaned his clock), but now it seems unlikely that he will even get that far.
User avatar
pudgejeff
Senior
Posts: 4905
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:21 am
GM: Sacramento Kings GM

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by pudgejeff »

Phalanx wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 2:20 pm
pudgejeff wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:21 pm
Phalanx wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:29 pm Golly, I sure miss this:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/da ... r-BB1lFzOM
Miss Stephen A making s*** up?
What, like this is the first time Lillard has whined about his unhappiness to someone in the media? Has he demanded a meeting with the owner yet? He's a diva, and his act got tired a long time ago. I used to think it would be funny if he lost to the guy he got traded for (wouldn't be the first time Jrue cleaned his clock), but now it seems unlikely that he will even get that far.
Don't get me wrong, he's definitely been a whiner. But it was very specifically clarified that Stephen A had no inside or additional knowledge. Just him talking to talk like he does.

To be honest it's one of the things that bother's me the most, when there are plenty of real examples of something and then people site something that is weak and flimsy to try and prove the point or pile on. In the end it just ends up weakening the original argument.
User avatar
Phalanx
Senior
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by Phalanx »

If the Kings can beat the Warriors here, it's going to secure a pretty decent mid-round pick for the Blazers in the first round. As long as Olshey isn't picking, that has to be a positive. Go Kings.
alxtw
Five Star Recruit
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:46 pm

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by alxtw »

I haven't been following college games or g league this year, but been reading analysts write this year's draft is one of the worst in a long time. Is this year's class really that bad? Would suck if its true, being that we will have good draft picks this year.
User avatar
pezsez1
All Pac-12
Posts: 5688
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:30 pm
Location: RIP CITY

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by pezsez1 »

It's "bad" in that there aren't any obvious star talents, but there are plenty of guys who could turn into regular rotation players.

Next year's draft is loaded. I'm hoping everyone has the patience to stay in the tank for one more year.
Willie Taggart is a dick.
User avatar
Duck07
All-American
Posts: 15983
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:36 am
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by Duck07 »

pezsez1 wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:32 pm It's "bad" in that there aren't any obvious star talents, but there are plenty of guys who could turn into regular rotation players.

Next year's draft is loaded. I'm hoping everyone has the patience to stay in the tank for one more year.
Don't worry, Jody is perfectly content for another year of cashing in while putting out a mediocre team with a bottom 5 head coach.

Currently this is the team next year:

PG: Scoot, Brogdan, Banton
SG: Sharpe, Simons, Rupert
SF: Thybulle, Camara
PF: Grant, Walker, Murray
C: Ayton, Williams, Reath

You're likely drafting someone to take a job from a Forward and to be a backup Center with the 2 first rounders and I think you clearly need to move on from Simons and Grant to give the minutes needed for the younger players and also because they are the best chances at earning a decent trade chip. If you can get something for Ayton/Williams you do it as well.

The problem is that nobody wants to give up picks for next year so you either need to scout a fringe lottery team who thinks that Simons/Grant is the piece to get them over the hump and hope they have a terrible season or else you're likely doing a player swap. As it is, Grant is an expensive player with a long contract, Simons contract isn't bad and Brogdan would have value at the deadline as an expiring contract.

I think picking at #5 lets say is going to give them a chance at a Forward to add to the mix that can also play in a lineup focused around Scoot-Sharpe-Camara-Draft Pick and then you can find another backup Center with your Warriors lotto pick unless you move Simons/Brogdan prior to that.

That certainly is a lineup that could give you a chance at one of the prizes of the 25 draft while possibly building a lineup that may actually one day grow up and compete with a competent head coach.
Image
buckmarkduck
All-American
Posts: 10611
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:22 am
Contact:

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by buckmarkduck »

At least we have two lottery picks. Two chances to miss
User avatar
Phalanx
Senior
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by Phalanx »

Normally, I am all for taking the best player available, especially on a bad team. In this case though, it seems like it isn't actually very clear who the best players are, and I think the players sorely need help in the front court. So if they err, I hope it is in that direction.

I have this nagging feeling about the Blazers that there is not a lot of 'coaching up' happening and that the report from Quick a year ago about how most of the players are unmotivated to improve and win is true. I was really disappointed with Simons and Sharpe this year, and also it seems like we need to lower expectations on Scoot. The best Blazers in the future may be the ones yet to be drafted.
User avatar
pezsez1
All Pac-12
Posts: 5688
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:30 pm
Location: RIP CITY

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by pezsez1 »

The best Blazers in the future may be the ones yet to be drafted.
This is my belief as well.

I'm not as down on Scoot as some others, but I also wasn't as high on him to begin with. His season was interrupted by injuries, but he showed improvement after returning from each absence, so there's that. But I'm still not convinced he'll ever be the kind of three-point shooter that undersized guards need to be to make their presence worthwhile. He could be our long-term starter if he dials in his shot, or he could be our elite sixth man (which all great teams need).

My biggest problem with the team right now is looking at this bunch and trying to see who gets max money. I just don't see two guys on this roster yet who should command that much salary. Ayton has been great -- and contenders will need dominant centers to match up with Denver and eventually San Antonio -- but he doesn't stretch the floor with shooting. Scoot has shown promise, but he doesn't stretch the floor, either. You can't have two max players who don't create spacing for everyone else. That's just a non-starter in today's game. Sharpe is uber-talented, but he lost this season to injury/surgery and we still don't really know who he is.

Most elite teams have lengthy elite players -- and most can stretch the floor with shooting. Portland just doesn't have that yet. Ayton and Scoot (and maybe Sharpe) could very well be permanent fixtures in our long-term core, but I'm convinced that we have yet to draft our best player. It needs to be someone in the frontcourt, and (especially if we roll with Scoot) it needs to be someone who's a knockout shooter. At least one of our max contract players MUST be an elite shooter.

I think the biggest dilemma right now is what to do with Ant. The Blazers should have traded him years ago but didn't, and now he's basically in a Lillard-lite situation where he's too good for a tanking team, and too redundant for our lineup, and not many other teams covet small guards, and it's clear he's going to want out of this situation sooner rather than later. I think time will show that waiting so long to move him was a mistake. I'm less worried about Grant's contract because he's a talented & versatile frontcourt player and someone will eventually want him. But small shooting guards are a dime a dozen and I'm not sure we'd get much in return for Simons at this point.
Willie Taggart is a dick.
User avatar
Phalanx
Senior
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by Phalanx »

pezsez1 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:18 am

My biggest problem with the team right now is looking at this bunch and trying to see who gets max money. I just don't see two guys on this roster yet who should command that much salary.
Is there some kind of requirement that I don't know about wherein two guys have to be paid most of the team's cap space? You are right, there is nobody on the Blazers worthy of getting paid 25% of the team's available salary. There hasn't been a player worthy of that kind of money on the Blazers since Clyde Drexler, and he only made 10%. If you pay that much to one guy and he isn't the kind of player that can deliver night in and night out, the team will eventually lose to a better-managed, deeper team. The Blazers paid that much to Lillard, and they lost in the first round every year. Lillard thought it couldn't possibly be because of him, so he demanded a trade, eventually to a team that had very recently won a championship. Guess what? They lost in the first round because Lillard couldn't bring it every night and the other max guy who can bring it every night got injured.

People in Portland remember Lillard for two shots that he made, but the NBA playoffs last a really long time and teams only advance by being consistently good. Lillard has never been up to that task, and most point guards are in the same boat. A team needs an assortment of strong defenders, rebounders, and scorers from inside and outside, and a bench that can keep the pressure on when the starters are out. If you give all the money to one or two guys, there isn't any left for all the necessary tools. Poor Milwaukee fans are finding out what Blazer fans should already know, that guards not named Kobe, Curry or Jordan should not have max contracts.
squintsdd
Sophomore
Posts: 1582
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:39 am

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by squintsdd »

Phalanx wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 10:51 pm
pezsez1 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:18 am

My biggest problem with the team right now is looking at this bunch and trying to see who gets max money. I just don't see two guys on this roster yet who should command that much salary.
Is there some kind of requirement that I don't know about wherein two guys have to be paid most of the team's cap space? You are right, there is nobody on the Blazers worthy of getting paid 25% of the team's available salary. There hasn't been a player worthy of that kind of money on the Blazers since Clyde Drexler, and he only made 10%. If you pay that much to one guy and he isn't the kind of player that can deliver night in and night out, the team will eventually lose to a better-managed, deeper team. The Blazers paid that much to Lillard, and they lost in the first round every year. Lillard thought it couldn't possibly be because of him, so he demanded a trade, eventually to a team that had very recently won a championship. Guess what? They lost in the first round because Lillard couldn't bring it every night and the other max guy who can bring it every night got injured.

People in Portland remember Lillard for two shots that he made, but the NBA playoffs last a really long time and teams only advance by being consistently good. Lillard has never been up to that task, and most point guards are in the same boat. A team needs an assortment of strong defenders, rebounders, and scorers from inside and outside, and a bench that can keep the pressure on when the starters are out. If you give all the money to one or two guys, there isn't any left for all the necessary tools. Poor Milwaukee fans are finding out what Blazer fans should already know, that guards not named Kobe, Curry or Jordan should not have max contracts.
Meh, I'm no Lillard advocate, but you can hardly put his name on this series loss. For the most part he actually played well this series. Injuries really derailed that Milwaukie team and being without their best player the entire series really put the behind. Also, Rivers is arguably one of the most overrated coaches in history. They didn't like their previous coach, but he got results. If i remember right, Milwaukie was below .500 on the season after rivers took over
droop10
Five Star Recruit
Posts: 1061
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:07 am

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by droop10 »

Phalanx wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 10:51 pm
pezsez1 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:18 am

My biggest problem with the team right now is looking at this bunch and trying to see who gets max money. I just don't see two guys on this roster yet who should command that much salary.
Is there some kind of requirement that I don't know about wherein two guys have to be paid most of the team's cap space? You are right, there is nobody on the Blazers worthy of getting paid 25% of the team's available salary. There hasn't been a player worthy of that kind of money on the Blazers since Clyde Drexler, and he only made 10%. If you pay that much to one guy and he isn't the kind of player that can deliver night in and night out, the team will eventually lose to a better-managed, deeper team. The Blazers paid that much to Lillard, and they lost in the first round every year. Lillard thought it couldn't possibly be because of him, so he demanded a trade, eventually to a team that had very recently won a championship. Guess what? They lost in the first round because Lillard couldn't bring it every night and the other max guy who can bring it every night got injured.

People in Portland remember Lillard for two shots that he made, but the NBA playoffs last a really long time and teams only advance by being consistently good. Lillard has never been up to that task, and most point guards are in the same boat. A team needs an assortment of strong defenders, rebounders, and scorers from inside and outside, and a bench that can keep the pressure on when the starters are out. If you give all the money to one or two guys, there isn't any left for all the necessary tools. Poor Milwaukee fans are finding out what Blazer fans should already know, that guards not named Kobe, Curry or Jordan should not have max contracts.
I think the main point is that you won't be legitimately competitive without 2 max level guys. If a guy isn't worth it, absolutely don't pay it, but if there's nobody worth max money on the team, they simply aren't a good team. Yes, any team that loses a top 3 player in the NBA due to injury will likely be bounced from the playoffs in round 1. Name a team that would lose their best player for an entire series and advance.

Looking at the teams that will make the second round this year, the 2 anomalies are the Thunder and Knicks. The Thunder have the best front office in the NBA, and have 1 max guy, and 2-3 guys that will be max guys when their rookie contracts end. They benefitted from their young team maturing at an unusually quick rate. The Knicks lucked into Jalen Brunson. Nobody had any expectation that he would turn into the guy he is today, or he would have easily been signed to a max contract. He definitely will be signing one when the time comes. The Knicks could make the Eastern Conference Finals due to a weak East, but it would be the same argument you had around Lillard and the Blazers when they went to the Western Conference Finals. Assuming they play Boston, it won't be a competitive series. They are definitely searching for a 2nd max guy this offseason.

The only way the Blazers will legitimately be competitive in the future is by hitting on consecutive draft picks and hoping they sign max level contracts when the time comes. Unfortunately for them, this year is a historically weak draft, so they likely won't get much help there. They desperately need Scoot to take a huge leap in the next 1-2 years, or they'll probably be chilling in the lottery for years to come, occasionally sneaking into the play-in game.
User avatar
Phalanx
Senior
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by Phalanx »

squintsdd wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 8:38 am
Meh, I'm no Lillard advocate, but you can hardly put his name on this series loss. For the most part he actually played well this series. Injuries really derailed that Milwaukie team and being without their best player the entire series really put the behind. Also, Rivers is arguably one of the most overrated coaches in history. They didn't like their previous coach, but he got results. If i remember right, Milwaukie was below .500 on the season after rivers took over
It's just amazing to me how this man can keep eluding responsibility for losing wherever he goes, despite always sucking up a large chunk of his team's resources. If you get paid that much, you are SUPPOSED to play well, and on both ends of the court. Lillard is a complete spectator on defense. It's comical watching him sit there and let the guy with the ball go right by him over and over and then as the guy is scoring, Lillard is pointing directions to teammates. Whenever the other team is on a fast break and sees him loping toward the basket, they call an alley-oop on his side and get two free points. Seriously, Obi Toppin did this multiple times last night as Lillard watched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxOCCPClq0w

The only defensive effort he made last night was when he tried to take the ball away from Halliburton after the Pacers had score midway through the third quarter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdjHF4hmhoA

If a guy refuses to play defense, he should not be making max money. He should take a pay cut so that the team can afford to pay for some good defenders around him. Players like Lillard and James Harden are fools gold, they only play one end of the court and whatever good they do is completely canceled out when they let their man go to the other end and score. They get voted 'Top 75 all time' but have no championships between them. A good GM can spot the glaring weakness and avoids paying players like them more than they are worth.
User avatar
pezsez1
All Pac-12
Posts: 5688
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:30 pm
Location: RIP CITY

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by pezsez1 »

No. 7 pick! Pop that bubbly.

Had to laugh at ESPN's mock draft that has us picking ANOTHER PG. :lol:

What a time to be alive!
Willie Taggart is a dick.
User avatar
nogerO
Senior
Posts: 4074
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:48 pm
Location: Deep in the heart of the SEC

Re: Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

Post by nogerO »

pezsez1 wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 11:23 pm No. 7 pick! Pop that bubbly.

Had to laugh at ESPN's mock draft that has us picking ANOTHER PG. :lol:

What a time to be alive!
Should have been no worse than #5 pick by final standings. Only team popping any bubbly is Atlanta.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift." - Steve Prefontaine
Post Reply