Blazers 2023-2024 Thread

[greenyellow]

So Chris Paul is headed from Washington to GS in exchange for Jordan Poole.

[dthomas=ddixon]

Dame's inclusion on the Top 75 list was set by current & former players, team execs, media members, and coaches -- folks who know far more about basketball than any of us.

We're all entitled to our personal opinions, but Dame made that list and it is what it is.

I just don’t see the relevance of his inclusion on an all time list to this discussion. No one, other than maybe Phalanx, is arguing that Lillard isn’t a great player because that isn’t the issue. It’s the rest of the team that sucks, and giving away a player like Scoot, if he does indeed fall to 3, just to cobble together a roster that’ll get bounced in the first round while pretending you’re making a run at a championship would be very shortsighted.

[pezsez1]

It’s the rest of the team that sucks, and giving away a player like Scoot, if he does indeed fall to 3, just to cobble together a roster that’ll get bounced in the first round while pretending you’re making a run at a championship would be very shortsighted.

That's not what will happen.

Remember, this team was on the doorstep of the play-in last season before deciding to tank, and that's despite a season-long string of injuries to Dame, Nurk, Little, Winslow and other key rotation players. This team is likely a playoff team as-is when healthy. Add one or two pieces and it could easily be a top-4 team in the west.

EDIT: Also keep in mind that Portland's biggest issue isn't a lack of talent -- it's that we're too small and our talent doesn't fit well together. This draft (and our assets) gives us the opportunity to address that without blowing up the entire roster.

The Lakers had the same problem last year regarding pieces that didn't fit, and they made some low-key trades at the all-star break and then nearly reached the NBA finals. Everyone said they had no shot at the finals and that they were doomed to mediocrity. Then they made a few smart moves and proved everyone wrong. Yes, they got swept, but they had a chance to win those games and they could have advanced.

Blazers fans need to stop being scared of risk. It's always easier to punt, but if the opportunity to go for it is there, then just go for it. Tank and rebuild later.

[Phalanx]

Lillard is a good player that I would like better if he was paid more appropriately, not as some 'generational superstar' but as a strong contributor to a team effort. This idea that the Blazers need to not only pay him a large percentage of the available funds for filling out a team, but also mortgage the team's future to accommodate his post-peak timeline is just lunacy if you are a fan of the Blazers pre and post-Lillard. He isn't nearly as irreplaceable as his doting fans like Pez make him out to be. He has never proven that he can be the leader of anything other than a perennial first-round patsy. Everything that Pez wants to happen has already been tried for a number of years now, and it didn't work.

The golden opportunity is not in Lillard suddenly improving his game and taking his team further than they went before. It's in bringing in some strong young players that can grow together into a team that actually makes some noise. The way it stands now, this is the ONLY way they are going to win. You can't trade for a $40 million per year player when you are already up against the tax. You have to have some strong contributors on rookie deals to compensate for Lillard's crazy contract.

[pezsez1]

So, let me get this straight, Phalanx: You think the ONLY way to win is to ship off an all-time great NBA player (Damian Lillard) -- who is objectively one of the franchise's top three players ever -- and launch a youth movement around a 19-year-old who can't yet shoot and Shaedon Sharpe, who we've only seen in meaningful minutes during like a month of tanking?

You know that's bananas, right?

This whole "debate" will be moot if Cronin can't swing a trade and Lillard asks for an exit -- and that's a very likely outcome. And that's fine, because we'll eventually rebuild and win again. (Whether that's in five years, 10 years, or 15 years is anyone's guess.) But dude, you don't need to crutch your lust for a rebuild by kicking dirt on Dame. Makes you look like a casual.

Get through tonight making the best possible pick while looking for the best possible deals to help Dame. If those deals aren't there, then take the next step. This isn't hard.

[Phalanx]

Actually, Pez, I said that the only way to win WITH Lillard and his insane contract would be to have key contributors on rookie contracts (did you even read the post before rushing to call me bananas?). The Blazers have a serious math issue that has kept them from filling out a team for years now, and Lillard has always contributed to that problem.

If they trade Lillard, it opens up several possibilities for winning, since room for free agents or uneven trades would open up in that case (assuming the Lillard trade didn't bring back equal salary). But that isn't the scenario I was talking about in the post above, because the Blazers have apparently made it clear they will not entertain Lillard trade offers.

[pezsez1]

Well, if Dame doesn't ask for a trade, then that's exactly what might happen over the next couple years. And I agree, that is a path toward victory, the Blazers just need a lot of luck on their side. It would definitely be more likely if we could draft Miller. That kind of player is far more difficult to find than smaller guards.

I do think Dame asking for a trade is a real possibility. I don't think we'll hear about it though until a deal is already in the works. His relationship with the organization is likely solid enough that he wouldn't need to take any demands public. Kind of like the CJ trade, there was no bad blood and CJ played hard until his last game even knowing the trade was coming.

Everything that Pez wants to happen has already been tried for a number of years now, and it didn't work.

Have to address this quickly, because it's massively wrong. Dame has spent the past decade with a flawed Olshey-era roster built most of players barely taller than I am (or shorter, in some cases). Meanwhile, the NBA has shifted toward length and positionless basketball. The one season when Dame reached the WCF was when he actually had more than one excellent shooter to pass off to and a little bit of length on D.

All I want is for the (first, second, or third)-best Blazer of all time to have a roster that isn't massively flawed to see what he might do with it. That may or may not happen tonight or by the trade deadline. If it doesn't, then yeah, I hope everyone can come together, rip off the bandaid, and start over.

[Phalanx]

I assume that when the Blazers leaked that they were no longer listening to trade offers involving Lillard that they were confident he was on some level on board with using pick 3 on Scoot (if that scenario played out), and would not immediately ask for a trade if it happened. Either that, or he knows they plan on trading the pick today. Anyway, I could personally care less if he asks for a trade, other than it might diminish his market value. I prefer winning to keeping old players, and I don't think it will be hard to replace Lillard in terms of winning. I know you like to pretend that Lillard's record up to now is irrelevant, but it isn't. He didn't win anything, and that will always be a large part of his legacy in Portland.

[pezsez1]

Phalanx, by your definition, only a relative handful of Blazers have ever won in Portland.

It's ok though, I get what you're trying to say. You really hate Dame and you think Neil Olshey was a fantastic GM.

[Phalanx]

It's almost like I am Trump and being quoted by the New York Times.

Let's just see how it plays out, Pez. Hopefully Cronin doesn't do something stupid. I'll be happy if he just picks the guy that Charlotte doesn't pick. I'd also like to keep the pick at 23, but that may be asking too much.

[Duck07]

I completely understand Phalanx's point re: Dame and how to actually build a complete roster around him. It's why the idea of trading Sharpe is so utterly mind-boggling because the most likely scenario where Dame wins in Portland revolves around Sharpe's turning into Kobe-lite on a cheap contract.

The more expensive players you have around Dame on the roster, the harder it is to build a true 9 man rotation. Otherwise you're banking on a roll of the dice type move with Zion where if everything were to fall right this year or next, that you might have some success.

[alxtw]

Not so bullish on Brandon Miller. If you look at his games (ex-post season and the murder case) against ranked opponents, close games (within ten points) and loses, his shooting is atrocious and played terribly. Only exception was the game against Gonzaga.

[Phalanx]

Please don't announce a trade....

[Phalanx]

Scoot it is.

[pezsez1]

Let's just see how it plays out, Pez. Hopefully Cronin doesn't do something stupid.

Agreed.

Also, Sharpe should be Portland's only untouchable player.