Perceived Weakness On the Dline

[bucketz4]

I made a post on the Sam Kamp thread that got me fired up and had my brain wheels turning. My initial thoughts were that although we will be young and unproven at the DT spot, we are by no means lacking in size or talent.

The common misconception about the DT posistion seems to be that you need to be 320-330 lbs and clog 2 gaps. Sure there are freaks of nature like Ngata or Suh who are able to do this but that type of athlete is few and far between. Using the 5 DT's (besides Haloti) who made the Pro Bowl as the best at their position in the NFL, I calculated their average weight and found it to be 301.8 lbs. This included Vince Wilfork weighing in at 325 lbs as well as Justin Smith and Darnell Dockett who weighed 285 and 290 respectively. Now with this knowledge, lets take a look at the projected Duck DT's for next year...

Taking the top 4 returning DT's (Ricky, Wade, Remington and Hart) along with Ebert and calculating their average weight, I came up with 283.2. Keep in mind, the weights were taken from the 2010 roster and 3 of these guys are freshman or redshirt freshman. Assuming a minimal weight gain of around 5 lbs for each guy, the average weight bumps to almost 290. This seems more than possible considering the age and frame of the young guys combined with the nutrition and training all of these guys will receive.

Now I am not ignorant to the fact that 10lbs can make a big difference but lets keep in mind that these weights were coming from Pro Bowl DT's. Another important thing to keep in mind is that all of the Pro Bowl DT's came from 3-4 schemes, something that the Ducks have gravitated more and more towards.

So what does all of this mean? The DT's we will line up next year won't be breaking any scales anytime soon. What we will have are some good sized kids who on average will be much bigger than Brandon Bair and Zac Clark. If those guys were good enough to get us to the National Championship and lose on a last second field goal, then I will take my chances with the guys we have.

All of that being said, is DT a major target area for next years class? Absolutely, as one more year of near misses could put us in big trouble. Was striking out on a few guys this year a back breaker? No way, especially for a coach like Chip who values his scholarships. After all, having a few extra spaces is why we were able to take guys like Masoli and Marcus Davis.

[wvduck34]

I think 99.9% of the problem is the fact that everyone compared Oregon to Auburn and most of the broadcaster's said, "Oregon doesn't have the size that SEC teams do. Oh yeah, well 'no sh!t,' I said. Next you're going to tell me that our offense is dependent on a quality QB or RB. The way Nick Fairly pushed our defensive lineman around showed that we need bigger tackles and guards, not defensive ends or a Curly Culp NT (there's a name from the past.) We are suddenly struck by an irrational fear.

Chip Kelly pulled players from California, Texas, Michigan, Hawaii, Iowa and Florida. That is quite a wide area to recruit, obviously we aren't going to get everybody!! We have about the full amount of amount of scholarships filled (maybe around two left) and we could still a late signee (Randall, if he gets his scores, otherwise we will have to wait) or a midterm enrollment.

Considering the level of success we have had, I think deserves all the time to recruit a full squad of his own players. We are touching a scab without letting it heal correctly. We are talking apples and oranges. The question should be about who we got and not who we didn't. If you think like that it will drive you CRAZY!!

[GrandpaDuck]

Our 2 second string DT's in that game Ricky and Wade averaged more than the Auburn DTs.

But they were 2nd string because they were less effective than the 2 light guys in front of them. Our D-Line played effective football and contained Cam.

This year if Wade and Ricky start as most expect you have SEC weight DTs but we would be extremely lucky if they are even close to as effective this year as the two light guys they are replacing.

[GoDucksIn09]

While I appreciate the optimism about our D line I am one of many that feel we need to have a definite upgrade in it. Whether as duck fans we like it or not.. the SEC does have a right to brag about its streak of national champions.. and if we want to be able to beat them we need to address our own weaknesses and the D line is probably our biggest need. When it comes to Auburn it was pretty clear their defensive line was bigger and faster and its a mold that we need to strive for. I am not sure why we keep missing out on them.. it seems like some would see the need and see fact would get early playing time.. and jump at the chance.. but it is not happening. I hope that the defensive line coaches push extremely hard for the top notch d line players because we defnitely in my estimation need improvement.

[dgjducks]

The percieved weakness is the Easley, Simmons scenerio. Good player, looks like will be a Duck,
plays in allstar game, blows up. Bye- bye

[wvduck34]

Ummm, I am sorry but is there anything positive coming out of this discussion. Something at least objective about this topic??

[Duck07]

I made a post on the Sam Kamp thread that got me fired up and had my brain wheels turning. My initial thoughts were that although we will be young and unproven at the DT spot, we are by no means lacking in size or talent.

The common misconception about the DT posistion seems to be that you need to be 320-330 lbs and clog 2 gaps. Sure there are freaks of nature like Ngata or Suh who are able to do this but that type of athlete is few and far between. Using the 5 DT's (besides Haloti) who made the Pro Bowl as the best at their position in the NFL, I calculated their average weight and found it to be 301.8 lbs. This included Vince Wilfork weighing in at 325 lbs as well as Justin Smith and Darnell Dockett who weighed 285 and 290 respectively. Now with this knowledge, lets take a look at the projected Duck DT's for next year...

I'm sorry, but Suh is a single gap DT (think warren sapp), and trying to use weight as a reference point for this is patently off base - each of those teams runs different systems. You included Smith and Dockett, both DL (Smith is a 34 End, not at DT) but both play in 34s. It is impossible to try and compare 34 lineman to our system of 43/42 with Rowe occasionally playing a stand-up end (which is different than playing as a 34 rush lb)

Taking the top 4 returning DT's (Ricky, Wade, Remington and Hart) along with Ebert and calculating their average weight, I came up with 283.2. Keep in mind, the weights were taken from the 2010 roster and 3 of these guys are freshman or redshirt freshman. Assuming a minimal weight gain of around 5 lbs for each guy, the average weight bumps to almost 290. This seems more than possible considering the age and frame of the young guys combined with the nutrition and training all of these guys will receive.

Now I am not ignorant to the fact that 10lbs can make a big difference but lets keep in mind that these weights were coming from Pro Bowl DT's. Another important thing to keep in mind is that all of the Pro Bowl DT's came from 3-4 schemes, something that the Ducks have gravitated more and more towards.

10lbs does not make a difference. At a 10lb weight difference, pad level and footwork override any weight difference. Again, we do not run a 34 D and if you are going to use 34 Ds, you need to realize that you use 1 Nose Tackle playing 2 gap and you generally convert an athletic DT or oversized DE to play the two End positions.

So what does all of this mean? The DT's we will line up next year won't be breaking any scales anytime soon. What we will have are some good sized kids who on average will be much bigger than Brandon Bair and Zac Clark. If those guys were good enough to get us to the National Championship and lose on a last second field goal, then I will take my chances with the guys we have.

All of that being said, is DT a major target area for next years class? Absolutely, as one more year of near misses could put us in big trouble. Was striking out on a few guys this year a back breaker? No way, especially for a coach like Chip who values his scholarships. After all, having a few extra spaces is why we were able to take guys like Masoli and Marcus Davis.

Overall though I agree with your point that we are clearly not as weak up the middle as some make us out to be. We'd always love to sign 4/5* DTs that can qualify each year, and in a few years bringing in top ranked DL may be as commonplace for us bringing in top ranked RBs/DBs. For now though, everyone needs to realize that we have no reason to be freaked out about our DTs

[PDXShogun]

Apparently "The great DT panic of 2011" continues... When it comes to defensive linemen this board is like the local news broadcast when snow is in the forecast.


We currently have 5 DT's on scholarship (the same total that saw action this year), all with at least two years of eligibility left. With experience Heimuli can be a future star and the coaching staff believes that Hart is a Brandon Bair clone. Add in Keliikipi who actually played more than either of them this year. Ebert is a 4* transfer who will be here for spring and Remington spent a year in the system redshirting and will contribute this season.

This group has a higher ceiling than the guys who just left and they did just fine. The only problem is inexperience but a freshmen, no matter how talented, would not have made a difference in that regard.

Next recruiting cycle we'll definitely need a couple to re-stock for the future, but for the for the next two seasons we're actually in very good shape on the interior line.

[AugustDuck]

Apparently "The great DT panic of 2011" continues... When it comes to defensive linemen this board is like the local news broadcast when snow is in the forecast.


We currently have 5 DT's on scholarship (the same total that saw action this year), all with at least two years of eligibility left. With experience Heimuli can be a future star and the coaching staff believes that Hart is a Brandon Bair clone. Add in Keliikipi who actually played more than either of them this year. Ebert is a 4* transfer who will be here for spring and Remington spent a year in the system redshirting and will contribute this season.

This group has a higher ceiling than the guys who just left and they did just fine. The only problem is inexperience but a freshmen, no matter how talented, would not have made a difference in that regard.

Next recruiting cycle we'll definitely need a couple to re-stock for the future, but for the for the next two seasons we're actually in very good shape on the interior line.

I agree that we are in pretty good shape for the next couple of seasons...as long as we do not have significant/multiple injuries. It would be nice to have a couple more guys on schollie.

[buckmarkduck]

Pretty sure the 2 guys who will be starting this year are both 4*, Ricky is ups to 318 and Ebert is 285 but says he would like to be 290 by fall. The biggest need for our DL will be replacing Rowe, and I'm sure the next guy playing his spot will be bigger and faster than Rowe and able to stand toe to toe with the Cam Newtons of the world. Our coaches know what they are doing, relax next years starters will be a 3*, 4*, 4* and a 5*

[PDXShogun]

The biggest need for our DL will be replacing Rowe, and I'm sure the next guy playing his spot will be bigger and faster than Rowe and able to stand toe to toe with the Cam Newtons of the world.

That guy is already on our roster, his name is Colt Lyerla.

[Boom]

The biggest need for our DL will be replacing Rowe, and I'm sure the next guy playing his spot will be bigger and faster than Rowe and able to stand toe to toe with the Cam Newtons of the world.

That guy is already on our roster, his name is Colt Lyerla.

I hope so...

Chip has stated that he's going to get first shot on offense along with French & DAT

Everyone wants to play on Chips offense

If we want a top 10 defense we need these type of kids to line up on D

[buckmarkduck]

That's what I was implying. Word is he's up to 236 also, and let Rad get his hands on him and he will be 240-250 in no time. Jhop said that the coaches told Colt he could play both ways next year, but they are pushing for him to play the hi-bred spot of Rowe, and let him play part time on O. One thing I know is our coaches will get him to play the bet spot for both he and the team.

[bigfootlebowski]

I made a post on the Sam Kamp thread that got me fired up and had my brain wheels turning. My initial thoughts were that although we will be young and unproven at the DT spot, we are by no means lacking in size or talent.

The common misconception about the DT posistion seems to be that you need to be 320-330 lbs and clog 2 gaps. Sure there are freaks of nature like Ngata or Suh who are able to do this but that type of athlete is few and far between. Using the 5 DT's (besides Haloti) who made the Pro Bowl as the best at their position in the NFL, I calculated their average weight and found it to be 301.8 lbs. This included Vince Wilfork weighing in at 325 lbs as well as Justin Smith and Darnell Dockett who weighed 285 and 290 respectively. Now with this knowledge, lets take a look at the projected Duck DT's for next year...

Taking the top 4 returning DT's (Ricky, Wade, Remington and Hart) along with Ebert and calculating their average weight, I came up with 283.2. Keep in mind, the weights were taken from the 2010 roster and 3 of these guys are freshman or redshirt freshman. Assuming a minimal weight gain of around 5 lbs for each guy, the average weight bumps to almost 290. This seems more than possible considering the age and frame of the young guys combined with the nutrition and training all of these guys will receive.

Now I am not ignorant to the fact that 10lbs can make a big difference but lets keep in mind that these weights were coming from Pro Bowl DT's. Another important thing to keep in mind is that all of the Pro Bowl DT's came from 3-4 schemes, something that the Ducks have gravitated more and more towards.

So what does all of this mean? The DT's we will line up next year won't be breaking any scales anytime soon. What we will have are some good sized kids who on average will be much bigger than Brandon Bair and Zac Clark. If those guys were good enough to get us to the National Championship and lose on a last second field goal, then I will take my chances with the guys we have.

All of that being said, is DT a major target area for next years class? Absolutely, as one more year of near misses could put us in big trouble. Was striking out on a few guys this year a back breaker? No way, especially for a coach like Chip who values his scholarships. After all, having a few extra spaces is why we were able to take guys like Masoli and Marcus Davis.

and irvin...he was a nice late addition too

[Bigducker]

Two 2012 DT's the Ducks have already offered.

Eddie Goldman
(Edison-Friendship Public Charter School) Washington, DC
6'3"/290/5.30 Med Yes

Offer list:

Alabama, Arizona State, Arkansas, Auburn, Boston College, California, Clemson, Connecticut, East Carolina, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Iowa, LSU, Maryland, Miami (Fl), Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Oregon, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, South Carolina, Stanford, Tennessee, UCLA, USC, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia

Quay Evans
(Morton HS)
Morton, MS 6-3/300 Med Yes

Offer List:

Alabama, Florida State, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Oregon, Southern Miss, UCLA