L Perry wrote:It should definitely be on the table!! If it is, what it has been presented to be, then... Players (not involved) can transfer. Coaches involved should get the 'show-cause penalty' (that includes coaches still in the league, but coaching somewhere else, also) and the ones not involved can go somewhere else.
And the tens of thousands of fans, alumni and legal boosters? They can just pretend that they never went to the school, grew up watching the program with family, invested money in the program via legitimate means?
They get screwed! By the frakking idiots that did this and allowed it.
In other words, unnecessarily creating victims, thereby expanding the affects not of justice but of the violations.
L Perry wrote:It should definitely be on the table!! If it is, what it has been presented to be, then... Players (not involved) can transfer. Coaches involved should get the 'show-cause penalty' (that includes coaches still in the league, but coaching somewhere else, also) and the ones not involved can go somewhere else.
And the tens of thousands of fans, alumni and legal boosters? They can just pretend that they never went to the school, grew up watching the program with family, invested money in the program via legitimate means?
They get screwed! By the frakking idiots that did this and allowed it.
In other words, unnecessarily creating victims, thereby expanding the affects not of justice but of the violations.
Senseless.
They are already 'victims'!
Probae esti in segetem sunt deteriorem datae fruges, tamen ipsae suaptae enitent
wheaton4prez wrote:So they are fair game to punish for the actions of others?
The NCAA does it all the time so this case is no different. While it would be good if the NCAA actually caught those doing the violations while they are still in school, it's usually those that follow that have to pay the price for past indiscretions, as unfair as it may be.
wheaton4prez wrote:The NCAA does not give the death penalty "all the time".
I didn't mean they give the death penalty all the time. I was saying that they always ding the current team (players and coaches), even if no one is left who did the violations. It's just the nature of how the NCAA works. Until the NCAA has reason to act, they aren't proactive enough usually to get those that actually committed before they leave the school.
But they don't ding them to the point that the boosters, fans, alumni, etc. don't have a football team to watch (or little to no hope that they will reach the same level of success). Correct?
wheaton4prez wrote:But they don't ding them to the point that the boosters, fans, alumni, etc. don't have a football team to watch (or little to no hope that they will reach the same level of success). Correct?
In most cases, that doesn't happen since a team doesn't violate enough rules to warrant that. With Miami, it could be different because of the amount of stuff that possibly occurred, the athletic department sort of turning a blind eye to it, and Miami's past history with the NCAA. It may suck for boosters, fans, and alumni, but the school could really have avoided such things if they had just been a little more vigilant in keeping their noses clean.
wheaton4prez wrote:But they don't ding them to the point that the boosters, fans, alumni, etc. don't have a football team to watch (or little to no hope that they will reach the same level of success). Correct?
In most cases, that doesn't happen since a team doesn't violate enough rules to warrant that. With Miami, it could be different because of the amount of stuff that possibly occurred, the athletic department sort of turning a blind eye to it, and Miami's past history with the NCAA. It may suck for boosters, fans, and alumni, but the school could really have avoided such things if they had just been a little more vigilant in keeping their noses clean.
Why should any violation committed by individuals "warrant" the NCAA to punish people who had no involvement to no sensible effect? We have punishments to deter behavior and hold the guilty accountable. At some point, the punishment is neither deterring behavior or holding the guilty accountable. It's simply appealing to the bloodlust of rival fans.
I think that some want to convict the Miami program as if it were an individual. It's like throwing Ted Bundy's parents and cousins in jail for the crimes that Ted Bundy committed with the flimsy idea that it will prevent people from raising murderers.
wheaton4prez wrote:But they don't ding them to the point that the boosters, fans, alumni, etc. don't have a football team to watch (or little to no hope that they will reach the same level of success). Correct?
In most cases, that doesn't happen since a team doesn't violate enough rules to warrant that. With Miami, it could be different because of the amount of stuff that possibly occurred, the athletic department sort of turning a blind eye to it, and Miami's past history with the NCAA. It may suck for boosters, fans, and alumni, but the school could really have avoided such things if they had just been a little more vigilant in keeping their noses clean.
Why should any violation committed by individuals "warrant" the NCAA to punish people who had no involvement to no sensible effect? We have punishments to deter behavior and hold the guilty accountable. At some point, the punishment is neither deterring behavior or holding the guilty accountable. It's simply appealing to the bloodlust of rival fans.
I think that some want to convict the Miami program as if it were an individual. It's like throwing Ted Bundy's parents and cousins in jail for the crimes that Ted Bundy committed with the flimsy idea that it will prevent people from raising murderers.
It's just the way the NCAA works. They are not held to the same standards as a court of law. Like it or not, the NCAA is the ultimate judge of how programs operate and how they are punished. Fans may not like how they go about doing what they do, but until another governing body is created to replace the NCAA, we're stuck with how the NCAA does things.
greenyellow wrote:It's just the way the NCAA works. They are not held to the same standards as a court of law. Like it or not, the NCAA is the ultimate judge of how programs operate and how they are punished. Fans may not like how they go about doing what they do, but until another governing body is created to replace the NCAA, we're stuck with how the NCAA does things.
I'm familiar with the way the NCAA works. I'm not debating what it does. I'm contending that "death penalty" punishments are senseless.
I wasn't comparing the NCAA process to the legal process. I was using an analogy to demonstrate the flawed justice and irrationality inherent in the "death penalty" punishment.
After having a few days to hear everything and think about it…I think they are going to drop a big hammer on Miami but I don’t think that the NCAA will ever use the death penalty again. It causes WAY to much damage to people who are not directly involved.
Bud Lee wrote:After having a few days to hear everything and think about it…I think they are going to drop a big hammer on Miami but I don’t think that the NCAA will ever use the death penalty again. It causes WAY to much damage to people who are not directly involved.
