Eastern Washington @ Oregon

[oregontrack]

Armstead on the other season, shot better in his sophomore year and junior year then ANY year Sim has been here. So to put down Armstead like Oregontrack did and put Sim up on a pedestal for a one game performance is very degrading and offensive towards a past player. And I don't think that's fair for Malcolm.

I'm not bashing Sim, but moreso defending Armstead.

i think armstead was good as a sophomore. the problem is that we aren't talking about armstead's sophomore year, where he was able to go out and freelance because big ern didn't know how to run an offense. last year he was put into a structured system with designed sets and he just didn't get it, and it obviously flustered him to the point he felt he could no longer continue playing basketball here.

[TheMaehlMan]

I find it odd that people are sad that Armstead wanted to go. He never fully bought in last year, so good riddance...

Our point guards are not great by any means, but they are buying in and will improve..

[UOducksTK1]

Well I respect your opinion duck07, but I disagree. Is it too much to ask of Sim to average 10+ppg? Afterall he was supposed to have an amazing shot and be known as a scorer. But his best year, he's average 8.2ppg. He shot under 37% for two seasons.

and here lies a problem i think a lot of people have. no, he was not supposed to have an amazing shot. he's a freaky athlete who carried a decent sunset team in hs, but he did not make his living from beyond the arc. he wasn't a bad shooter -- but he was probably about as good then as he is now. he averaged about 2 treys a game in hs. what he could do then, and what we see every now and then from him now, is an ability to break down the defense and get inside.

he had his faults in hs and that's why he was not a 4-star recruit. he was never a brett kingma. he was an athlete who people thought might be able to become a pure shooter. hasn't really worked out.

Fair enough. And yes I agree.

[Boom]

I find it odd that people are sad that Armstead wanted to go. He never fully bought in last year, so good riddance...

Our point guards are not great by any means, but they are buying in and will improve..

I'm not sad...

I'm just stating that he could have helped this team.

the point you made was that armstead could hit an open jumper, whereas sim could not. in reality, armstead struggled mightily hitting open jumpers. not only does fg %

nice exaggeration.... He still struggled less "mightily" than Sim did last year.... and after 2 games... it's very obvious that Sim's more productive when he plays off ball (his natural position) and as does this team... Loyd appears to be the better PG of the two... which is why I don't think this is a Sim/Armstead discussion.

sim is currently shooting better than armstead did

You're essentially comparing 1 game against an entire year... how is that not bias?

[Duck07]

This thread is so full of dumb right now. For starters, everyone who has a problem with the team/players so far seems to expect us to be playing like UNC right now even though they won't say it and for 3* recruits to be Jimmer while arguing that players who didn't want to play for DA would somehow do what again? I'm so confused as to what this argument over Armstead is about. I understand the Sim hate since its always gone on since he first got here and didn't "perform to standard."

So by all means, let's pile it on Sim and argue "what-if Armstead was here scenario's." I'll start...
Sim: 11 points pg (1st)
5 rebounds pg (1st)
4 assists pg (2nd)
1.5 steals pg (3rd)
867% Free Throws (2nd) 2nd last year too

As for Armstead, he hasn't played at all this year for Wichita State.

At some point, don't you have to finally admit that Sim's "ceiling" so to speak is also based on who he has around him as well? So far this season, there is no reason to dog on him or even suggest that Armstead and his battitude would have this team playing better than it is.

[Boom]

This thread is so full of dumb right now. For starters, everyone who has a problem with the team/players so far seems to expect us to be playing like UNC right now even though they won't say it and for 3* recruits to be Jimmer while arguing that players who didn't want to play for DA would somehow do what again? I'm so confused as to what this argument over Armstead is about. I understand the Sim hate since its always gone on since he first got here and didn't "perform to standard."

So by all means, let's pile it on Sim and argue "what-if Armstead was here scenario's." I'll start...
Sim: 11 points pg (1st)
5 rebounds pg (1st)
4 assists pg (2nd)
1.5 steals pg (3rd)
867% Free Throws (2nd) 2nd last year too

As for Armstead, he hasn't played at all this year for Wichita State.

At some point, don't you have to finally admit that Sim's "ceiling" so to speak is also based on who he has around him as well? So far this season, there is no reason to dog on him or even suggest that Armstead and his battitude would have this team playing better than it is.

As far as I can tell... the only persons who are trying to make this an Armstead/Sim debate is oregontrack and yourself.

My personal opinion.. is that Sim has turned into a decent off-guard who rarely hurts us... but I do think this team plays much better when Loyd...a true PG.. is running show.

I really don't see the logic in comparing Armstead and Sim.... they're 2 completely different type of players.

[oregontrack]

nice exaggeration.... He still struggled less "mightily" than Sim did last year.... and after 2 games... it's very obvious that Sim's more productive when he plays off ball (his natural position) and as does this team... Loyd appears to be the better PG of the two... which is why I don't think this is a Sim/Armstead discussion.

sim played the majority of his minutes last year at the 2-guard spot, comparing armstead's 2010-11 numbers to sim's 2010-11 numbers won't get you anywhere. as for the rest, if loyd appears to better than sim right now to you, then i rest my case, we're not missing armstead at all. because so far sim's playing pretty well, and if loyd can better that...

You're essentially comparing 1 game against an entire year... how is that not bias?

we're actually two games into the season, not one. but throw out that comment i made about sim playing better last night than armstead ever did last year, because while it may very well be true, that was never an important part of my argument but it's the only thing you and TK latched onto and you're not able to see around it. forget i said it, for the sake of not repeating myself a dozen more times.

the point was that you said we really missed armstead, meaning that through two games, we have really missed armstead on THIS TEAM. i asked you why you thought the way you did, and you pointed to outside shooting and defense. what games am i supposed to look at to disprove your erroneous point? THIS YEAR'S GAMES, because that's what you pointed to and said we could use malcolm's help with! as of yet, there has been no inclination that we have missed malcolm armstead on THIS YEAR'S team. sim's been playing well, loyd's been a nice sparkplug. and dare i say it, even bruce barron showed the fans/coaches something last night.

there's no bias here. i think you just misspoke.

[Boom]

I made the point on outside shooting because that's missing from Loyd's game.

If I was to compare him to Sim... I would suggest that Armstead is a more natural point that has the ability to break down defenses/drive to the paint and get the bigs some easy buckets.

Sim was essentially a non factor (wile playing PG) in the Vandy game.... so no you're really only comparing one game... against Eastern Washington.

I've never viewed Sim as a PG and he's playing pretty well off ball not on point.

[oregontrack]

eh. i'd suggest watching closer.

[Boom]

eh. i'd suggest watching closer.

So you think Sim had a good game against Vandy?




I suggest you watch the replay
http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/s ... condensed/

[oregontrack]

he was fine against vandy. moved the ball well, got us off to a good start. not his fault he found jabari in position to score and jabari turned the ball over, or delivered the ball to woods down low and woods walked with it. nor was it his fault his team shot 34% from the line and couldn't rebound. hell, he outrebounded all of our bigs.

[UOducksTK1]

I find it odd that people are sad that Armstead wanted to go. He never fully bought in last year, so good riddance...

Our point guards are not great by any means, but they are buying in and will improve..

I'm not sad...

I'm just stating that he could have helped this team.

the point you made was that armstead could hit an open jumper, whereas sim could not. in reality, armstead struggled mightily hitting open jumpers. not only does fg %

nice exaggeration.... He still struggled less "mightily" than Sim did last year.... and after 2 games... it's very obvious that Sim's more productive when he plays off ball (his natural position) and as does this team... Loyd appears to be the better PG of the two... which is why I don't think this is a Sim/Armstead discussion.

sim is currently shooting better than armstead did

You're essentially comparing 1 game against an entire year... how is that not bias?

Armstead did struggle mightily hitting open jumpers, Sim did...

Sim
35% FG 6.8ppg
36% FG 4.2ppg
41% FG 8.2ppg

vs

Armstead
45% FG 10.3ppg
42% FG 8.6ppg

Those are stats the previous 3 years.

[oregontrack]

Armstead did struggle mightily hitting open jumpers, Sim did...

Sim
35% FG 6.8ppg
36% FG 4.2ppg
41% FG 8.2ppg

vs

Armstead
45% FG 10.3ppg
42% FG 8.6ppg

Those are stats the previous 3 years.

you're not understanding the context of the conversation. when someone says that we're missing outside shooting, and pines over a player who they think could provide it, that tends to mean said player was a good outside shooter. but armstead was not a good outside shooter. boom spoke erroneously. the point isn't that sim is a prolific outside shooter (he's not), it's that armstead wasn't, either, therefore it was false statement.

and again, since the topic was jump shooting, fg% is a misleading statistic. armstead liked to take it inside more than sim does. sim shoots more jumpers.

[duckfan22]

At the end of the day. Altman isn't going to come here and determine
who plays and who doesn't. He doesn't care at this point what Armstead
shot last year vs Sim or who played better last year. If he feels Sim does a
good job at PG then what can we do. I think Lloyd does a better job running the
team. Sim is more a spot up shooter. He doesn't tho make a ton of mistakes
at the point. He isn't going to be 1st team all pac12 but capable at best.
This is a ridiculous argument at such an early stage in the season. Were not getting
Malcom back. This is our team this year. Let's let coach Altman worry about the
lineup's and who is playing well or not. He gets paid the big bucks. Let's just sit
back and watch this team grow. They will be just fine.

[Boom]

he was fine against vandy. moved the ball well, got us off to a good start. not his fault he found jabari in position to score and jabari turned the ball over, or delivered the ball to woods down low and woods walked with it. nor was it his fault his team shot 34% from the line and couldn't rebound. hell, he outrebounded all of our bigs.

He was for the most part... a non factor.

He rarely attacked the defense... chose poor angles to pass into the post... picked up his dribble on the perimeter... and shot 2 for 5 missing both of his 3pt attempts.

Yes he got some long rebounds.... he also led the team in minutes... so I'm not real surprised with his rebound total.

Sim is playing out of position.

Loyd is the only PG on our roster.