Big rumor out there about ASU

[maxduck]

Wouldn't Wilcox be the youngest HC in D-1? Maybe they are trying to copy USC, hire an extremely young guy from a football family but very little experience. After Dirk Koetter I'm not sure how boosters would react to another coach with a Boise State background and no head coaching experience.

[Duck07]

My only beef with Wilcox is his lack of discipline of his players on the field. Dirty play seems to be encouraged and that's unfortunate.

On defense, I would want my players to toe that line, but its not been a major issue (I know, everyone's going to go point out Jeron Johnson and make that be an all-encompassing statement) beyond our own perceptions based mostly off 1 player. Its like saying the entire ASU D and DC is cheap and dirty because of Vontaze. Heck, we've got to remember that sometimes players do stupid things on their own. How many have you forgot when Dante Rosario drop-kicked the Cal player?

[MFRDuckFan]

My only beef with Wilcox is his lack of discipline of his players on the field. Dirty play seems to be encouraged and that's unfortunate.

On defense, I would want my players to toe that line, but its not been a major issue (I know, everyone's going to go point out Jeron Johnson and make that be an all-encompassing statement) beyond our own perceptions based mostly off 1 player. Its like saying the entire ASU D and DC is cheap and dirty because of Vontaze. Heck, we've got to remember that sometimes players do stupid things on their own. How many have you forgot when Dante Rosario drop-kicked the Cal player?

Byron Hout comes to mind as well but it's an accepted pattern with these guys. It's not like they get punished or are taught discipline. They are rewarded for that behavior by being allowed to continue. Seems to be okay with ASU since Burfict has never been called on the carpet for his dirty play so perhaps it's a perfect fit.

Sometimes players do run off the trail & mess up, but it's the character of the coach that teaches them what is acceptable. When it's allowed to continue & encouraged, that's not good.

[Duck07]

My only beef with Wilcox is his lack of discipline of his players on the field. Dirty play seems to be encouraged and that's unfortunate.

On defense, I would want my players to toe that line, but its not been a major issue (I know, everyone's going to go point out Jeron Johnson and make that be an all-encompassing statement) beyond our own perceptions based mostly off 1 player. Its like saying the entire ASU D and DC is cheap and dirty because of Vontaze. Heck, we've got to remember that sometimes players do stupid things on their own. How many have you forgot when Dante Rosario drop-kicked the Cal player?

Byron Hout comes to mind as well but it's an accepted pattern with these guys. It's not like they get punished or are taught discipline. They are rewarded for that behavior by being allowed to continue. Seems to be okay with ASU since Burfict has never been called on the carpet for his dirty play so perhaps it's a perfect fit.

Sometimes players do run off the trail & mess up, but it's the character of the coach that teaches them what is acceptable. When it's allowed to continue & encouraged, that's not good.

Byron Hout didn't do anything that out of line though. Lots of guys talk s***, even after games, that's all on LG for being an idiot. And seriously, where are coming up with this nonsense that nobody calls out ASU or Vontaze? Really, I think you are simply letting 2 incidents stand as an indictment against Wilcox.

[JIDuck97]

Justin may be a DC, but his first 3 years at UO he was a QB.

Actually for Oregon he was a safety/cornerback.

[Duck07]

Justin may be a DC, but his first 3 years at UO he was a QB.

Actually for Oregon he was a safety/cornerback.

He might be thinking of Josh, who was a TE

[Boom]

Wilcox would be an outstanding hire, imo. The Tosh thing, if Wilcox turns out to be as good of an HC as I think he will, will be similar to Kelly and Helfrich.

In what way?

[Duck07]

Wilcox would be an outstanding hire, imo. The Tosh thing, if Wilcox turns out to be as good of an HC as I think he will, will be similar to Kelly and Helfrich.

In what way?

Probably that Chip calls the plays even though Mark is the OC.

[MFRDuckFan]

My only beef with Wilcox is his lack of discipline of his players on the field. Dirty play seems to be encouraged and that's unfortunate.

On defense, I would want my players to toe that line, but its not been a major issue (I know, everyone's going to go point out Jeron Johnson and make that be an all-encompassing statement) beyond our own perceptions based mostly off 1 player. Its like saying the entire ASU D and DC is cheap and dirty because of Vontaze. Heck, we've got to remember that sometimes players do stupid things on their own. How many have you forgot when Dante Rosario drop-kicked the Cal player?

Byron Hout comes to mind as well but it's an accepted pattern with these guys. It's not like they get punished or are taught discipline. They are rewarded for that behavior by being allowed to continue. Seems to be okay with ASU since Burfict has never been called on the carpet for his dirty play so perhaps it's a perfect fit.

Sometimes players do run off the trail & mess up, but it's the character of the coach that teaches them what is acceptable. When it's allowed to continue & encouraged, that's not good.

Byron Hout didn't do anything that out of line though. Lots of guys talk s***, even after games, that's all on LG for being an idiot. And seriously, where are coming up with this nonsense that nobody calls out ASU or Vontaze? Really, I think you are simply letting 2 incidents stand as an indictment against Wilcox.

You're kidding about Hout, right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhLvWc6gm4U There's been lots of chatter about these guys for awhile (even amongst football players who have had the pleasure of playing against them). Of course everyone knows about this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQnQwAVzZcE. I'm not going to spend hours scouring the internet in order to try to prove my point about them so believe what you want.

You definitely got this twisted around from what I said - "And seriously, where are coming up with this nonsense that nobody calls out ASU or Vontaze?" I didn't mention anything about people from the outside criticizing ASU for his dirty play. We all know that he's been an issue for quite awhile. I am specifically talking about the coaching staff teaching this young man about dirty vs. clean plays. It's an accepted practice to allow his behavior to continue so that's the way they run the program. More power to them I guess.

[Duck07]

I fail to see how Hout getting a facemask against TCU this year, 2 years after Wilcox is gone, to be an indication that Wilcox has no control over his players and prefers them to be lunatics on the filed ala Lattimore from The Program. I realize that is taking it a step beyond, but its no different than making the catch-all assessment that based off 2 players, its an indictment against the guy. Ultimately, I just don't see the same concern as you do with his ability to "control" his players. I certainly haven't heard anything like that since he's been at UT, too.

As for Burfict, do you really believe ASU hasn't tried to reel him in? Some people tend to be loose cannons, we've had them here ourselves, but to me that is on the player and not on a coach. Especially when it isn't something like Urban's Gators and the absurd arrest record during his tenure there.

[MFRDuckFan]

I fail to see how Hout getting a facemask against TCU this year, 2 years after Wilcox is gone, to be an indication that Wilcox has no control over his players and prefers them to be lunatics on the filed ala Lattimore from The Program. I realize that is taking it a step beyond, but its no different than making the catch-all assessment that based off 2 players, its an indictment against the guy. Ultimately, I just don't see the same concern as you do with his ability to "control" his players. I certainly haven't heard anything like that since he's been at UT, too.

As for Burfict, do you really believe ASU hasn't tried to reel him in? Some people tend to be loose cannons, we've had them here ourselves, but to me that is on the player and not on a coach. Especially when it isn't something like Urban's Gators and the absurd arrest record during his tenure there.

Whatever, you win.

[Boom]

I just don't see why people think he's some defensive genius?

Overrated imo

[Duck07]

I just don't see why people think he's some defensive genius?

Overrated imo

For me, its not just that he developed the scheme to "beat Oregon" before anyone else realized it but that he has been able to consistently come up with solid schemes to stop his opponents. I realize some might look at that UT game and say 'whatever' but he also helped recruit guys to Boise that are now solid NFL draft picks. If he were to stay at UT long enough, I've no doubt the same would happen there. I wouldn't call him a genius, but I think when you've showed the kind of promise that he has so early on, you've got to take notice. He'd certainly be a step-up from Nick.

So why do you believe he is overrated then?

[buckmarkduck]

Justin may be a DC, but his first 3 years at UO he was a QB.

Actually for Oregon he was a safety/cornerback.

He might be thinking of Josh, who was a TE

Nope, he came to UO as a QB from Junction City. Played there for his first 2.5 years then as a RS SO moved to safety so he could see the field when it became clear he would never beat out Akili, Moss or Feely. Then his SR year he went to CB when we ran out of options there.

[Boom]

I just don't see why people think he's some defensive genius?

Overrated imo

For me, its not just that he developed the scheme to "beat Oregon" before anyone else realized it but that he has been able to consistently come up with solid schemes to stop his opponents. I realize some might look at that UT game and say 'whatever' but he also helped recruit guys to Boise that are now solid NFL draft picks. If he were to stay at UT long enough, I've no doubt the same would happen there. I wouldn't call him a genius, but I think when you've showed the kind of promise that he has so early on, you've got to take notice. He'd certainly be a step-up from Nick.

So why do you believe he is overrated then?

Cause he coached at Boise.... against inferior competition... and he's shown nothing at Tennessee to get excited about.

And the only time his defense looked good against us is when we had QB's who couldn't throw the ball.... Any decent team could have beet us with Chris Harper as our QB... Masoli wasn't a very good passer to begin with and for some reason he had a really slow start in 09.

And really this is the only thing he's known for... his 09 game opener win against the Ducks.

As of right now... I'd take NA

Maybe some day Wilcox will be the better Coordinator, but he hasn't shown it yet.