Big rumor out there about ASU

[Duck07]

One coordinator in this picture has taken his defense and improved it year to year without having to make up excuses.
The other coordinator has 1 top 25 Defensive season in over 15+ years, doesn't run anything new and we treat him like he's Buddy frickin Ryan.

You're comparing a guy who competed in the Mountain West? To a guy who has led us to the #1/2 defense in the Pac12 for the past 2 seasons.

And as I've shown... His defense hardly made an improvement at UT.. they just played worst offenses.

But ya it makes sense to trade Alliotti in for him

Oh yea, you really hammered that point home. So what improvements has NA made that makes him a quality coach? Outside of last year, he has never had a top 25 defense. How many times in that same period do you suppose our offense has been top 25?

Seriously, how messed up is our fan base that some of us rip on Wilcox who has shown nothing but positive things but will stand up for NA, who was fired after 1 year at UCLA and nobody in the nation wants? His defenses don't improve. We had an All-Pro DT and it still took 8/9 guys in the box to stop the run. We had a defensive backfield of NFL starters and still had a terrible pass D. We still have to have 8/9 guys in the box to stop the run. Nothing has changed except putting another LB on the field and taking a DB off. Man, what a great coach!

[maxduck]

One coordinator in this picture has taken his defense and improved it year to year without having to make up excuses.
The other coordinator has 1 top 25 Defensive season in over 15+ years, doesn't run anything new and we treat him like he's Buddy frickin Ryan.

You're comparing a guy who competed in the Mountain West? To a guy who has led us to the #1/2 defense in the Pac12 for the past 2 seasons.

And as I've shown... His defense hardly made an improvement at UT.. they just played worst offenses.

But ya it makes sense to trade Alliotti in for him

Oh yea, you really hammered that point home. So what improvements has NA made that makes him a quality coach? Outside of last year, he has never had a top 25 defense. How many times in that same period do you suppose our offense has been top 25?

Seriously, how messed up is our fan base that some of us rip on Wilcox who has shown nothing but positive things but will stand up for NA, who was fired after 1 year at UCLA and nobody in the nation wants? His defenses don't improve. We had an All-Pro DT and it still took 8/9 guys in the box to stop the run. We had a defensive backfield of NFL starters and still had a terrible pass D. We still have to have 8/9 guys in the box to stop the run. Nothing has changed except putting another LB on the field and taking a DB off. Man, what a great coach!

Except Rich Brooks, Mike Bellotti, and Chip Kelly.

Of course Bob Toledo knew more than those three, right? BTW, according to the LA Times Aliotti wasn't fired,...had been invited by Coach Bob Toledo to remain at UCLA in his current position. But that also came with the stipulation that there be changes in the way he managed the unit... Hey, don't let facts stand in the way of a good rant.

[Boom]

Oh yea, you really hammered that point home.

Well.. it was certainly a lot better than saying his defense improved every year or that he has top 25 defenses (In the Mountain West )

So what improvements has NA made that makes him a quality coach?

He's gotten better overall players and depth.

Outside of last year, he has never had a top 25 defense. How many times in that same period do you suppose our offense has been top 25?

Offenses have a significant advantage in cfb. Comparing our talent/scheme on offense to what we have had on defense... offense wins hands down.

Seriously, how messed up is our fan base that some of us rip on Wilcox who has shown nothing but positive things but will stand up for NA,

Wilcox is on his way... but as of now... there's nothing to indicate that he would do better than NA.

Riding Kellen Moore to some MWC championships and beating Oregon without a QB that could pass the ball.... Isn't good enough.

who was fired after 1 year at UCLA and nobody in the nation wants?

Chip & Bellotti seem to be OK with him

His defenses don't improve. We had an All-Pro DT and it still took 8/9 guys in the box to stop the run. We had a defensive backfield of NFL starters and still had a terrible pass D. We still have to have 8/9 guys in the box to stop the run.

Takes more than a handful of players to have a complete defense.

BTW Ngatta has admitted that he took plays off in college... and Byrd was playing out of position.

Nothing has changed except putting another LB on the field and taking a DB off. Man, what a great coach!

No one is saying he's the greatest ever... but it's pretty obvious we've had an improved defense the past 2 seasons.

[Dr.Plompy]

I admire your patience Boom, but your valid point may be falling on deaf ears. I thought this article made a similar point using last year's NCG as it's case study. It doesn't seem like any minds are getting changed around here though...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... pQ&cad=rja

[maxduck]

I admire your patience Boom, but your valid point may be falling on deaf ears. I thought this article made a similar point using last year's NCG as it's case study. It doesn't seem like any minds are getting changed around here though...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... pQ&cad=rja

Blasphemy! So while Alabama and LSU ended up with the No.6 and No.8 ranked defenses...they actually gave up more yards-per-play (4.77 and 4.78 per play) than the Ducks did (4.53).

[SuperDuck]

One coordinator in this picture has taken his defense and improved it year to year without having to make up excuses.
The other coordinator has 1 top 25 Defensive season in over 15+ years, doesn't run anything new and we treat him like he's Buddy frickin Ryan.

You're comparing a guy who competed in the Mountain West? To a guy who has led us to the #1/2 defense in the Pac12 for the past 2 seasons.

And as I've shown... His defense hardly made an improvement at UT.. they just played worst offenses.

But ya it makes sense to trade Alliotti in for him

Actually, I'm not going to get caught up in this argument because it's pointless, but I DO want to point out that Wilcox NEVER coached in the Mountain West. He just joined UT last year and this year was Boise State's first year in the Mountain West. Therefore, his defenses were against predominantly Western Athletic Conference teams. Isn't that correct?

That being said, he still gave up over 40 points to Oklahoma in their Fiesta Bowl win and gave up 32 to the Ducks in the first game they played, that would have easily been more if Mike Bellotti had pulled the redshirt off of Darren Thomas sooner. Yes, they only gave up 8 points to the Ducks in Boise, but we had a mostly rebuilt offensive line in the first game of the season.

Wilcox did to us what most good defensive coordinators would have done. He continued to bring pressure against us until we proved that we could pick it up. Unfortunately, that never happened.

The same thing happened to Oklahoma when they played BYU in their season opener and lost 3-4 years ago. It was the game where Sam Bradford hurt his shoulder. OU had a rebuilt O-Line and BYU coach, Bronco Mendenhall, kept bringing pressure from everywhere until Bradford finally got knocked out of the game.

Personally, I just haven't seen enough from Wilcox yet to make an educated judgment. When he's played full schedules against quality competition, with quality players for 3-4 years, then I'd be able to make a much better evaluation. Right now it's still kind of up in the air.

[wheaton4prez]

Top teams? they beat Oklahoma and Oregon twice... that's it unless you're counting TCU...

Were Oklahoma and Oregon not top teams when Boise State beat them? TCU was #4 in the country and averaged 40 per game when BSU held them to 10 points. What rank do you have to be in order to be a top team in your eyes? Top 2 only?

and outside of the 09 Oregon win... their offense won the games for them.

No football game has ever been won with offense alone. That Wilcox was able to hold a number of top ranked teams back enough to win, with the recruits that he had, is impressive.

No it's not

2011 5-7 (1-7)record
Florida averaged 22 against UT 33
#1 LSU averaged 38 against UT 38
#2 Bama averaged 36 against UT 37
#9 SC averaged 30 against UT 14 (without Lattimore and Garcia)
#6 Arkansas averaged 37 against UT 49

2010 6-7 (3-5) record
Florida averaged 30 against UT 31
#8 LSU averaged 30 against UT 16
Georgia averaged 32 against UT 41
#10 Alabama averaged 35 against UT 41
SC averaged 31 against UT 38 (with Lattimore & Garcia)

They were basically the same team... probably worst actually.

Hah! Fixed your post to include the rankings those teams ended up with.

Besides, what makes you think that this cherry-picked slice of the data is more telling than the ranking that includes all of the data available?

Only 5 SEC offenses average above 29 pts this year... compared to 10 in the previous year.

And you don't think that has anything to do with the defenses that they played against?

[duckfan96]

Do the last 3 pages of this post have anything to do with recruiting?

[karlhungis]

Do the last 3 pages of this post have anything to do with recruiting?

Welcome to the offseason.

[Duck07]

The Arizona Republic is saying that ASU is now trying to get Utah's Kyle Whittingham.

[Boom]

Top teams? they beat Oklahoma and Oregon twice... that's it unless you're counting TCU...

Were Oklahoma and Oregon not top teams when Boise State beat them?

Are you retarded? I just mentioned them under top teams...

TCU was #4 in the country and averaged 40 per game when BSU held them to 10 points. What rank do you have to be in order to be a top team in your eyes? Top 2 only?

TCU is and has been overrated due to the conference they play in... You're in the minority if you think otherwise.

and outside of the 09 Oregon win... their offense won the games for them.

No football game has ever been won with offense alone. That Wilcox was able to holda number of top ranked teams back enough to win, with the recruits that he had, is impressive.

2-3 teams is not "a number". This entire statement is silly.

No it's not

2011 5-7 (1-7)record
Florida averaged 22 against UT 33
#1 LSU averaged 38 against UT 38
#2 Bama averaged 36 against UT 37
#9 SC averaged 30 against UT 14 (without Lattimore and Garcia)
#6 Arkansas averaged 37 against UT 49

2010 6-7 (3-5) record
Florida averaged 30 against UT 31
#8 LSU averaged 30 against UT 16
Georgia averaged 32 against UT 41
#10 Alabama averaged 35 against UT 41
SC averaged 31 against UT 38 (with Lattimore & Garcia)

They were basically the same team... probably worst actually.

Hah! Fixed your post to include the rankings those teams ended up with.

Besides, what makes you think that this cherry-picked slice of the data is more telling than the ranking that includes all of the data available?

So holding teams to their average offensive production is good enough to you? You're example of total defense is a lot more "cherry picking" than what I put out there.

Do you actually think Tennessee is a better defensive team than Oregon because they have a better total D ranking?

Only 5 SEC offenses average above 29 pts this year... compared to 10 in the previous year.

And you don't think that has anything to do with the defenses that they played against?

I think it has more to do with the QB's that they lost from last year.

[karlhungis]

The Arizona Republic is saying that ASU is now trying to get Utah's Kyle Whittingham.

I think the key word here is "trying". I would be surprised to see KW make a move like that, especially right after joining the conference.

[Duck07]

The Arizona Republic is saying that ASU is now trying to get Utah's Kyle Whittingham.

I think the key word here is "trying". I would be surprised to see KW make a move like that, especially right after joining the conference.

I think the key in that is how desperate ASU is. The Pres cut off discussions with June Jones and now they haven't got a clue who they want to be coach and they are simply throwing names around. Maybe they go after Pat Hill next...

[wheaton4prez]

Are you retarded? I just mentioned them under top teams...

Is English your second language? You also wrote "Top teams?" What way is that supposed to be read other than questioning my statement that they beat top teams?

TCU is and has been overrated due to the conference they play in... You're in the minority if you think otherwise.

Substantiate that the majority of people thought TCU was over-rated in 2009.

So holding teams to their average offensive production is good enough to you? You're example of total defense is a lot more "cherry picking" than what I put out there.

When did you change the discussion to be about what defense is good enough for me?

My point is that Wilcox over-performed with the talent he had at BSU and has shown improvement at UT under less than ideal circumstances. Indications that he is a good coach.

Do you actually think Tennessee is a better defensive team than Oregon because they have a better total D ranking?

I never made that argument and it is completely beside the points that I have made.