Brett Kingma transferring?

[Boom]

it's hard to judge a player on the statistics he puts up as a part-time freshman.

That's why you watch the games... You don't need stats to tell you he can't defend his position or that his ball handling skills are below average. He was a one dimensional player at best.

i won't take the dickish route and say he isn't a pac-12 player, because no one knows how high his ceiling is.

Well, apparently Kingma does...

not everyone can be a star.

No one is saying you have to be a star to play in the Pac12

[oregontrack]

it's hard to judge a player on the statistics he puts up as a part-time freshman. i won't take the dickish route and say he isn't a pac-12 player, because no one knows how high his ceiling is. not everyone can be a star.

Let's not turn this into educk, ok? Disagreeing is one thing, name calling a fellow Duck Dickish is something else.

boom knows i love him.

[Mops]

it's hard to judge a player on the statistics he puts up as a part-time freshman. i won't take the dickish route and say he isn't a pac-12 player, because no one knows how high his ceiling is. not everyone can be a star.

Let's not turn this into educk, ok? Disagreeing is one thing, name calling a fellow Duck Dickish is something else.

Don't think oregontrack was name calling - I think he was pointing out that it's difficult to judge a player based on limited opportunities in their freshman year. I agree that it's a bit premature to make determinations about Kingma's ability - other than that he doesn't have the physical gifts to be a star player.

Luke Ridnour didn't look like a particularly good player in his freshman year. Not comparing Kingma to Ridnour - just pointing out that freshmen are rarely major contributors.

Ridnour was Freshmen of the Year. I'd say he looked pretty good.

[greenyellow]

I'd say Kingma was more like Garrett Sim at the beginning of his Oregon career. I didn't think much of Sim for about his first 2.5 years here but he broke out under Altman, which I think Kingma could have used as an example to keep working. Good luck to him wherever he ends up.

[UOducksTK1]

it's hard to judge a player on the statistics he puts up as a part-time freshman. i won't take the dickish route and say he isn't a pac-12 player, because no one knows how high his ceiling is. not everyone can be a star.

Let's not turn this into educk, ok? Disagreeing is one thing, name calling a fellow Duck Dickish is something else.

Don't think oregontrack was name calling - I think he was pointing out that it's difficult to judge a player based on limited opportunities in their freshman year. I agree that it's a bit premature to make determinations about Kingma's ability - other than that he doesn't have the physical gifts to be a star player.

Luke Ridnour didn't look like a particularly good player in his freshman year. Not comparing Kingma to Ridnour - just pointing out that freshmen are rarely major contributors.

Ridnour was Freshmen of the Year. I'd say he looked pretty good.

7.4ppg 3.8apg with 33% FG shooting and 29% 3point shooting. That was with over 30mpg, terrible stats. He was freshman of the year because he played substantially more than all the other freshmen.

Terrell Brandon on the other hand, 18ppg 6.0apg 3.7rpg on 47% FG and 44% 3point shooting. That was with 36mpg.

Pretty sure Kingma could have had an even better output than Ridnour if he was given those minutes.

[Boom]

it's hard to judge a player on the statistics he puts up as a part-time freshman. i won't take the dickish route and say he isn't a pac-12 player, because no one knows how high his ceiling is. not everyone can be a star.

Let's not turn this into educk, ok? Disagreeing is one thing, name calling a fellow Duck Dickish is something else.

Don't think oregontrack was name calling - I think he was pointing out that it's difficult to judge a player based on limited opportunities in their freshman year. I agree that it's a bit premature to make determinations about Kingma's ability - other than that he doesn't have the physical gifts to be a star player.

Luke Ridnour didn't look like a particularly good player in his freshman year. Not comparing Kingma to Ridnour - just pointing out that freshmen are rarely major contributors.

Ridnour was Freshmen of the Year. I'd say he looked pretty good.

7.4ppg 3.8apg with 33% FG shooting and 29% 3point shooting. That was with over 30mpg, terrible stats. He was freshman of the year because he played substantially more than all the other freshmen.

Terrell Brandon on the other hand, 18ppg 6.0apg 3.7rpg on 47% FG and 44% 3point shooting. That was with 36mpg.

Pretty sure Kingma could have had an even better output than Ridnour if he was given those minutes.

Wow... I don't see how you can think that. First off... Kingma is not a PG and he would have not led this team in assists.

2nd Garret Sims had similar minutes and is substantially better than Kingma. Sim only averaged 12pg. I suppose Kingma could have made 1-2 extra field goals per game and had a similar ppg average as Rid.

But there's really no sense to compare these two players... Ridnour was a McDonald All American point guard coming out of highschool.

Kingma is an undersized gunning shooting guard

The only real comparable player I can think of is James Davis and he benefited greatly by playing with three 1st round draft picks.

[soduck]

Kingma was a more natural great shooter than Sim. And with more play probably would have showed it. But Sim was a way better athlete and was able to gradually improve with the lack of depth we had here at the time. He could play better defense with his athleticism. I believe Sim was state long jump champ. Kingma was liability at defense. The little we saw of him you could see it. But no doubt he was not showing good enough defense regularly in practice for certainly he could have some pg minutes if nothing else as he could certainly shoot better than Lloyd. Lloyd is exceptionally quick but short with OK handles. Kingma did not take minutes from Lloyd though. And with Altman defense is very important. I would have liked to have seen him develop into a knock down shooter here, But let's see what Altman brought in for us next year before we say there were more minutes next year for Kingma.

[Boom]

Kingma was a more natural great shooter than Sim. And with more play probably would have showed it. But Sim was a way better athlete and was able to gradually improve with the lack of depth we had here at the time. He could play better defense with his athleticism. I believe Sim was state long jump champ. Kingma was liability at defense. The little we saw of him you could see it. But no doubt he was not showing good enough defense regularly in practice for certainly he could have some pg minutes if nothing else as he could certainly shoot better than Lloyd. Lloyd is exceptionally quick but short with OK handles. Kingma did not take minutes from Lloyd though. And with Altman defense is very important. I would have liked to have seen him develop into a knock down shooter here, But let's see what Altman brought in for us next year before we say there were more minutes next year for Kingma.

I think that's the most exciting thing about this current recruiting class.

Even though it's not star studded... we're bringing in 3 perimeter players in the 6-5 range

And Willie Moore could possibly play some point? and he's 6-3.

Hopefully that added length pays off in zone press.

[UOducksTK1]

it's hard to judge a player on the statistics he puts up as a part-time freshman. i won't take the dickish route and say he isn't a pac-12 player, because no one knows how high his ceiling is. not everyone can be a star.

Let's not turn this into educk, ok? Disagreeing is one thing, name calling a fellow Duck Dickish is something else.

Don't think oregontrack was name calling - I think he was pointing out that it's difficult to judge a player based on limited opportunities in their freshman year. I agree that it's a bit premature to make determinations about Kingma's ability - other than that he doesn't have the physical gifts to be a star player.

Luke Ridnour didn't look like a particularly good player in his freshman year. Not comparing Kingma to Ridnour - just pointing out that freshmen are rarely major contributors.

Ridnour was Freshmen of the Year. I'd say he looked pretty good.

7.4ppg 3.8apg with 33% FG shooting and 29% 3point shooting. That was with over 30mpg, terrible stats. He was freshman of the year because he played substantially more than all the other freshmen.

Terrell Brandon on the other hand, 18ppg 6.0apg 3.7rpg on 47% FG and 44% 3point shooting. That was with 36mpg.

Pretty sure Kingma could have had an even better output than Ridnour if he was given those minutes.

Wow... I don't see how you can think that. First off... Kingma is not a PG and he would have not led this team in assists.

2nd Garret Sims had similar minutes and is substantially better than Kingma. Sim only averaged 12pg. I suppose Kingma could have made 1-2 extra field goals per game and had a similar ppg average as Rid.

But there's really no sense to compare these two players... Ridnour was a McDonald All American point guard coming out of highschool.

Kingma is an undersized gunning shooting guard

The only real comparable player I can think of is James Davis and he benefited greatly by playing with three 1st round draft picks.

So if we played Kingma 30mpg at PG this year, you don't think he could have scored 7ppg and dished out 3.8apg? Really? There is nothing impressive about Ridnour's stats as a freshman.

And what? Sims substantially better than Kingma? Based on what? Sim was terrible at Oregon for 3 seasons. You are judging Kingma as if he is a senior. The kid is a freshman, and Sim and Ridnour struggled mightily as freshmen. To make judgement about Kingma's game at this point is beyond absurd. There's no reason he couldn't be a 12-15ppg 3apg player by his senior season.

[Boom]

So if we played Kingma 30mpg at PG this year, you don't think he could have scored 7ppg and dished out 3.8apg? Really? There is nothing impressive about Ridnour's stats as a freshman.

I agree, but the difference in style, basketball IQ, and the direction Ridnour was headed as a player is non comparable to Brett Kingma.

Minutes have nothing to do with it.

And no, I don't think Kingma could give you that type of production... I think he would struggle mightily bringing the ball up the court. He's not a PG... I don't see how anyone can watch him play and think that he is. Seriously... the kid had 15 DNPs and we have one of the worst backup PGs in the league (Loyd).

And what? Sims substantially better than Kingma? Based on what? Sim was terrible at Oregon for 3 seasons. You are judging Kingma as if he is a senior. The kid is a freshman, and Sim and Ridnour struggled mightily as freshmen. To make judgement about Kingma's game at this point is beyond absurd. There's no reason he couldn't be a 12-15ppg 3apg player by his senior season.

To say that Kingma would give you similar or more production than what Sim gave us this year if he simply had more minutes makes no sense. That was the point I was making.

Yes, Kingma may have been a viable role player his senior year, but Altman and Oregon basketball doesn't have that type of luxury.

We have a 200+ million dollar arena and a coach making 2 million per season...

Players like Kingma & Loyd will not cut it... and I think this current recruiting class shows that Altman realizes that.

[RanDux]

Hey uostudent. who is the tall dude in your picture? He sort of reminds me of Bill Walton, but I know it's not him.

[Mops]

Stats dont tell the entire story.

You don't win the Pac-10 FOY simply because you played more minutes than anyone else.

Ridnour was quicker, bigger, a better shooter, a better passer, a better defender (Not saying much).

Curtis Allen

22 MPG 7 PPG 38% FG, 24.7 3FG% 2.2 APG 2 RPG 1 SPG

TJ Cummings UCLA

18.8 MPG 6.4 PPG 48.5 FG% 3.5 RPG

Marcus Moore WSU

31 MPG 10.4 PPG 37 FG% 29.9 3FG% 3.6 APG 3.6 RPG 1.4 SPG

Luke Jackson

18.1 MPG 7.8 PPG 42.4 FG% 36 3FG% 2 APG 4.1 RPG

Luke Ridnour

30.3 MPG 7.4 PPG 33.9 FG% 29. 3FG% 3.8 APG 2.5 RPG

You dont win FOY for doing things stats dont show. An assist can be taken away because a player fumbles a perfect pass and takes two dribbles. Or he misses an easy layup. It wasn't like Oregon was a top team in the Pac-10 that year either so they just picked the best team with a good freshmen playing.

[UOducksTK1]

So if we played Kingma 30mpg at PG this year, you don't think he could have scored 7ppg and dished out 3.8apg? Really? There is nothing impressive about Ridnour's stats as a freshman.

I agree, but the difference in style, basketball IQ, and the direction Ridnour was headed as a player is non comparable to Brett Kingma.

Minutes have nothing to do with it.

And no, I don't think Kingma could give you that type of production... I think he would struggle mightily bringing the ball up the court. He's not a PG... I don't see how anyone can watch him play and think that he is. Seriously... the kid had 15 DNPs and we have one of the worst backup PGs in the league (Loyd).

And what? Sims substantially better than Kingma? Based on what? Sim was terrible at Oregon for 3 seasons. You are judging Kingma as if he is a senior. The kid is a freshman, and Sim and Ridnour struggled mightily as freshmen. To make judgement about Kingma's game at this point is beyond absurd. There's no reason he couldn't be a 12-15ppg 3apg player by his senior season.

To say that Kingma would give you similar or more production than what Sim gave us this year if he simply had more minutes makes no sense. That was the point I was making.

Yes, Kingma may have been a viable role player his senior year, but Altman and Oregon basketball doesn't have that type of luxury.

We have a 200+ million dollar arena and a coach making 2 million per season...

Players like Kingma & Loyd will not cut it... and I think this current recruiting class shows that Altman realizes that.

I seriously don't know how to split up quotes without messing them up, so I'll just respond to both.

You bolded my statement "Pretty sure Kingma could have had an even better output than Ridnour if he was given those minutes." and argued that point. No where in my life did I say he is like Ridnour or make that comparison. I am saying, Kingma with starters minutes, would put up 8-12ppg easy. Dude is a scorer.

And to put Kingma and Loyd in the same discussion again is highly premature IMO, and you have no basis for this. To me, Kingma should be compared to Sim. Sim for 3 years, could not do anything but shoot. And he was a pretty awful shooter then too. I don't see in anyway how Kingma is like Loyd. Anyway, this is a pretty useless discussion since he is not even going to be at Oregon. But watch him kill it wherever he goes. Kamyron Brown, Jon Loyd, these guys are terrible and really make us a worse team when they are on the court. But Kingma? He was pretty much never on the court. And to judge him before that is kinda messed up to do to any fellow duck player.

[oregontrack]

rid smacked into the freshman wall going 100 miles an hour in '01. he was okay, and he certainly looked like he had potential, but winning pac-10 freshman of the year doesn't really say anything by itself. it was kind of a weak class overall, and he wasn't even the best freshman on the roster. luke jackson probably should have clinched freshman of the year after his triple double up in seattle, but for whatever reason ernie really limited his minutes that first year. rid was on the floor all the time.

[UOducksTK1]

rid smacked into the freshman wall going 100 miles an hour in '01. he was okay, and he certainly looked like he had potential, but winning pac-10 freshman of the year doesn't really say anything by itself. it was kind of a weak class overall, and he wasn't even the best freshman on the roster. luke jackson probably should have clinched freshman of the year after his triple double up in seattle, but for whatever reason ernie really limited his minutes that first year. rid was on the floor all the time.

+1