Duck07 Thread

[Tray Dub]

Anybody care to talk Cuba? I've got something in common with Jay Z and Beyonce in that we all had permission from the US State Dept to visit!

I will! Our embargo of Cuba is bullshit. Economic warfare without any justification. Also, we've directed massive international terrorism against Cuba, mostly kept unknown to the American people. Castro is repressive, but the social welfare in Cuba is about on par with the United States, which is just stunning when you consider the relative wealth of both nations. I say lift the embargo and apologize for our vicious terrorism.

Its a blockade, really. The US is afraid that by opening up trade with Cuba (our farmers in the Midwest have long protested their inability to trade basic crops for high-quality sugar and tobacco) that Cuba will show that it is possible to have other forms of government that work. Further, this is also a firm "anti-capitalist" stance and any criticism of Cuba openly ignores what Saudi Arabia does and has done yet they are key allies because of oil.

Word. The United States is terrified of a good example for other countries to follow. The world system was designed by the United States following the Second World War, and has been run for the benefit of American interests (i.e. power for the policymakers and profit for the country's elite) ever since. A good example of an alternative to the American system terrifies planners. So, every time an alternative pops up the United States sets out to destroy it. That's the principal behind the ongoing attack on Cuba and also dozens of past attacks all over the world. It's not what you're told in school or the papers, but if you take a look at it that's how things really work I think.

In the case of Cuba, the terrorism directed against the country by the US, primarily John F. Kennedy, is just incredible. In one of many operations, the CIA bombed an industrial facility and killed 400 workers. The provocation was a country not behaving as Washington ordered it to. Thankfully, this has mostly been effectively suppressed from the American public. I think relations between the US and Cuba will become increasingly normalized for the foreseeable future because the American business community has been upset about missing out on business opportunities there for a while now. So far, governmental concerns have trumped corporate interests, but it seems things are moving towards normalization, which is a welcome development.

[Bud Lee]

Anyone mention in 17 pages that this should be on the other board?

This thread predates the Bud Lee rule.

hmm....only by about 3 months though...still valid point

[Bud Lee]

Anybody care to talk Cuba? I've got something in common with Jay Z and Beyonce in that we all had permission from the US State Dept to visit!

I will! Our embargo of Cuba is bullshit. Economic warfare without any justification. Also, we've directed massive international terrorism against Cuba, mostly kept unknown to the American people. Castro is repressive, but the social welfare in Cuba is about on par with the United States, which is just stunning when you consider the relative wealth of both nations. I say lift the embargo and apologize for our vicious terrorism.

Its a blockade, really. The US is afraid that by opening up trade with Cuba (our farmers in the Midwest have long protested their inability to trade basic crops for high-quality sugar and tobacco) that Cuba will show that it is possible to have other forms of government that work. Further, this is also a firm "anti-capitalist" stance and any criticism of Cuba openly ignores what Saudi Arabia does and has done yet they are key allies because of oil.

Word. The United States is terrified of a good example for other countries to follow. The world system was designed by the United States following the Second World War, and has been run for the benefit of American interests (i.e. power for the policymakers and profit for the country's elite) ever since. A good example of an alternative to the American system terrifies planners. So, every time an alternative pops up the United States sets out to destroy it. That's the principal behind the ongoing attack on Cuba and also dozens of past attacks all over the world. It's not what you're told in school or the papers, but if you take a look at it that's how things really work I think.

In the case of Cuba, the terrorism directed against the country by the US, primarily John F. Kennedy, is just incredible. In one of many operations, the CIA bombed an industrial facility and killed 400 workers. The provocation was a country not behaving as Washington ordered it to. Thankfully, this has mostly been effectively suppressed from the American public. I think relations between the US and Cuba will become increasingly normalized for the foreseeable future because the American business community has been upset about missing out on business opportunities there for a while now. So far, governmental concerns have trumped corporate interests, but it seems things are moving towards normalization, which is a welcome development.

I just want to go down there, sit on the beach during the day, enjoy some Cuba Libre’s made with some good dark rum, smoke some fine cigars rolled on the sweaty thighs of a sultry Cuban woman, gamble in some fine Casinos and employee a few “professional” girls when I retire for the evening…you know…just like Grandpa use to when he went.


If you ask me Vegas is to blame, they don’t want a “Sin City” in the Caribbean to compete with again.

[Duck07]

I think it would help if the majority had it in there heads that this little thing we call democracy is still just an experiment rather than a sacred cow that we treat it as. We've seen that any form of government is able to be corrupted so rather than being ignorant to our own errors and touting our successes blindly, we should take an active interest in how other people govern themselves right or wrong.

[JIDuck97]

I think it would help if the majority had it in there heads that this little thing we call democracy is still just an experiment rather than a sacred cow that we treat it as. We've seen that any form of government is able to be corrupted so rather than being ignorant to our own errors and touting our successes blindly, we should take an active interest in how other people govern themselves right or wrong.

Exactly and well put.

Both my father and I as ex-social studies teachers tend to love to use the line "No one remembers the good dictators."

[oregontrack]

aside from augustus, of course.

[JIDuck97]

aside from augustus, of course.

Who?

[Tray Dub]

We also need to remember what democracy means and how limited a form this one is. The more democratic a government is, the more public opinion shapes policy. In this country, there are a host of major issues where public opinion diverges widely from official policy. So, whether and to what extent the United States is a democracy should be scrutinized a lot more carefully than it is.

[Duck07]

I'm really tired about hearing about energy efficiency, especially from an actor on The Wire (this is humorous to me because if they made the wires in fluorescent bulbs thicker they'd last a lot longer) when most people have no clue about what is known as the Jevon's Paradox/Effect.

"It is a confusion of ideas to suppose that the economical use of fuel is equivalent to diminished consumption. The very contrary is the truth."

Toilet Paper however is one of the few resources where an increase in efficiency won't necessarily contribute to a increase in consumption. So, the next time someone tells you about "efficiency," make sure to ask them how that relates to total consumption.

[JIDuck97]

We also need to remember what democracy means and how limited a form this one is. The more democratic a government is, the more public opinion shapes policy. In this country, there are a host of major issues where public opinion diverges widely from official policy. So, whether and to what extent the United States is a democracy should be scrutinized a lot more carefully than it is.

Yes and no. I am agreeing wholeheartedly that America is not a true democracy. I am questioning whether or not we would want freaking idiots deciding social and legal policy even more than they already do.

Perhaps I am jaded. Call me what you will but I am of the firm believe that there are smart people and then there are the masses. By the masses I mean the people who make regular conversation about what Lady Gaga is doing lately or what Justin Bieber wore to some awards show. Even though I realize that I am a hypocrite for my insane love of Duck football and football in general, I consider these types of people to be unworthy of deciding what laws I should be following.

Ironically however I don't trust politicians and think that politics happen to be one of the worlds greatest scams. Perhaps I should give the Bieber believers a bigger shot? I will finish this off with a whole lot of shrugging.

[JIDuck97]

And also during that last rant I was highly distracted by the athletic Oregon girls doing upside down splits while being held up near the bottom of my web page.

[Everythingsducky]

Anybody care to talk Cuba? I've got something in common with Jay Z and Beyonce in that we all had permission from the US State Dept to visit!

I will! Our embargo of Cuba is bullshit. Economic warfare without any justification. Also, we've directed massive international terrorism against Cuba, mostly kept unknown to the American people. Castro is repressive, but the social welfare in Cuba is about on par with the United States, which is just stunning when you consider the relative wealth of both nations. I say lift the embargo and apologize for our vicious terrorism.

Its a blockade, really. The US is afraid that by opening up trade with Cuba (our farmers in the Midwest have long protested their inability to trade basic crops for high-quality sugar and tobacco) that Cuba will show that it is possible to have other forms of government that work. Further, this is also a firm "anti-capitalist" stance and any criticism of Cuba openly ignores what Saudi Arabia does and has done yet they are key allies because of oil.

Word. The United States is terrified of a good example for other countries to follow. The world system was designed by the United States following the Second World War, and has been run for the benefit of American interests (i.e. power for the policymakers and profit for the country's elite) ever since. A good example of an alternative to the American system terrifies planners. So, every time an alternative pops up the United States sets out to destroy it. That's the principal behind the ongoing attack on Cuba and also dozens of past attacks all over the world. It's not what you're told in school or the papers, but if you take a look at it that's how things really work I think.

In the case of Cuba, the terrorism directed against the country by the US, primarily John F. Kennedy, is just incredible. In one of many operations, the CIA bombed an industrial facility and killed 400 workers. The provocation was a country not behaving as Washington ordered it to. Thankfully, this has mostly been effectively suppressed from the American public. I think relations between the US and Cuba will become increasingly normalized for the foreseeable future because the American business community has been upset about missing out on business opportunities there for a while now. So far, governmental concerns have trumped corporate interests, but it seems things are moving towards normalization, which is a welcome development.

Not a JFK fan, however you need to remember Cuba was the epicenter of the US/USSR standoff. I am not sure terrorism is a true description of a national threat 90 miles from our border. The threat level was extremely high, Cuba the puppet. Were you around when the US sweated out the standoff? If you have de-classified CIA information of unlawful bombing, share the thread, would love to read it. All I know is that other than taxes being too high, I enjoy living in the US. If people don't like democracy good or bad, there are plenty of other countries you have to choose from. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out (not necessarily directing this to the author of the post).

That being said, Cuba is beautiful if you go to the right spots. You can get there easily if you fly via Canada, or connect in Mexico, but the poverty level rivals that of many Latin American countries. i flew on Mexicana (when the airline was alive) via Cancun for a few days about 15yrs ago. It is hard to argue for free trade to help prop up Cuba, when most countries in Latin America suffer the same poverty while the US is a trade partner, not sure it would necessarily help the masses, and not going to line the pockets of the few fatso's in charge.

[Duck07]

Not a JFK fan, however you need to remember Cuba was the epicenter of the US/USSR standoff. I am not sure terrorism is a true description of a national threat 90 miles from our border. The threat level was extremely high, Cuba the puppet. Were you around when the US sweated out the standoff? If you have de-classified CIA information of unlawful bombing, share the thread, would love to read it. All I know is that other than taxes being too high, I enjoy living in the US. If people don't like democracy good or bad, there are plenty of other countries you have to choose from. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out (not necessarily directing this to the author of the post).

That being said, Cuba is beautiful if you go to the right spots. You can get there easily if you fly via Canada, or connect in Mexico, but the poverty level rivals that of many Latin American countries. i flew on Mexicana (when the airline was alive) via Cancun for a few days about 15yrs ago. It is hard to argue for free trade to help prop up Cuba, when most countries in Latin America suffer the same poverty while the US is a trade partner, not sure it would necessarily help the masses, and not going to line the pockets of the few fatso's in charge.

This might be "true" but you have to understand why that was the case. Similar to Ho Chi Minh in N. Vietnam, they received "aid" from our "enemies" in part because of our own actions. While Fidel was not trying to apply for aid from the U.S. before receiving it from the Soviets like Uncle Ho did, our problem with the Cuban Revolution was that American corporations were no longer allowed into Cuba based on their own ideology so in turn we shut off all trade. Who did we think Cuba would then trade with? Had we simply acknowledged Cuba's own Manifest Destiny, its likely Cuba never would have taken so much support from the Soviets.

I can't make an argument for Free Trade, its application is an oxymoron. I could make an argument for Fair Trade but we are firmly opposed to that in this country. As the blockade relates to Cuba however, you must recognize that Cuba is in such a superior position to most other countries in the world when you get away from poverty statistics to quality of life statistics. The Cuban people are healthy, fed and educated. Any condemnation we throw to the Cuban government ignores how the quality of life standards in this country are falling. Lastly, every major political act that occurs here lines "the pockets of fatsos," so why the double-standard? Recently Obummer signed what people are terming the Monsanto Protection Act because it removes the courts ability to rule against them - this of course violates the right of the people to redress the government in addition to abrogating the 'Rule of Law' in this country.

I'm not saying Cuba isn't perfect, but neither is the U.S. (why do we have to create acts called the "Restoration of the Freedom of Religion Act" when the 1st Amendment clearly states that you can't impugn upon those rights to begin with?) and they way we openly criticize other govts is too absurd for my liking. I know I am very critical of our government but we've allowed the democratic process to be corrupted and I guess I'd rather be someone to say "hey, that's not right" then to be kevin bacon yelling "all is well" when its clear that it is not.


I'll also take this moment to thank those of you who don't mind engaging in these trite discussions!

[JIDuck97]

Not a JFK fan, however you need to remember Cuba was the epicenter of the US/USSR standoff. I am not sure terrorism is a true description of a national threat 90 miles from our border. The threat level was extremely high, Cuba the puppet. Were you around when the US sweated out the standoff? If you have de-classified CIA information of unlawful bombing, share the thread, would love to read it. All I know is that other than taxes being too high, I enjoy living in the US. If people don't like democracy good or bad, there are plenty of other countries you have to choose from. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out (not necessarily directing this to the author of the post).

That being said, Cuba is beautiful if you go to the right spots. You can get there easily if you fly via Canada, or connect in Mexico, but the poverty level rivals that of many Latin American countries. i flew on Mexicana (when the airline was alive) via Cancun for a few days about 15yrs ago. It is hard to argue for free trade to help prop up Cuba, when most countries in Latin America suffer the same poverty while the US is a trade partner, not sure it would necessarily help the masses, and not going to line the pockets of the few fatso's in charge.

This might be "true" but you have to understand why that was the case. Similar to Ho Chi Minh in N. Vietnam, they received "aid" from our "enemies" in part because of our own actions. While Fidel was not trying to apply for aid from the U.S. before receiving it from the Soviets like Uncle Ho did, our problem with the Cuban Revolution was that American corporations were no longer allowed into Cuba based on their own ideology so in turn we shut off all trade. Who did we think Cuba would then trade with? Had we simply acknowledged Cuba's own Manifest Destiny, its likely Cuba never would have taken so much support from the Soviets.

I can't make an argument for Free Trade, its application is an oxymoron. I could make an argument for Fair Trade but we are firmly opposed to that in this country. As the blockade relates to Cuba however, you must recognize that Cuba is in such a superior position to most other countries in the world when you get away from poverty statistics to quality of life statistics. The Cuban people are healthy, fed and educated. Any condemnation we throw to the Cuban government ignores how the quality of life standards in this country are falling. Lastly, every major political act that occurs here lines "the pockets of fatsos," so why the double-standard? Recently Obummer signed what people are terming the Monsanto Protection Act because it removes the courts ability to rule against them - this of course violates the right of the people to redress the government in addition to abrogating the 'Rule of Law' in this country.

I'm not saying Cuba isn't perfect, but neither is the U.S. (why do we have to create acts called the "Restoration of the Freedom of Religion Act" when the 1st Amendment clearly states that you can't impugn upon those rights to begin with?) and they way we openly criticize other govts is too absurd for my liking. I know I am very critical of our government but we've allowed the democratic process to be corrupted and I guess I'd rather be someone to say "hey, that's not right" then to be kevin bacon yelling "all is well" when its clear that it is not.


I'll also take this moment to thank those of you who don't mind engaging in these trite discussions!

Very well said 07.

I am of the firm belief that it does not matter what political side you are because both are wrong in what this country should want. I think they are all out to make more money at the cost of stringing people along rather than being in it for the betterment of the people of this country. There will always be the "Where is the money going to come from" argument in regard to so many of the things that the US could actually do for their people, but I feel like that argument is started by the people that have more than anyone could possibly need.

[Tray Dub]

I'd like to echo what both Duck07 and JlDuck said, and just add this: Terrorism is exactly the right term for bombing civilians in another country, as we did to Cuba. That "a national threat" was ninety miles away does not make it not-terrorism, unless you think that it wouldn't have been terrorism for Cubans to blow up a building or shoot up a hotel. Would we have called THAT terrorism? Of course. And on top of that, we were waaaaaay more of a threat to Cuba than Cuba was to us. We damn near invaded multiple times, attempted to assassinate the national leader on several occasions, etc.

The United States, like all other powerful-enough states, engages in terrorism. In our case, we do a lot of it, because we have a big army and a lot of territory to control and keep in line, namely, the whole world. All governments engage in extreme violence for the interests of the state and the elite interests of the society, and ours is no exception. What we did, and continue to do with economic warfare, is a perfect illustration.