Magic/Suns

[lukeyrid13]

So we're cool with old teams with no future trading future 1sts but a re-building team with a clean slate, future all star PG, and upcoming top 4 pick cant trade something years down the road when the expectation is theyre a playoff team? I mean the Lakers and their sinking ship just traded a 92 1st for Joe Dumars amd nobody batted an eye lol.

I dunno, obvioisly Im biased and theres some potential upside for me but Im not seeing the consistency here.

If you’re implying the Nuggets, they have: Stockton, Barkley, Drexler and Sabonis. That’s totally different than the current Magic squad

[UOducksTK1]

So we're cool with old teams with no future trading future 1sts but a re-building team with a clean slate, future all star PG, and upcoming top 4 pick cant trade something years down the road when the expectation is theyre a playoff team? I mean the Lakers and their sinking ship just traded a 92 1st for Joe Dumars amd nobody batted an eye lol.

I dunno, obvioisly Im biased and theres some potential upside for me but Im not seeing the consistency here.

Have you compared Lakers and Magic's rosters?

This is so far different. (although I agree and I think Lakers got fleeced in that trade)

Plus flduck again is a newer guy to this, and obviously his team is rebuilding and struggling. Do you actually think this is a good deal for Magic? And one you'd encourage him to make? Feels like taking advantage of him personally.

[UOducksTK1]

You literally picked the one 1992 1st that would be veto'd no matter what. Try to do this trade with any other team and I probably wouldn't care.

[the goat]

So we're cool with old teams with no future trading future 1sts but a re-building team with a clean slate, future all star PG, and upcoming top 4 pick cant trade something years down the road when the expectation is theyre a playoff team? I mean the Lakers and their sinking ship just traded a 92 1st for Joe Dumars amd nobody batted an eye lol.

I dunno, obvioisly Im biased and theres some potential upside for me but Im not seeing the consistency here.

I'm trying to win now, so I'm willing to take the risk. And I have a plan

As in, I have star players that I could trade away for picks (including the ones I gave away). What's the Magic gonna do if Wayman doesn't resign?

[Boom]

I think it’s fine if he resigns, but that’s a big risk.

[lukeyrid13]

I still think best plan is to just increase the protections and then I think it’s fine. I still wouldn’t in the Magic’s shoes, but at least they won’t lose a top 5 pick

[UOducksTK1]

I still think best plan is to just increase the protections and then I think it’s fine. I still wouldn’t in the Magic’s shoes, but at least they won’t lose a top 5 pick

This is a good point. If it stays top 5 for at least a few seasons, I probably wouldn't be so quick to defend Magic here.

[FlDuckFan]

So we're cool with old teams with no future trading future 1sts but a re-building team with a clean slate, future all star PG, and upcoming top 4 pick cant trade something years down the road when the expectation is theyre a playoff team? I mean the Lakers and their sinking ship just traded a 92 1st for Joe Dumars amd nobody batted an eye lol.

I dunno, obvioisly Im biased and theres some potential upside for me but Im not seeing the consistency here.

Have you compared Lakers and Magic's rosters?

This is so far different. (although I agree and I think Lakers got fleeced in that trade)

Plus flduck again is a newer guy to this, and obviously his team is rebuilding and struggling. Do you actually think this is a good deal for Magic? And one you'd encourage him to make? Feels like taking advantage of him personally.

I just want to say in Craig's defense, I was first approached with this deal and turned it down. Then after some time I came back to him about the deal.

[Craig]

So we're cool with old teams with no future trading future 1sts but a re-building team with a clean slate, future all star PG, and upcoming top 4 pick cant trade something years down the road when the expectation is theyre a playoff team? I mean the Lakers and their sinking ship just traded a 92 1st for Joe Dumars amd nobody batted an eye lol.

I dunno, obvioisly Im biased and theres some potential upside for me but Im not seeing the consistency here.

Have you compared Lakers and Magic's rosters?

This is so far different. (although I agree and I think Lakers got fleeced in that trade)

Plus flduck again is a newer guy to this, and obviously his team is rebuilding and struggling. Do you actually think this is a good deal for Magic? And one you'd encourage him to make? Feels like taking advantage of him personally.

You're entitled to your opinion about the valuation but please dont accuse me of that kinda stuff. I put in a lot of effort to try not to do that and have even countered offers to give others' more value before. And as a side note I was under the impression he had been around as a GM quite a while, including 1.0, but maybe thats wrong.

The reason I thought '92 was reasonable was that its plenty of time to improve the squad (while getting a piece that can help with that). Obviously theres a chance that goes awry for them so thats where the potential upside is for me but I am in no way trying to take advantage of people. Magic, if it appears that way I sincerely apologize, thats never my intent.

If its not an acceptable trade for the league, I wont make a big stink its no big deal, but wanted to squash that notion as its a little offensive. Also just offering my opinion that its not veto worthy and if it is then we need to start taking a harder look at other deals too.

[UOducksTK1]

So we're cool with old teams with no future trading future 1sts but a re-building team with a clean slate, future all star PG, and upcoming top 4 pick cant trade something years down the road when the expectation is theyre a playoff team? I mean the Lakers and their sinking ship just traded a 92 1st for Joe Dumars amd nobody batted an eye lol.

I dunno, obvioisly Im biased and theres some potential upside for me but Im not seeing the consistency here.

Have you compared Lakers and Magic's rosters?

This is so far different. (although I agree and I think Lakers got fleeced in that trade)

Plus flduck again is a newer guy to this, and obviously his team is rebuilding and struggling. Do you actually think this is a good deal for Magic? And one you'd encourage him to make? Feels like taking advantage of him personally.

You're entitled to your opinion about the valuation but please dont accuse me of that kinda stuff. I put in a lot of effort to try not to do that and have even countered offers to give others' more value before. And as a side note I was under the impression he had been around as a GM quite a while, including 1.0, but maybe thats wrong.

The reason I thought '92 was reasonable was that its plenty of time to improve the squad (while getting a piece that can help with that). Obviously theres a chance that goes awry for them so thats where the potential upside is for me but I am in no way trying to take advantage of people. Magic, if it appears that way I sincerely apologize, thats never my intent.

If its not an acceptable trade for the league, I wont make a big stink its no big deal, but wanted to squash that notion as its a little offensive. Also just offering my opinion that its not veto worthy and if it is then we need to start taking a harder look at other deals too.

I said it "feels" like that. I never said you "did" take advantage of him. I like you craig, I wouldn't toss you under so lightly.

Just don't like the vibe of the trade, wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. I honestly think what lukeyrid said was most fair, just extending the protection would give me more peace for the Magic. I still don't like it for them at all, but it would be less grievous and not veto worthy IMO.

[The Bean Regime]

2 things I'll add:

One: the best time to trade future 1sts is when you suck, as you'll get the most value for them. Classic high risk/high reward.

Two: flduck's been here for years. He's got at least 20 seasons under his belt if this were his first sim league (unless he lapsed sometime in the middle). I think it's fine to assume an understanding of FBB as well as trusting him enough to deal his future 1sts without leaving the league. Again, if he left and came back, then kinda ruins the entire point of this one.

I don't have any issues with the deal though I would prefer Sun's return to the Magic's.

[Craig]

So we're cool with old teams with no future trading future 1sts but a re-building team with a clean slate, future all star PG, and upcoming top 4 pick cant trade something years down the road when the expectation is theyre a playoff team? I mean the Lakers and their sinking ship just traded a 92 1st for Joe Dumars amd nobody batted an eye lol.

I dunno, obvioisly Im biased and theres some potential upside for me but Im not seeing the consistency here.

I'm trying to win now, so I'm willing to take the risk. And I have a plan

As in, I have star players that I could trade away for picks (including the ones I gave away). What's the Magic gonna do if Wayman doesn't resign?

I mean I get it. But why can you have a plan and he cant? lol If i thought the pick was gonna be top 3-4 I wouldnt have offered it, hence why its not the pick for this year. What does the pick need to be to be neutral or better for them? 10 or lower? Theres like 6-8 teams hard tanking every year so dont think that'd be too difficult for them lol. And its probly a win for him if he makes the playoffs at even the 8 seed for pick #14 right? I dunno I guess I was just looking at this differently.

[UOducksTK1]

We should just implement a rule that if you have single digit wins, you cannot trade firsts 4 years in the future. Start a poll.

[Oregon Ownage]

Vetoed as currently constructed

Way too lopsided, TK highlighted my thoughts of too many variables at play for this to even make sense

[the goat]

So we're cool with old teams with no future trading future 1sts but a re-building team with a clean slate, future all star PG, and upcoming top 4 pick cant trade something years down the road when the expectation is theyre a playoff team? I mean the Lakers and their sinking ship just traded a 92 1st for Joe Dumars amd nobody batted an eye lol.

I dunno, obvioisly Im biased and theres some potential upside for me but Im not seeing the consistency here.

I'm trying to win now, so I'm willing to take the risk. And I have a plan

As in, I have star players that I could trade away for picks (including the ones I gave away). What's the Magic gonna do if Wayman doesn't resign?

I mean I get it. But why can you have a plan and he cant? lol If i thought the pick was gonna be top 3-4 I wouldnt have offered it, hence why its not the pick for this year. What does the pick need to be to be neutral or better for them? 10 or lower? Theres like 6-8 teams hard tanking every year so dont think that'd be too difficult for them lol. And its probly a win for him if he makes the playoffs at even the 8 seed for pick #14 right? I dunno I guess I was just looking at this differently.

I get why you might feel frustrated because it seems pretty similar on the surface. But the record books have shown that I can put a decent team together (underachieving record and great trades aside ) while the Magic haven't shown the same track record.

I never said anything about the pick protection. I just didn't understand why a team would give up a pick so far in the future for possibly half a season of a pending free agent when they are in no position to compete. If the Bullets (just to name another rebuilding team) made the same deal I'd also think it's a risky and unnecessary trade for them.