Free Daylen Austin

[ElPatoLoco]

As a Christian who was born in Oregon, I don't want to ever leave.

I can see why living here is not the place to be as I get lots of the church from Footlose vibes when reading this string.

[Boom]

I also moved out of Oregon a few years ago. Best decision of my life.

Same. It's been almost 4 years for me.

[Phalanx]

I appreciate the thoughtful response.

We have 3 kids under 7 so I understand the fear and instinct to protect them. Ultimately, what we fear more though, is becoming white washed tombs, and raising people who are moral do gooders but could miss God if he was standing in front of them. The fact that the most sinful of society (prostitutes, tax collectors) recognized Christ while the righteous killed him is hard to ignore, and our hope is that our kids get a glimpse of the real Geez through our home and church community as we do our best to love God and neighbor in a messy place.

As for the theology, a few years ago I would’ve agreed with you. Since then I’ve been convinced of the already/not yet dynamic of the Kingdom being taught by scholars like Tim Mackie, Scot McKnight and NT Wright. Christ preached that his kingdom was “at hand” before inaugurating it through his death and resurrection. We’re now invited to participate in his cosmic restoration plan, establishing kingdom outposts in the midsts of the empires of this world, until he finally restores all things at his return.

Of course, God can call people to leave the state but generally, people I’ve known move because of politics and an attempt to isolate themselves from the world.

I appreciate your posts even if I have some arguments with them. Yeshua was not only killed by the 'righteous', there were many elements involved including political and religious leaders, scholars, and a mob of occupants of Jerusalem, likely including tax collectors and prostitutes. They were all unregenerate souls, and some came to Christ later at Pentecost (Note Peter's speech in Acts 2: "This (Yeshua) whom you crucified"). I don't think there is an argument there for not being righteous. I do agree that all righteousness is nothing without love/ compassion. I hope my children have learned both.

I think it's good to examine doctrine about the Kingdom. I actually talked with my son before responding to you and he mentioned the 'Kingdom is at hand' passages, but also the bit about His Kingdom not being of this world. I certainly don't have the theological chops to argue with luminaries like Tim Mackie, although I did have some discussions with him when we went to college together. He was just a skater kid back then who hung out in the library a lot and he used the word 'cosmic' frequently back then too, lol. I will just say that I didn't make up the strangers and aliens thing - that was also Peter. I have seen parents who insisted on sending their kids to public school in Oregon bitterly disappointed when they later rejected Christ as a result of their daily brainwashing, including a pastor friend of mine. I'm thankful that all of my kids follow the Lord, and I hope the same for yours as well. The best 'kingdom outpost' I can think of is a strong family.

[UOducksTK1]

I also moved out of Oregon a few years ago. Best decision of my life.

I know you talked about moving to Utah a few years back. Is that where you went?

Idaho. Savings at least $15,000 a year on taxes and cost of goods alone.

Housing isn’t substantially better but a brand new 5 bedroom house with 2,500 square feet and a fat yard for just over $500k. Probably $750k in Portland.

No traffic, everyone is so friendly, no one cares what you do or say.

As a minority, I feel more loved in Idaho than I ever did in Portland. They love asking me about my middle eastern background, and getting to know me. Kids here actually talk to you. Everyone is very family oriented. Eveeything is so clean. There is basically 0 crime. I didn’t know life like this existed haha. I thought every where was like Portland, but moving has opened up my mind a lot.

Utah is great to visit but just a little too Mormon for me personally. I’m sure quality of life there is great and they are nice people, but we visited Utah for a month and that vibe was a bit much for us.

[pezsez1]

I absolutely love the state of Oregon. I've lived in Portland, Bend, Eugene and Grants Pass. I love all of it. I love Portland not just for being a city with a small-town flavor, but for its proximity to so much nature... skiing, national forests, mountain lakes, waterfalls, the beach, and the high desert just a bit farther away. I've always loved the Portlander vibe, too. I've lived in CA's Central Valley and Sierra Nevada foothills as well as up in the Seattle area... folks in CA were a little too laid back, and up in Seattle they're more closed off... Portland hits it just right.

Obviously, I'm thankful for the political tilt of the Portland area. When you live in a progressive city that's always under the right wing's microscope though of course every single instance of bad progressive policy is beaten down and danced upon. (Not that that's entirely a bad thing, though, as progressive policies tend to be new/innovative, and not all innovations are rousing successes.)

In the case of Daylen Austin I have no issues with the justice system. He should have immediately called police and told them what happened. Maybe those extra minutes could have saved the guy's life? I'm sure Daylen is a good young man who didn't have bad intentions, and I'm confident that & the circumstances of this case will shield him from serious punishment if he's even convicted (which I don't think he will be). It sucks that he's entwined in this case, but the laws are there to make sure bad people are held accountable.

[dd10snoop28]

The fact that this has lasted 3 pages without going off the rails is amazing. Great job everyone involved.

This is a bit out of left field, but I have a sincere belief that the death (and life) of Charlie Kirk has inspired many with the patience/grace to have extended discourse without immediately rage-quitting. I think this thread is an example.

[dd10snoop28]

Also, people underestimate the chaos rioting between 2016-2020 in downtown Portland. No sane person would withstand the type of governance, policing, and criminal activity that emanated from the streets of downtown PDX during that time period.

I tell people in Idaho (where I also moved) that they wouldn't be able to mentally grasp the gross incompetence and willful negligence that was demonstrated by our "authorities" in Portland (and Oregon) during and throughout COVID... and even the years leading up to COVID.

Crime and chaos became secondary to our leaders (and the media) because it was for the greater good of social/racial justice. And any police officer that dared to actually uphold their duty to defend the citizens would face the ire of the DA, while that same DA dismisses the criminals that threatened the lives of those same policers officers nightly.

My best summary to an Idahoan during this time period is that we lived in a upside-down world where good was called bad, and bad was called good.

[pezsez1]

Also, people underestimate the chaos rioting between 2016-2020 in downtown Portland.

Ehhhh I'll give you 2020 of course (most of the protests were confined to a couple of blocks, but there was definitely some spillover at times into other parts of the city that were already ravaged by COVID neglect), but 2016-19 were pretty chill. I was part of many of those protests and to call them "chaos rioting" is simply not accurate. They were calm and orderly, often more festive than anything else. The one exception was the March For Our Lives demonstration in the wake of the Parkland High School massacre, in which the vibe was definitely more solemn. The only chaos I ever personally witnessed at these protests was from counter protesters, and even they weren't rioting, they were just shouting people down and being generally vile.

The protests also got much smaller over time both from protest fatigue and also because some of these demonstrations started getting Portlandified, for lack of a better term, and that was honestly kind of a turnoff for more moderate liberals like myself. That's a different discussion though that I'd rather not have here ha.

I don't want to ruin the good vibe of this thread -- I'll even generally agree with what you said about the legalization of drug crimes and how that turned out to be a terrible idea -- but wanted to set the record straight about those protests. Just like the No Kings protests this past weekend, they were fine.

[bdkipe]

I enjoyed the civil discourse. We all love each other on here, even if we go at each other from time to time.

The only reason I moved to Arizona was legitimately 40 years of being rained on and cost of living. I could care less about politics in a given state. If my career is there, if I can tolerate the climate, if housing is affordable and all my hobbies readily available year-round? I’m there baby! For sake of the argument I paid $2500 a month in rent in Hillsboro for a 1400 square foot townhome with a 10x10 yard. $2500 a month here gets you a 4 bedroom home with a pool on a golf course.

When I grew up in Portland, it was known for low crime, low traffic, low cost of living, fiscal conservative city government and socially libertarian.

Now?

- Crime is up by any statistic
- Traffic is a mess everywhere
- Housing cost ratio to take-home earnings is out of whack to the average median income
- The city/state is wildly irresponsible with funding.
- The general mood that is now the loudest went from being “live and let live” to “if you don’t join in every political protest and have 300 signs in your yard about (insert far-left ideology here) you are labeled a “nazi”. I’m sorry, I just don’t share that worldview. I support your right to peacefully assemble for whatever cause you wish, I just don’t care to spend my energy and time on that.

That’s what has impressed me about living here in AZ these last 2.5 months. There are many differing political opinions down here, both right and left, and no one fights about things. There is too much to do and people are too busy having fun in the sun. I have yet to hear an argument about politics in a restaurant or coffee shop and I would hear people arguing almost daily in public back in Portland.

There is a reason grunge originated in Seattle. There is a reason that suicide rates are higher in overcast climates.

If you are occupied, out in the sun and having fun you have less time to focus on the political nonsense and the way both the far right and far left try to turn Americans against each other as pawns in a culture war.

Down here I have found myself on social media less, eating less, more active and I don’t care as much about politics.

I do miss the trees, the mountains and the rugged beauty God created that shines through when you’re in Oregon. But I also love the desert sunrises and sunsets. They hit a lot different here. The mountains are spectacular here. The desert is a different kind of beauty. The sun is healing.

I simply got tired of being rained on. If that makes me a horrible person, so be it.

As far as for Daylen? While tragic someone lost their life the reality is had he not been threatened none of this would have happened. Should he have acted differently? Maybe. But would any of us have acted rationally at age 19 if a tweaker came out of the woods with a hammer and came after our car? Probably not. I also realize the DA probably doesn’t want the public optics to look like they are playing favorites towards UO athletes so they are likely gonna ride this out until just before trial and then drop it.

[pezsez1]

Nothing wrong with getting tired of the rain. Every time I go to California a part of me wants to stay.

[rsbgduck]

The fall of Oregon’s two party system started with the spotted owl and Cali. exploding property values. Californians had always migrated north but when they found they could get 3X the home for 1/3 of the price of their current home value it was like hitting the lottery for many Californians. They brought their Democrat vote with them, combine that with the utter destruction of the timber industry in the late 80’s and you get a perfect storm to a supermajority. Politicians wanted to listen to over educated environmentalists and their campaign donations instead of ranchers, farmers and loggers about the spotted owl and what their habitat actually consisted of. To this day you will find more spotted owls living in barns than barn owls.100’s of small timber communities shrank or turned into modern day ghost towns which drove more people (traditionally Republicans) to cities where there vote was canceled out by being outnumbered. That flipped the balance or rural Oregon having a voice in Salem. Then came redistricting and mail in voting and walla a one party supermajority state that will take an act of God to displace the 5 counties that dictate the politics of this state.

[dthomas=ddixon]

I appreciate the thoughtful response.

We have 3 kids under 7 so I understand the fear and instinct to protect them. Ultimately, what we fear more though, is becoming white washed tombs, and raising people who are moral do gooders but could miss God if he was standing in front of them. The fact that the most sinful of society (prostitutes, tax collectors) recognized Christ while the righteous killed him is hard to ignore, and our hope is that our kids get a glimpse of the real Geez through our home and church community as we do our best to love God and neighbor in a messy place.

As for the theology, a few years ago I would’ve agreed with you. Since then I’ve been convinced of the already/not yet dynamic of the Kingdom being taught by scholars like Tim Mackie, Scot McKnight and NT Wright. Christ preached that his kingdom was “at hand” before inaugurating it through his death and resurrection. We’re now invited to participate in his cosmic restoration plan, establishing kingdom outposts in the midsts of the empires of this world, until he finally restores all things at his return.

Of course, God can call people to leave the state but generally, people I’ve known move because of politics and an attempt to isolate themselves from the world.

I appreciate your posts even if I have some arguments with them. Yeshua was not only killed by the 'righteous', there were many elements involved including political and religious leaders, scholars, and a mob of occupants of Jerusalem, likely including tax collectors and prostitutes. They were all unregenerate souls, and some came to Christ later at Pentecost (Note Peter's speech in Acts 2: "This (Yeshua) whom you crucified"). I don't think there is an argument there for not being righteous. I do agree that all righteousness is nothing without love/ compassion. I hope my children have learned both.

I think it's good to examine doctrine about the Kingdom. I actually talked with my son before responding to you and he mentioned the 'Kingdom is at hand' passages, but also the bit about His Kingdom not being of this world. I certainly don't have the theological chops to argue with luminaries like Tim Mackie, although I did have some discussions with him when we went to college together. He was just a skater kid back then who hung out in the library a lot and he used the word 'cosmic' frequently back then too, lol. I will just say that I didn't make up the strangers and aliens thing - that was also Peter. I have seen parents who insisted on sending their kids to public school in Oregon bitterly disappointed when they later rejected Christ as a result of their daily brainwashing, including a pastor friend of mine. I'm thankful that all of my kids follow the Lord, and I hope the same for yours as well. The best 'kingdom outpost' I can think of is a strong family.

I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying re: the crucifixion, that just wasn’t the point I was making. My point is simply that outward, culturally approved moral behavior isn’t necessarily an indicator of genuine Christlikeness. No one was more dedicated to God’s law than the Pharisees yet they not only missed God when he was standing right in front of them, but helped engineer his execution. What I see in the right-leaning evangelicals I know is a fixation on moral behavior, which causes their withdrawal, but neglects the gentle, lowly, self-giving, love of neighbor at the heart of Christ’s teachings and life.

His Kingdom didn’t come from this world but it is undoubtedly for this world—demonstrated both by His incarnation as well as His sending of us into it. And in the “already/not yet” state of the kingdom, we are absolutely strangers/aliens/exiles in Babylon until He comes and finally restores all things. Either way, we can support our perspectives via proof-text all day long but NT Wright or Mackie can explain the theology far better than I ever will in this format. To me, the overall biblical narrative is pretty clear.

As far as anecdotes go, I can provide a handful of examples of every outcome. I personally know home schoolers who are now addicts, public schoolers who are thriving, and vice versa for both. I’m not convinced that withdrawal leads to better outcomes. Longitudinal studies (Christian Smith NSYR, Bengtson LSOG) found that neither public nor private/homeschool shows a uniform effect after you account for warm, practiced faith in the home and church formation.

That’s really cool you knew Mackie. Thanks for sharing that.

[bdkipe]

DT=DD - no shout out to the Sadducees? I tell ya what bro, I bet those wacky resurrection-deniers were a good time at all the Roman parties.

And while we are at it. What about the Judean People’s Front?

Wait, excuse me…my bad.

The People’s Front of Judea.

[Phalanx]

I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying re: the crucifixion, that just wasn’t the point I was making. My point is simply that outward, culturally approved moral behavior isn’t necessarily an indicator of genuine Christlikeness. No one was more dedicated to God’s law than the Pharisees yet they not only missed God when he was standing right in front of them, but helped engineer his execution. What I see in the right-leaning evangelicals I know is a fixation on moral behavior, which causes their withdrawal, but neglects the gentle, lowly, self-giving, love of neighbor at the heart of Christ’s teachings and life.

His Kingdom didn’t come from this world but it is undoubtedly for this world—demonstrated both by His incarnation as well as His sending of us into it. And in the “already/not yet” state of the kingdom, we are absolutely strangers/aliens/exiles in Babylon until He comes and finally restores all things. Either way, we can support our perspectives via proof-text all day long but NT Wright or Mackie can explain the theology far better than I ever will in this format. To me, the overall biblical narrative is pretty clear.

As far as anecdotes go, I can provide a handful of examples of every outcome. I personally know home schoolers who are now addicts, public schoolers who are thriving, and vice versa for both. I’m not convinced that withdrawal leads to better outcomes. Longitudinal studies (Christian Smith NSYR, Bengtson LSOG) found that neither public nor private/homeschool shows a uniform effect after you account for warm, practiced faith in the home and church formation.

That’s really cool you knew Mackie. Thanks for sharing that.

The Pharisees of the Gospels where not righteous and they were not dedicated to God's law, only keeping the appearance of it in order to preserve their positions in leadership among the Jews. Yeshua said of them that they 'were of their father, the Devil'. The right-leaning evangelicals I know are builders of families, of churches and schools, supporters of missions, and probably the chief crowdfunders of the original Bible Project among numerous other projects designed to reach the lost. They are, after all, Evangelicals. It's in the name. The comparison to Pharisees is actually pretty outrageous, a quite literal exercise in demonization. I saw similar rhetoric coming from the school Tim and I attended just before it was shuttered last year. It was a going concern for over 80 years, built by stodgy old conservatives, providing formal Bible training to generations of students, and then it literally went woke and went broke. I don't see any virtue in tearing down the brethren in this fashion, only destruction of the backbone of the church.

It's funny, my background is in a doctrinal viewpoint that has often been accused of throwing out the Old Testament. It feels like now we are seeing a new movement that throws out the Epistles. Moral behavior is a rather common topic in Paul's letters, many of which seemed to be written to combat either immorality or bad doctrine creeping into the Church. It's fine to say that a focus purely on morality without humility or loving one's neighbor falls into the 'sounding gong' category, Paul said as much himself. What seems not fine to me is throwing the brethren under the bus in order to appear more acceptable to the world, a world that John says is passing away.

Anyway, in terms of the topic, I don't have an issue with people moving if they feel like the influences around them are more than their spirit can take. It's the reason DeAnthony Thomas came to Oregon from L.A. and now that Oregon is becoming more like L.A. I am not surprised to see people leaving. If someone feels called to stay and develop a 'kingdom outpost', that's great. We haven't left yet, although I don't live in Portland. If an angel comes and pushes me out the door like Lot, I will go, but I still like the area and a lot of the things Pez likes, minus the political tilt.

[StevensTechU]

This is such an awesome football thread.