Ducks Attack Message Board Forum

Boom wrote:

UOducksTK1 wrote:

Boom wrote:

lukeyrid13 wrote:He actually averaged fewer than 8 rebounds a game and wasn't in the top 100 in the country for rebounds. He has the body to be a top rebounder but guys like Thomas Robinson averaged 5 more rebounds a game than Drummond did. If he can get the desire to get nasty on the boards than he will at least be a double double player

Ya, at the very least I think he's a starting caliber center for the Blazers.

He has the size/athleticism and shot blocking ability (2.7pg) to be a defensive presence on the court. I think he will likely average 8-10 rebounds, especially if he can improve his motor.

His offensive production will be limited to mostly offensive rebound put backs and lob passes for the first few years.

I think he's the best player & best fit that has a chance to fall to #6

I'm really nervous about taking a big with lots of upside and not much college play to back it up. I really love Drummond, but I'm not so sure that's the route Portland should take. I'd rather see us snag a PG or Kidd-Gilchrist/Barnes with the #6 pick. and get a center via fa/trade or perhaps with our later pick.

I really like the Weber State guy tbh.

I like those two small forwards as well, but I think they're likely gone.

The reason why I think they would take Drummond over lillard is that there are probably 10-15 obtainable PG's available through free agency or trade. That's not the case with big men especially ones with high upside like Drummond.

At the very least he will give them a defensive presence to take the pressure off of Lamarcus.

But taking a big man in a draft is WAY more risky than taking a SF or guard...

For once, I want a safe pick. And Portland hasn't had a real PG in forever.

UOducksTK1 wrote:

Boom wrote:

UOducksTK1 wrote:

Boom wrote:

lukeyrid13 wrote:He actually averaged fewer than 8 rebounds a game and wasn't in the top 100 in the country for rebounds. He has the body to be a top rebounder but guys like Thomas Robinson averaged 5 more rebounds a game than Drummond did. If he can get the desire to get nasty on the boards than he will at least be a double double player

Ya, at the very least I think he's a starting caliber center for the Blazers.

He has the size/athleticism and shot blocking ability (2.7pg) to be a defensive presence on the court. I think he will likely average 8-10 rebounds, especially if he can improve his motor.

His offensive production will be limited to mostly offensive rebound put backs and lob passes for the first few years.

I think he's the best player & best fit that has a chance to fall to #6

I'm really nervous about taking a big with lots of upside and not much college play to back it up. I really love Drummond, but I'm not so sure that's the route Portland should take. I'd rather see us snag a PG or Kidd-Gilchrist/Barnes with the #6 pick. and get a center via fa/trade or perhaps with our later pick.

I really like the Weber State guy tbh.

I like those two small forwards as well, but I think they're likely gone.

The reason why I think they would take Drummond over lillard is that there are probably 10-15 obtainable PG's available through free agency or trade. That's not the case with big men especially ones with high upside like Drummond.

At the very least he will give them a defensive presence to take the pressure off of Lamarcus.

But taking a big man in a draft is WAY more risky than taking a SF or guard...

For once, I want a safe pick. And Portland hasn't had a real PG in forever.

How's it more risky?

of all the potential targets, drummond excites me the least but he's still probably the safest pick at 6. does that make sense? it sounded weird typing it. i don't think he has a particularly high ceiling, but he'd probably be a fairly productive player for us in a position of need for a number of years... and as boom mentioned, it's a lot harder to add a big man through free agency than it is through the draft... but i still find myself arguing for other players.

i like lillard. if we could get kendall marshall at #11, though, i'd be pleased as punch. he's a TRUE point who can/will learn to shoot the extended j.

honestly, there's about a million scenarios where i'd probably walk away from the draft pleased.... which almost certainly means we'll blow it somehow.

i'd love to buy a pick somewhere in the 20s and get tony wroten, too.

I'd prefer Marquis Teague if we bought a late 1st but I could deal with Wroten in the early 2nd round with one of our 2 picks there

Boom wrote:

UOducksTK1 wrote:

Boom wrote:

UOducksTK1 wrote:

Boom wrote:

lukeyrid13 wrote:He actually averaged fewer than 8 rebounds a game and wasn't in the top 100 in the country for rebounds. He has the body to be a top rebounder but guys like Thomas Robinson averaged 5 more rebounds a game than Drummond did. If he can get the desire to get nasty on the boards than he will at least be a double double player

Ya, at the very least I think he's a starting caliber center for the Blazers.

He has the size/athleticism and shot blocking ability (2.7pg) to be a defensive presence on the court. I think he will likely average 8-10 rebounds, especially if he can improve his motor.

His offensive production will be limited to mostly offensive rebound put backs and lob passes for the first few years.

I think he's the best player & best fit that has a chance to fall to #6

I'm really nervous about taking a big with lots of upside and not much college play to back it up. I really love Drummond, but I'm not so sure that's the route Portland should take. I'd rather see us snag a PG or Kidd-Gilchrist/Barnes with the #6 pick. and get a center via fa/trade or perhaps with our later pick.

I really like the Weber State guy tbh.

I like those two small forwards as well, but I think they're likely gone.

The reason why I think they would take Drummond over lillard is that there are probably 10-15 obtainable PG's available through free agency or trade. That's not the case with big men especially ones with high upside like Drummond.

At the very least he will give them a defensive presence to take the pressure off of Lamarcus.

But taking a big man in a draft is WAY more risky than taking a SF or guard...

For once, I want a safe pick. And Portland hasn't had a real PG in forever.

How's it more risky?

solely based on Portland's past of taking big men over other players. I'm just saying, I'd do anything for Barnes or Kidd-Gilchrist. I think both are going to be really good players. Drummond, I'm just not sold. Shot blockers are nice, but they usually lack in rebounding/offense. Upside is his best asset. And I'm just saying that as a blazer fan, I hate that. Don't draft for upside, draft for BPA. And trade up if needed to fulfill that. If I were a GM, I'd at least try to trade up and get Barnes/KG.

oregontrack wrote:of all the potential targets, drummond excites me the least but he's still probably the safest pick at 6. does that make sense? it sounded weird typing it. i don't think he has a particularly high ceiling, but he'd probably be a fairly productive player for us in a position of need for a number of years... and as boom mentioned, it's a lot harder to add a big man through free agency than it is through the draft... but i still find myself arguing for other players.

i like lillard. if we could get kendall marshall at #11, though, i'd be pleased as punch. he's a TRUE point who can/will learn to shoot the extended j.

honestly, there's about a million scenarios where i'd probably walk away from the draft pleased.... which almost certainly means we'll blow it somehow.

i'd love to buy a pick somewhere in the 20s and get tony wroten, too.

How is he a safe pick? (not trying to come off as rude, but I'd like to understand the logic behind that)
10ppg 7.7rpg 29%FT shooting in 30mpg.

Hello top 12 pick shot blockers with limited offensive skills:
Kwame Brown
Robert Swift
Eddie Griffin
Rafael Araujo
Hasheem Thabeet
Mouhamed Sene
Greg Oden
Darko Milicic

All busts. Taking bigs freaks me out and it should freak you out too...

lotto centers since 2001:
Kwame Brown
Tyson Chandler
Eddy Curry
DeSagana Diop
Yao Ming
Nikoloz Tskitishvili
Chris Wilcox
Darko Milicic
Chris Kaman
Dwight Howard
Emeka Okafor
Rafael Araújo
Channing Frye
Andrew Bogut
Andrew Bynum
Patrick O'Bryant
JaVale McGee
Mouhamed Sene
Hilton Armstrong
Greg Oden
Spencer Hawes
Brook Lopez
Hasheem Thabeet
DeMarcus Cousins
Cole Aldrich
Jonas Valančiūnas
Enes Kanter

Howard, Okafor, Ming are all on a level beyond everyone else. So scratch them off. Outside of them, I guess Chandler and Kaman kinda panned out? Chandler is a good shot blocker, but 8ppg and 9rpg for his career. Kaman 11ppg 9rpg. Lopez is good, but he can't rebound and he plays for the Nets. Still unproven. Cousins has upside, but he is still young. So really, outside of 3 #1 picks (Okafor would have been #1 in most other drafts. And now he's terrible.), the best players lotto big men to come out of the draft are Kaman and Chandler. Honestly, both who basically on the decline after 7 years. There is literally 1 player, yes 1, who was a non-unanimous #1 pick that panned out to be a GOOD big man. Andrew Bynum. He is working his way up. But even him, he could still get injured. He is just now reaching is peek, so his next few years will be interesting to see. (and yes Amare Stoudemire could be a Center, so include him with Bynum if you must). Look at Bogut. #1 pick, and he's had some solid years, but not even close to living up to other #1 picks drafted aroud his time.. Lebron, Dwight, Bargnani, Yao, Rose, Oden(lol jk, oh another center bust!). All #1 busts are never guards or forwards, it's always big men.

Point is, Bigs are VERYYYYYYY risky picks. 85% of the time, they don't work out. I would be pleased if Drummond turns out like Chandler or Kaman, but I feel like after 5-6 years, we won't hear his name very much.

UOducksTK1 wrote:
How is he a safe pick? (not trying to come off as rude, but I'd like to understand the logic behind that)
10ppg 7.7rpg 29%FT shooting in 30mpg.

Hello top 12 pick shot blockers with limited offensive skills:
Kwame Brown
Robert Swift
Eddie Griffin
Rafael Araujo
Hasheem Thabeet
Mouhamed Sene
Greg Oden
Darko Milicic

All busts. Taking bigs freaks me out and it should freak you out too...

lotto centers since 2001:
Kwame Brown
Tyson Chandler
Eddy Curry
DeSagana Diop
Yao Ming
Nikoloz Tskitishvili
Chris Wilcox
Darko Milicic
Chris Kaman
Dwight Howard
Emeka Okafor
Rafael Araújo
Channing Frye
Andrew Bogut
Andrew Bynum
Patrick O'Bryant
JaVale McGee
Mouhamed Sene
Hilton Armstrong
Greg Oden
Spencer Hawes
Brook Lopez
Hasheem Thabeet
DeMarcus Cousins
Cole Aldrich
Jonas Valančiūnas
Enes Kanter

Howard, Okafor, Ming are all on a level beyond everyone else. So scratch them off. Outside of them, I guess Chandler and Kaman kinda panned out? Chandler is a good shot blocker, but 8ppg and 9rpg for his career. Kaman 11ppg 9rpg. Lopez is good, but he can't rebound and he plays for the Nets. Still unproven. Cousins has upside, but he is still young. So really, outside of 3 #1 picks (Okafor would have been #1 in most other drafts. And now he's terrible.), the best players lotto big men to come out of the draft are Kaman and Chandler. Honestly, both who basically on the decline after 7 years. There is literally 1 player, yes 1, who was a non-unanimous #1 pick that panned out to be a GOOD big man. Andrew Bynum. He is working his way up. But even him, he could still get injured. He is just now reaching is peek, so his next few years will be interesting to see. (and yes Amare Stoudemire could be a Center, so include him with Bynum if you must). Look at Bogut. #1 pick, and he's had some solid years, but not even close to living up to other #1 picks drafted aroud his time.. Lebron, Dwight, Bargnani, Yao, Rose, Oden(lol jk, oh another center bust!). All #1 busts are never guards or forwards, it's always big men.

Point is, Bigs are VERYYYYYYY risky picks. 85% of the time, they don't work out. I would be pleased if Drummond turns out like Chandler or Kaman, but I feel like after 5-6 years, we won't hear his name very much.

some of those players are actually pretty good (i'd love to sign spencer hawes away from philly) and some are still too young to really get a good read on, but sure, there are plenty of big men busts. my point was more that by the time we pick @ #6, the elite crew will likely be gone. if not drummond, our choices are two highly risky shooting guards (rivers, lamb), a risky point guard who may or may not be a point guard (lillard), another risky big man (leonard), or a guy like terrance ross, who we don't really need/and or really shouldn't be taken that high anyway. i mean, if a beal or barnes or kidd-gilchrist fall to us at #6, i'm totally on board. but i actually think drummond is the least risky pick of any of the (reasonable) selections likely to be available. with lma around we don't really need drummond to be a volume scorer.

Sounds like Sullinger has a bad back, and talk is he may drop to the 2nd round. I wouldn't be opposed to trding back into the late 1st round and taking him.

UOducksTK1 wrote:

oregontrack wrote:of all the potential targets, drummond excites me the least but he's still probably the safest pick at 6. does that make sense? it sounded weird typing it. i don't think he has a particularly high ceiling, but he'd probably be a fairly productive player for us in a position of need for a number of years... and as boom mentioned, it's a lot harder to add a big man through free agency than it is through the draft... but i still find myself arguing for other players.

i like lillard. if we could get kendall marshall at #11, though, i'd be pleased as punch. he's a TRUE point who can/will learn to shoot the extended j.

honestly, there's about a million scenarios where i'd probably walk away from the draft pleased.... which almost certainly means we'll blow it somehow.

i'd love to buy a pick somewhere in the 20s and get tony wroten, too.

How is he a safe pick? (not trying to come off as rude, but I'd like to understand the logic behind that)
10ppg 7.7rpg 29%FT shooting in 30mpg.

Hello top 12 pick shot blockers with limited offensive skills:
Kwame Brown
Robert Swift
Eddie Griffin
Rafael Araujo
Hasheem Thabeet
Mouhamed Sene
Greg Oden
Darko Milicic

All busts. Taking bigs freaks me out and it should freak you out too...

lotto centers since 2001:
Kwame Brown
Tyson Chandler
Eddy Curry
DeSagana Diop
Yao Ming
Nikoloz Tskitishvili
Chris Wilcox
Darko Milicic
Chris Kaman
Dwight Howard
Emeka Okafor
Rafael Araújo
Channing Frye
Andrew Bogut
Andrew Bynum
Patrick O'Bryant
JaVale McGee
Mouhamed Sene
Hilton Armstrong
Greg Oden
Spencer Hawes
Brook Lopez
Hasheem Thabeet
DeMarcus Cousins
Cole Aldrich
Jonas Valančiūnas
Enes Kanter

These guys are all starters or significant rotation players... that's what the Blazers need.

You're also missing Derrick Favors and Greg Monroe from the 2010 draft.

UOducksTK1 wrote:Howard, Okafor, Ming are all on a level beyond everyone else. So scratch them off. Outside of them, I guess Chandler and Kaman kinda panned out? Chandler is a good shot blocker, but 8ppg and 9rpg for his career. Kaman 11ppg 9rpg. Lopez is good, but he can't rebound and he plays for the Nets. Still unproven. Cousins has upside, but he is still young. So really, outside of 3 #1 picks (Okafor would have been #1 in most other drafts. And now he's terrible.), the best players lotto big men to come out of the draft are Kaman and Chandler. Honestly, both who basically on the decline after 7 years. There is literally 1 player, yes 1, who was a non-unanimous #1 pick that panned out to be a GOOD big man. Andrew Bynum. He is working his way up. But even him, he could still get injured. He is just now reaching is peek, so his next few years will be interesting to see. (and yes Amare Stoudemire could be a Center, so include him with Bynum if you must). Look at Bogut. #1 pick, and he's had some solid years, but not even close to living up to other #1 picks drafted aroud his time.. Lebron, Dwight, Bargnani, Yao, Rose, Oden(lol jk, oh another center bust!). All #1 busts are never guards or forwards, it's always big men.

Point is, Bigs are VERYYYYYYY risky picks. 85% of the time, they don't work out. I would be pleased if Drummond turns out like Chandler or Kaman, but I feel like after 5-6 years, we won't hear his name very much.

We're not drafting at #1 and there is always a huge drop off after the first couple of picks. Everyone has question marks and are relatively equal risk.

Even MKG (can't shoot) and Barnes (questionable motor) have serious question marks... I think Nic Batum would get drafted/preferred over those guys if that was an option.

I actually think Damian Lillard is the riskiest option in the lottery... You have to consider that the expectations for a starting PG is much higher than a starting center.

And Lillard is a combo guard not a true PG in college who played against week competition.

Here's a good breakdown of Lillard
http://www.blazersedge.com/2012/6/20/31 ... an-lillard

I would take him at #11 in a heartbeat, but I don't think it's a good move at 6. Especially with all of the free agent PGs.

Lillard was asked to do more scoring his SR year due to Weber State having several injuries that made him their go-to scorer. I actually wouldn't mind him as the 6th pick because I think he's more likely to help get this team turned around than Drummond will. Drummond is at least 2-4 years away from helping out in a major way while Lillard will most likely contribute right away.

greenyellow wrote:Lillard was asked to do more scoring his SR year due to Weber State having several injuries that made him their go-to scorer. I actually wouldn't mind him as the 6th pick because I think he's more likely to help get this team turned around than Drummond will. Drummond is at least 2-4 years away from helping out in a major way while Lillard will most likely contribute right away.

Do you think Lillard is a significant upgrade over guys like Aaron Brooks, Kyle Lowrly, Goran Dragic, Darren Collison, or Eric Bledsoe?


As far as centers go.... unless we make a ridiculous offer to Roy Hilbert... are best options are Spencer Hawes (who will likely get overpaid) or Omer Asik.

Boom wrote:

greenyellow wrote:Lillard was asked to do more scoring his SR year due to Weber State having several injuries that made him their go-to scorer. I actually wouldn't mind him as the 6th pick because I think he's more likely to help get this team turned around than Drummond will. Drummond is at least 2-4 years away from helping out in a major way while Lillard will most likely contribute right away.

Do you think Lillard is a significant upgrade over guys like Aaron Brooks, Kyle Lowrly, Goran Dragic, Darren Collison, or Eric Bledsoe?


As far as centers go.... unless we make a ridiculous offer to Roy Hilbert... are best options are Spencer Hawes (who will likely get overpaid) or Omer Asik.

Portland isn't exactly a FA hotspot so it's very likely none of those top FA even consider Portland, although I believe that Aaron Brooks would likely jump at the chance to come home to the NW. I also think Portland can get a center later in the draft that will contribute as much as Drummond will early on. With Drummond, his draft position is all based on potential that may or may not shake out. You have to remember that the Blazers have trade assets in Crawford, 2 second-round draft picks, and the rights to Joel Freeland. Those would allow Portland to possibly move up for another 1st rounder, albeit probably a late one, to draft a center.

Drummond didn't put up good stats but he is also still only 18 and was skipped his senior year of HS. All of the busts up there like Araujo, Thabeet etc are typically slower and unathletic. Drummond is an athletic freak and if he gets his motor he will at least be a poor mans Bynum and could very conceivably reach same level as Bynum if he wants it.

oregontrack wrote:

UOducksTK1 wrote:
How is he a safe pick? (not trying to come off as rude, but I'd like to understand the logic behind that)
10ppg 7.7rpg 29%FT shooting in 30mpg.

Hello top 12 pick shot blockers with limited offensive skills:
Kwame Brown
Robert Swift
Eddie Griffin
Rafael Araujo
Hasheem Thabeet
Mouhamed Sene
Greg Oden
Darko Milicic

All busts. Taking bigs freaks me out and it should freak you out too...

lotto centers since 2001:
Kwame Brown
Tyson Chandler
Eddy Curry
DeSagana Diop
Yao Ming
Nikoloz Tskitishvili
Chris Wilcox
Darko Milicic
Chris Kaman
Dwight Howard
Emeka Okafor
Rafael Araújo
Channing Frye
Andrew Bogut
Andrew Bynum
Patrick O'Bryant
JaVale McGee
Mouhamed Sene
Hilton Armstrong
Greg Oden
Spencer Hawes
Brook Lopez
Hasheem Thabeet
DeMarcus Cousins
Cole Aldrich
Jonas Valančiūnas
Enes Kanter

Howard, Okafor, Ming are all on a level beyond everyone else. So scratch them off. Outside of them, I guess Chandler and Kaman kinda panned out? Chandler is a good shot blocker, but 8ppg and 9rpg for his career. Kaman 11ppg 9rpg. Lopez is good, but he can't rebound and he plays for the Nets. Still unproven. Cousins has upside, but he is still young. So really, outside of 3 #1 picks (Okafor would have been #1 in most other drafts. And now he's terrible.), the best players lotto big men to come out of the draft are Kaman and Chandler. Honestly, both who basically on the decline after 7 years. There is literally 1 player, yes 1, who was a non-unanimous #1 pick that panned out to be a GOOD big man. Andrew Bynum. He is working his way up. But even him, he could still get injured. He is just now reaching is peek, so his next few years will be interesting to see. (and yes Amare Stoudemire could be a Center, so include him with Bynum if you must). Look at Bogut. #1 pick, and he's had some solid years, but not even close to living up to other #1 picks drafted aroud his time.. Lebron, Dwight, Bargnani, Yao, Rose, Oden(lol jk, oh another center bust!). All #1 busts are never guards or forwards, it's always big men.

Point is, Bigs are VERYYYYYYY risky picks. 85% of the time, they don't work out. I would be pleased if Drummond turns out like Chandler or Kaman, but I feel like after 5-6 years, we won't hear his name very much.

some of those players are actually pretty good (i'd love to sign spencer hawes away from philly) and some are still too young to really get a good read on, but sure, there are plenty of big men busts. my point was more that by the time we pick @ #6, the elite crew will likely be gone. if not drummond, our choices are two highly risky shooting guards (rivers, lamb), a risky point guard who may or may not be a point guard (lillard), another risky big man (leonard), or a guy like terrance ross, who we don't really need/and or really shouldn't be taken that high anyway. i mean, if a beal or barnes or kidd-gilchrist fall to us at #6, i'm totally on board. but i actually think drummond is the least risky pick of any of the (reasonable) selections likely to be available. with lma around we don't really need drummond to be a volume scorer.

See and that's where I disagree, with a #6 pick, I would not take someone like Spencer Hawes. I don't want 8ppg and 6rpg and 1bpg. And you bolded Channing Frye... Dude was garbage at Portland, and while he found a perfect fit in the Suns, he is still a terrible Center. A SF in a Center body, who really can't do anything but sit on the 3point line and jack up 3pointers. A poor man's Al Harrington.

Draft a big later OR go FA/trade route. There's plenty of servicable centers who can put up 7ppg 10rpg 1-2bpg. You don't waste a #6 pick on it.

My 2 cents. We will see...

UOducksTK1 wrote: See and that's where I disagree, with a #6 pick, I would not take someone like Spencer Hawes. I don't want 8ppg and 6rpg and 1bpg. And you bolded Channing Frye... Dude was garbage at Portland, and while he found a perfect fit in the Suns, he is still a terrible Center. A SF in a Center body, who really can't do anything but sit on the 3point line and jack up 3pointers. A poor man's Al Harrington.

Draft a big later OR go FA/trade route. There's plenty of servicable centers who can put up 7ppg 10rpg 1-2bpg. You don't waste a #6 pick on it.

My 2 cents. We will see...

No there's not
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... asontype/3