A Little Inside Info

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VinnyKnuckles
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by VinnyKnuckles »

duckgrad99 wrote:I apologize, I didn't mean to sound harsh. But the point is, Gonzaga does more with less.
Many people would simply not agree with this statement. Mark Few took over a program that was already very good and in much better shape than the program Ernie took over. In fact, the coach before Few (Monson) actually made it to the Elite 8 the season before he left, a feat Few has not yet duplicated in the 10 years following (maybe this is the year?). Eight of the top ten players on that Elite 8 team returned the following season, so it is not like the cupboard was left bare for Few either. How far has Few elevated the program above where it was already at? Furthermore, Few has had a much newer and much nicer basketball facility to work with at Gonzaga than Ernie has had to deal with at Oregon. That will obviously be changing in the near future. Although Gonzaga isn't able to sell recruits on playing in a major conference, they do enjoy a bit of a recruiting edge for certain recruits due to the religious angle and it is obviously much easier to consistently win in their weaker conference, thus they are able to sell their consistently winning program to recruits. Is there really any reason to believe any decent basketball coach would not continue to win at Gonzaga if they replaced Few, just like Few continued to win when he replaced Monson? Gonzaga is to college basketball what Boise State is to college football. Both are bullies in their weaker conferences. Coaches come, coaches go, they just keep on winning. The coaches that leave don't have much success when they try to step up to a higher level (see Monson and Hawkins).

Like I said before, I am not a Few hater. However, saying he has had less to work with during his tenure at Gonzaga is debatable.
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by Boom »

duckgrad99 wrote:
VinnyKnuckles wrote:
duckgrad99 wrote:For all the Mark Few haters, how about Gonzaga now?
Let me preface this by stating I am not a Mark Few hater.

That being said, is Gonzaga in the Elite 8 yet? There isn't really much ammunition to use against Mark Few haters until then.


I apologize, I didn't mean to sound harsh. But the point is, Gonzaga does more with less. Oregon more often that not has done less with more under Kent. This is just my opinion, but I think any coach could have gotten Oregon to the elite 8's with players like Luke Jackson, Luke Ridnour, Aaron Brooks, etc. I'm not saying Few is the answer if Kent is gone, but if Kent's such a great recruiter like many people say he is, where are the consistent results?
Your statement completely contradicts itself. Saying any coach can get to the elite eight with players like Luke Jackson, Luke Ridnour, Aaron Brooks, ect. and they say Kent is not a good recruiter...... :roll:

Gonzaga and Oregon have had pretty much equal level talent the past 10 years.

I don't think Ernie is necessary better that Mark Few I just think Mark Few is more of a lateral move.
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Re: A Little Inside Info

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Boom wrote:
duckgrad99 wrote:
VinnyKnuckles wrote:


I apologize, I didn't mean to sound harsh. But the point is, Gonzaga does more with less. Oregon more often that not has done less with more under Kent. This is just my opinion, but I think any coach could have gotten Oregon to the elite 8's with players like Luke Jackson, Luke Ridnour, Aaron Brooks, etc. I'm not saying Few is the answer if Kent is gone, but if Kent's such a great recruiter like many people say he is, where are the consistent results?
Your statement completely contradicts itself. Saying any coach can get to the elite eight with players like Luke Jackson, Luke Ridnour, Aaron Brooks, ect. and they say Kent is not a good recruiter...... :roll:

Gonzaga and Oregon have had pretty much equal level talent the past 10 years.

I don't think Ernie is necessary better that Mark Few I just think Mark Few is more of a lateral move.
He's saying that Kent's not a great recruiter because he's not consistent. Yes, we've had some good players while he's been here, but do we have consistently talented basketball teams? I don't really agree with him as to whether we should fire Kent (yet), but there's no contradiction. Obviously Kent can bring in good players, and when he has, we've done reasonably well (and every once in a while very well). But Kent hasn't been able to produce consistently good teams, proving he's not that great of a recruiter (or at least a talent evaluator)
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by duckgrad99 »

Few may very well be a lateral move, and I'm certainly no expert as to who would be a good hire and who wouldn't if Kent wasn't brought back. Also, even though I'm one of the "fire Kent people", I certainly understand those that want to keep him. At the same time, I think expectations need to be raised, especially with the new arena on the way. Kent was already on the hot seat a few years ago, and I don't think going 18-14 and then 8-23 or whatever it was is good enough, especially with all of the talent we have had. Personally, I would rather go to the tourny every year then go 1 out of every 4 or 5 years going to the elite 8. I just want the basketball program held to the same standards as the football program. If the football team went 6-6 and then 2-10, changes would be guaranteed. I don't think people would be happy with a BCS game one season and then no bowl game for the next 3 seasons. To me, a sign of a good coach is consistency. So while Kent has definitely gotten Oregon basketball going, I think there is a lot of room for improvement. While I don't know who the next coach should be, I want someone that doesn't make excuses, makes adjustments, can teach defense and can be on the same page with his players and get them to play hard for 40 minutes.
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by droop10 »

One thing about Few and Kent's success in the tourney is that Kent has had easier roads to the Elite Eight than Few. No matter how dominant Gonzaga is in the regular season they always fall in the 4-6 seed range rather than the 2 and 3 seeds that Oregon was when they made the Elite 8. Not to take anything away from the last team, but they did have possibly the easiest road the elite 8 that I've seen for a while. Now I don't hate Kent or anything. I would be content whether it was him or someone else coming back next year. I'm just excited about seeing the group improve. I just think that the Few bashers are a little off base. For instance this year. They dominated in the regular season, but now play UNC in the sweet 16. I'm sure they will put up a hell of a fight and possibly win, but it's a bit different than playing UNLV in the sweet 16. If he had that kind of regular season at Oregon they'd at least be a 2 or 3 seed which is a much easier road to the tourney. Few is a good coach, and I certainly wouldn't be unhappy if he came to Oregon. I trust Kilkenny and Belotti. They will bring somebody in that will do a great job if Kent is in fact let go in the next couple weeks.
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by ghetarr2007 »

I also don't see the big knock on Few never making the Elite 8. Gonzaga's road to the Elite 8 almost always involves taking down a #1 seed because the best they usually get is a 4. They SHOULD lose that game every year, and they do. One exception that comes to mind is when they had Adam Morrison and were a 3 against UCLA who was a 2 with Jordan Farmar. That game was theirs, but it slipped away in the final seconds. That team was easily Few's best shot to make the elite 8.
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by karlhungis »

I don't really understand why people are so focused on Kent and his potential replacements Elite 8 record.

I admit that I am not the most avid college basketball fan so maybe I am being naive here but a simple eye ball test shows that Few is a far superior coach to Kent. Just watch both teams play. Few's teams always seem to run what appears to be an offense and they also somehow manage to play defense. Kent's teams often look like a bunch of guys who have never played together, that are just out there jacking up 3's all game.

Kent had a few good runs but I give a lot more credit to Brooks and Rid than I do to Kent.
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by dudefromor »

did any of you guys click the link and check out the guy's bio i posted?

pretty impressive resume if you ask me.
"Jeremiah Masoli took home the game's offensive most outstanding player award and then broke into song. Kidding."
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Re: A Little Inside Info

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karlhungis wrote:I don't really understand why people are so focused on Kent and his potential replacements Elite 8 record.
Probably the same reason people focus on NBA coaches that win in the playoffs. That is kinda the entire point of playing each season.
karlhungis wrote:Kent had a few good runs but I give a lot more credit to Brooks and Rid than I do to Kent.
This same argument can be made about every coach that has ever coached. Phil Jackson only won because he had Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, etc. Pat Riley only won because he had Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Dwyane Wade, etc. Who would have thunk it.....players greatly dictate the outcome of basketball games.
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Re: A Little Inside Info

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dudefromor wrote:did any of you guys click the link and check out the guy's bio i posted?

pretty impressive resume if you ask me.
I checked it out. Playing devil's advocate, here are a few points...

* His record as a head coach at a lower level isn't terribly impressive.

* He is a good assistant basketball recruiter at Kansas. That is like being a good assistant football recruiter at USC. Who doesn't recruit good at those schools? Ed Orgeron was a great recruiter at USC.....that didn't seem to help him much at Ole Miss.

* He looks kinda goofy and his name is kinda goofy. I'm not sure I want him as the face of the program. ;)

Other than that, I say sign him up. :D
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by Boom »

ghetarr2007 wrote:I also don't see the big knock on Few never making the Elite 8. Gonzaga's road to the Elite 8 almost always involves taking down a #1 seed because the best they usually get is a 4. They SHOULD lose that game every year, and they do. One exception that comes to mind is when they had Adam Morrison and were a 3 against UCLA who was a 2 with Jordan Farmar. That game was theirs, but it slipped away in the final seconds. That team was easily Few's best shot to make the elite 8.
I think that game sums up my opinion of Mark Few. No way they should have lost that game. Especially with having the best player in college basketball that year on their roster.

People would be screaming at Ernie if that happened to us.
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by karlhungis »

So do the Kent supporters think that he would have been able to take Gonzaga to the sweet 16 this year?
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by dudefromor »

VinnyKnuckles wrote:I checked it out. Playing devil's advocate, here are a few points...

* His record as a head coach at a lower level isn't terribly impressive.

* He is a good assistant basketball recruiter at Kansas. That is like being a good assistant football recruiter at USC. Who doesn't recruit good at those schools? Ed Orgeron was a great recruiter at USC.....that didn't seem to help him much at Ole Miss.

* He looks kinda goofy and his name is kinda goofy. I'm not sure I want him as the face of the program. ;)

Other than that, I say sign him up. :D
haha thanks vinny.

my friend says the guy is like a guy in the mafia. talked about how at the mizzou vs ku game when ku went up big and everyone was happy, this coach was staring someone down on the mizzou bench lol. so he has good intensity for a goofy looking guy i guess hehe.

i also understand your recruiting point. however, read between the lines in his profile. it says there were 5 nba draftees in one draft which never happend before at ku. so if what your saying is true then this should have happend all the time regarding how easy it is to recruit for kansas.

touche ;)
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VinnyKnuckles
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by VinnyKnuckles »

dudefromor wrote:my friend says the guy is like a guy in the mafia. talked about how at the mizzou vs ku game when ku went up big and everyone was happy, this coach was staring someone down on the mizzou bench lol. so he has good intensity for a goofy looking guy i guess hehe.
He is from New Jersey so I believe it. :)
dudefromor wrote: i also understand your recruiting point. however, read between the lines in his profile. it says there were 5 nba draftees in one draft which never happend before at ku. so if what your saying is true then this should have happend all the time regarding how easy it is to recruit for kansas.
Actually, it says "a record-tying five in the 2008 draft." So, it had been done before at Kansas. Still, I hear what you are saying. I am sure Joe deserves a significant slice of the credit for the large amount of talent that has been brought to Kansas since he has been there, but let's keep in mind he is just one of several assistants that recruits on the staff and the most important coach of all (the head coach) played a role in recruiting those players as well. I don't doubt Joe knows how to recruit, I just wonder how much of it would carry over when he is the head coach instead of an assistant coach at a school that doesn't have the history of Kansas.

Anyway, Joe Dooley could be the next big thing in the world of college basketball for all I know. I didn't have much of a clue who he was until I read his profile, so I am certainly no expert on him. He doesn't really excite me much on the surface, to be honest, but if the powers that be think he is a good option, I would have no problem supporting him.....goofy looks/name and all. ;)
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Re: A Little Inside Info

Post by nogerO »

dthomas=ddixon wrote:1997-1998 Kentucky 35-4 14-2 1st NCAA Champions
1998-1999 Kentucky 28-9 11-5 3rd NCAA Elite 8
1999-2000 Kentucky 23-10 12-4 T-1st NCAA Round 2
2000–2001 Kentucky 24-10 12-4 T-1st NCAA Sweet 16
2001–2002 Kentucky 22-10 10-6 T-2nd NCAA Sweet 16
2002–2003 Kentucky 32-4 16-0 1st NCAA Elite 8
2003–2004 Kentucky 27-5 13-3 2nd NCAA Round 2
2004–2005 Kentucky 28-6 14-2 1st NCAA Elite 8
2005–2006 Kentucky 22-13 9-7 6th NCAA Round 2
2006–2007 Kentucky 22-12 9-7 4th NCAA Round 2

He definitely won the title & went to the Elite 8 with someone else's players. And after that, he never got back to the previously high level. He really hasn't had that much more success than Kent. Obviously more tourney appearances & wins but that comes with being at Kentucky compared to Oregon. Ultimately though, he has 2 Elite 8's just like Kent.

swagnatic101 makes some good points & I'm not so sure I'm as high on Smith as I was. I still think it would be an upgrade from Kent but I think we can do better.

"He really hasn't had that much more success than Kent." ???

1997-1998 Kentucky 35-4 14-2 1st NCAA Champions
1998-1999 Kentucky 28-9 11-5 3rd NCAA Elite 8
1999-2000 Kentucky 23-10 12-4 T-1st NCAA Round 2
2000–2001 Kentucky 24-10 12-4 T-1st NCAA Sweet 16
2001–2002 Kentucky 22-10 10-6 T-2nd NCAA Sweet 16
2002–2003 Kentucky 32-4 16-0 1st NCAA Elite 8
2003–2004 Kentucky 27-5 13-3 2nd NCAA Round 2
2004–2005 Kentucky 28-6 14-2 1st NCAA Elite 8
2005–2006 Kentucky 22-13 9-7 6th NCAA Round 2
2006–2007 Kentucky 22-12 9-7 4th NCAA Round 2

You post the above and then make that comment??? 10 Straight years in the big dance and a National Championship???

Do you really like EK that much? :roll:
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