Ducks Attack Message Board Forum

I'm pretty sure that a large portion of the 8.3% unemployed people in our country would line up for that job under the old salary.

wheaton4prez wrote:I'm pretty sure that a large portion of the 8.3% unemployed people in our country would line up for that job under the old salary.

+1

MFRDuckFan wrote:

Duck24 wrote:

UOducksTK1 wrote:

Duck24 wrote:Suspect calls all game, that is for sure but it was only a matter of time until something like this happened. Even the regular refs make horrible calls during the course of the game, which is something a lot of people are overlooking. The biggest difference between a horrible PI call in the 2nd quarter and a blown call on the last play of the game is that everyone remembers the last play. Regardless though, GB got absolutely screwed. Goodell and the owners better be pulling for the Packers to not miss the playoffs by 1 game, lose home field advantage by 1 game etc.

I feel absolutely awful for these replacement refs though. These guys are getting absolutely killed in the media for doing the best job they can. It is easy to criticize them from your couch but they are still doing a better job than 99% of people could do. The NFL put these guys in a situation that everyone knew they would fail. To me, asking these D3, NAIA, Lingerie League refs to try and ref NFL games is akin to asking the QB at your local high school to go up and play QB for an NFL team. Would you expect the QB to succeed? Absolutely not so why is it any different with these refs?

Blame the NFL, not the refs.

Agreed. Unfortunately, a majority of people are blaming the refs. If Josh Morgan on the Redskins is getting death threats for a stupid penalty, it is only a matter of time until someone who takes sports too seriously does something to one of these refs.

I find it absurd that the NFL would even put these guys in this situation. I am not calling for the NFL to cave to the Officials Union because they are absolutely correct in their stance. The normal refs need a reality check. The salary for a first year ref was $78K last year. The average ref made $149K. $78K starting salary for a part-time job? A job where they pay for your travel, pay for your rental car, hotel etc. Give me a break. I understand that they have a highly specialized job but good lord. And now they want a pension with a guaranteed benefit. Ridiculous. Rant over.

Sorry, I don't agree with you. $149K is pittance compared to what the players & the owners make. The owners make BILLIONS of dollars, billions off of this game (off of us really) so they endanger the players and make a mockery out of the league over a few dollars. They can easily afford to cough up a bit more. The NFL refs do have a highly specialized job & as we all know too well, they are a valuable part of this game. I can't imagine having to live in a hotel for a good portion of the year & basically having NO home life.

The amount of money the owners/league makes has no bearing on what the officials should be paid. Think of it this way, if you are a business owner and you are posting record profits, regardless if your record profit is thousands or millions, are you going to contractually obligate yourself to give substantial raises on top of a guaranteed benefit pension plan (as opposed to guaranteed contribution) to part time employees? Considering that the NFL has numerous class action lawsuits against them that could potentially result in decisions against the league in the hundreds of millions of dollars, I don't blame them for not budging. Why would the league give part time employees a pension plan that guarantees 8% returns, which is what the refs are asking for? Who can honestly say that, year after year, they make 8% returns? If you want a prime example of why you don't do that, looks at the current state of PERS in Oregon. When you are making a killing in the stock market, it is great. But when you lose 25% in one quarter, then you have to deal with unfunded liabilities.

As much as people think the refs have the upper hand because of last night, they are wrong. Even though Goodell and the owners are being killed right now, what is the trending topic in the media right now, positive or not? The NFL. More page hits on ESPN, more message board postings, more tweets etc. Is anyone really going to stop watching or going to the games because the officiating is bad? Did Duck fans stop going to games because of the atrocious reffing in the PAC-12? Did Oklahoma fans stop going after they were screwed out of the game in 2006? Didn't think so. What about last year when the regular refs cost San Diego a game against Denver? Fans will always come back. Also, the league isn't going to lose money over this. They already have their TV contracts and a majority of tickets to games have been sold. The general populous is too lazy/apathetic to do anything that would actually hurt the NFL.

I find it interesting that some of you are just siding with the owners without delving into what they're really up to. You call it NEGOTIATING by coming to the table and working things out. And to several who have said there are plenty of unemployed people ready to take the job & the refs should be happy with what they have..........well, that can be said about each and every one of you too and your own jobs. So how would you feel if your boss (who rakes in big, big bucks) comes to you and says you are never going to get a raise (even when the cost of everything else goes up) and if you do ask, I'll just grab somebody from the mail room to fill your spot. You should be happy with what you have. That's exactly what you're asking these refs to do.

I guess this is "LET'S BUST THE UNION AT ALL COSTS HERE IN AMERICA" now. Okay, rant over.


http://www.thenation.com/blog/169593/wh ... s-all-game

"Look at the demands being made of the referees: NFL owners want them to stop being part-time labor and instead work full-time for the league. Sounds great, except they want the refs to eliminate their other sources of income while taking a 16 percent cut in salary. They also want to eliminate their pensions and replace them with 401k plans tied to the stock market. Put simply, the owners line is less pay, less benefits, and if you don’t like it we’re locking the doors.

“They told us if we didn’t take what was on the table, they would cut it more and they have. They have disguised regressive bargaining as trying to improve officiating overall and to give people more time off,” said NFL Referee’s Association lead negotiator Mike Arnold. “They keep saying in the media that they were willing, able, and ready to negotiate, but they kept telling us they weren’t interested in discussing our proposal and if the deal was going to settle it was going to settle on their terms.”

MFRDuckFan wrote:I find it interesting that some of you are just siding with the owners without delving into what they're really up to. You call it NEGOTIATING by coming to the table and working things out. And to several who have said there are plenty of unemployed people ready to take the job & the refs should be happy with what they have..........well, that can be said about each and every one of you too and your own jobs. So how would you feel if your boss (who rakes in big, big bucks) comes to you and says you are never going to get a raise (even when the cost of everything else goes up) and if you do ask, I'll just grab somebody from the mail room to fill your spot. You should be happy with what you have. That's exactly what you're asking these refs to do.

I guess this is "LET'S BUST THE UNION AT ALL COSTS HERE IN AMERICA" now. Okay, rant over.


http://www.thenation.com/blog/169593/wh ... s-all-game

"Look at the demands being made of the referees: NFL owners want them to stop being part-time labor and instead work full-time for the league. Sounds great, except they want the refs to eliminate their other sources of income while taking a 16 percent cut in salary. They also want to eliminate their pensions and replace them with 401k plans tied to the stock market. Put simply, the owners line is less pay, less benefits, and if you don’t like it we’re locking the doors.

“They told us if we didn’t take what was on the table, they would cut it more and they have. They have disguised regressive bargaining as trying to improve officiating overall and to give people more time off,” said NFL Referee’s Association lead negotiator Mike Arnold. “They keep saying in the media that they were willing, able, and ready to negotiate, but they kept telling us they weren’t interested in discussing our proposal and if the deal was going to settle it was going to settle on their terms.”

I despise Unions, yes, but my opinion on the matter isn't derived from that. Coincidentally, I am also a member of a union due to where I work...not my choice. The NFL is offering to increase the average pay for first year officials from the $79K it was in 2011 to $165K by 2018. The average pay for all officials would increase from $149K in 2011 to $189K in 2018. Not too sure how that is considered a pay cut.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nfl/stor ... lar-season

According to ESPN.com's Darren Rovell, the average pay for NFL game officials last season was $149,000. Under the NFL's last proposal, that would increase to more than $189,000 by 2018. In addition, a game official in his first year in 2011 made an average of $78,000. Under the NFL's last proposal, he would make more than $165,000 by the end of the new agreement.

Regarding the pension issue, no business in their right mind should give a defined benefit retirement plan. Why, as a business owner, would you tie yourself up like that? Look at how many businesses/corporations are currently in a financial mess because of the overbearing burden of pension deals of the past. Just because a business is in solid financial footing now, doesn't mean they always will be. I know it is unfeasible to think that the NFL will ever have an issue with money but I am willing to bet people said the same thing about GM 30-40 years ago. At the end of the day, the NFL has to do what it can to protect its financial interests and that is what they are doing. Again, regardless of who is officiating the game, people will still watch, they will still go to the games and they will still buy jerseys/hats/shirts and other apparel. As soon as the NFL feels that these officials are hurting their bottom line, they will act.

4-2 after beating Mr. Uggz for Men. whoo!

I got the seahawks D for my fantasy, they are amazing. You know when Walter's coming back? I know he got hurt last year, did he tear his acl?

thomas time wrote:I got the seahawks D for my fantasy, they are amazing. You know when Walter's coming back? I know he got hurt last year, did he tear his acl?

He was on the PUP list for the first 6 weeks so he can start practicing again. Probably unlikely he plays Thursday after 2/3 practices but most likely he'll play the following Sunday.

and the hawks just scored on arizona again! third worst beat down in the modern era, according to the seattle p-i.

8-5 and in the driver's seat for a wild card. @ buffalo, san fran, st. louis remaining... i just don't see seattle losing at home this year, so if they can get past a cross-country trip to buffalo...

2 games behind san fran, and the niners have to go to new england this week. if they lose/we win, and we take care of business at home, seattle could actually take the west.

wt3 is starting in place of browner.

Packers are winning the super bowl.

UOducksTK1 wrote:Packers are winning the super bowl.

packers might win a playoff game, at least.

maybe.

9-5 after blowing the doors off buffalo in canada. with tiebreaking/head-to-head wins over fellow wild card hopefuls in dallas, minnesota, and chicago, it would take an epic failure and all sorts of crazyness elsewhere to not make the playoffs, i think.

oregontrack wrote:9-5 after blowing the doors off buffalo in canada. with tiebreaking/head-to-head wins over fellow wild card hopefuls in dallas, minnesota, and chicago, it would take an epic failure and all sorts of crazyness elsewhere to not make the playoffs, i think.

Edit: They end with 2 tough games in *San Fran* and St Louis so it won't be easy and they will certainly have earned it. Also, Pete Carroll is not making any friends with his shenanigans in the past few weeks throwing the ball and fake punting when up by 20+ points in the 4th quarter.

agreed on the fake punt. i have no problem with the back-up qb getting some action the week before. these people are professionals.